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Anyone tried Towns, a greenlit Steam game now available?

Bulba

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sounds/looks interesting... has anyone played it?
 

Cool name

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There is a Let's Play of it on the Playground.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...towns-or-i-want-to-be-a-human-fortress.72315/

I have yet to play it myself. It does seem to have potential as a casual Dwarf Fortress inspired game.

It does seem friendlier than Dwarf Fortress. It does seem less complex too. That kind of misses the point. The combat descriptions are a bit drab. That also misses the point. It has fruits. I did like the fruits. It has hamster wheels with cows in them. I did not like those. When reading through the Let's Play all I could think about was about why to build houses on the surface if you can dig them up. I am probably missing something.
 

Berekän

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There's a big thread on the Bay12 forums.

In essence it's a more simple DF, it's trying to be more gamey than a simulation.I remember the last time I played there weren't any animations and everything looked horrid, that must've been from one of the first alphas. Don't know if they've changed it or it's still the same, but there wasn't much to do, you didn't have an objective to keep you advancing your village nor there was a more simulationist aproach, in the vein of invaders and such. The only thing that you could do was dig underground to fight some goblins and shit in the caves below the map. Might be a good game in the future, but IMO it looks like it needs a lot of development to reach the spot that other games have already filled.
 

Haba

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There have been several threads here as well. I'd say it is more Majesty than DF actually.

If they keep with the development pace, it can potentially be a better game than DF quite soon. A lot of work needs to be done though.
 

Livonya

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There is a free demo at the townsgame.com site.

I downloaded that and will give it a try tonight. I was curious about it.
 

Zewp

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There is a Let's Play of it on the Playground.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...towns-or-i-want-to-be-a-human-fortress.72315/

I have yet to play it myself. It does seem to have potential as a casual Dwarf Fortress inspired game.

It does seem friendlier than Dwarf Fortress. It does seem less complex too. That kind of misses the point. The combat descriptions are a bit drab. That also misses the point. It has fruits. I did like the fruits. It has hamster wheels with cows in them. I did not like those. When reading through the Let's Play all I could think about was about why to build houses on the surface if you can dig them up. I am probably missing something.

You can build underground house. You just dig caves and then designate the area as whatever you want it to be used for.
 

Cool name

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@ Haba: May I ask about why do you deem the game as being potentially better than Dwarf Fortress? It is not my intention to pick a fight or question your opinion. I am genuinely interested in what you saw in Towns that made you believe so.

@ Zewp: That's why I did not understand the point of building houses above ground. Who would want to live aboveground when he can have a nice and warm cave with a single and heavily fortified entrance the invaders are forced to use whether they like it or not? There are probably mechanics in place to ensure above ground towns are preferable but I do presently ignore them.
 

Angelo85

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TLDR major gripe is bold.

I played the Demo today until the time ran out. Indeed felt like DF lite to me. And more alarming it felt much less fun.

I think it felt less fun mainly due to the Hero mechanic and don't really having anything meaningful to do after a certain point/the game not requiring any player input whatsoever. I mean taking some "burden" from the player by automating tedious processes is fine, but I think Towns is taking it a bit too far. Beginning with the mid-game it feels like watching a Screensaver instead of playing a game. But let me rewind:

Basically what you do in the beginning is set up production lines for materials and food. You can also easily and very quickly automate these processes.
For example you can designate an area to plant new trees. Once the offspring is planted, every time the tree in that spot is chopped down, a new one will grow in the same spot automatically over (a very short period of) time. Then you tell the game "we need X wood in the stockpile at all time". Once this is done, you will never have to worry about gathering wood anymore.
You can also do this with the food production lines. If you play it smart and with a little bit of foresight (more people will eventually require more food, so build the automatic food production lines bigger than needed in the beginning. This doesn't take much time nor resources), you also won't really have to worry about food any longer. Except once you have more people you just tell the game "we need Y food instead of X food in the stockpile at all time", thanks to the bigger potential capacity/infrastructure you built in the beginning, this can be done literally in a matter of 5 seconds.

A handful of production lines are not available from the start (for example some new resources like iron are found within the first levels of the dungeon), but getting a new production line running is like I mentioned neither hard nor time consuming. A single workshop with a couple of workbenches for each resource/from each building type is enough for eternity.

Then you build houses (a couple more than you have population to attract new Townsfolk). And produce weapons/armor and outfit your townsfolk. You can also designate townsfolk to become soldiers. Like in DF you can assign soldiers to groups and set patrol routes. But now comes the Towns twist:

You also have to build a Tavern, which attracts heroes to your settlement. The difference between soldiers and heroes? Unlike soldiers, whose stats are solely defined by their equipment, heroes also level up and gain enhanced attributes and even new skills while doing so. Your soldiers - who you can control via waypoints - might be able to clear the first couple of levels from the dungeon, but deeper down they don't stand a chance and you have to rely on your heroes to kill the monsters there.
BUT here is the thing: you as player have zero control over heroes. They randomly either decide to venture into the underground dungeon, idle in the town or grab something to eat. You can't order the heroes to go somewhere specific via waypoints or some other mechanic (for example would have been neat to set rewards for slaying a specific monster or venture to level X of the dungeon - you know, the player having the role of a questgiver. Or open a shop where you sell produced goods/weapons/armor to them. At least that would have been kinda gamey). At this point in the game, the only thing left to do for you as player is to watch the game play itself until your heroes decide to go into the next level of the dungeon. You just watch the heroes do their thing and from time to time you dig one space into the next level of the dungeon and set up a 5-second build order for the new resource that is encountered on that level.

If the heroes encounter a new type of enemy they might drop some unique material from which you can craft better weapons/armor (once again, requiring 5 seconds of input to order something to be stockpiled/produced).

And then you get bored playing a screensaver. Judging from the LP there are occasional "invasions" but in my two games I played it never happened to me even though I my heroes went relatively deep into the dungeon. But I was prepared anyways: My settlement had only one entrance with traps and a garrison of soldiers standing idly by.

What you can do of course is build some more living space/houses to attract even more townsfolk/heroes or just mock about building some useless stuff like green stone walls instead of grey stone walls. But even that felt more fun in DF. Perhaps because DF gives you more decoration, building, and resources types to play with. And of course those memorable, occasional OMG/DRAMA/WTF moments. I didn't have a single one of those in Towns at all.
Even simple things like digging down and finding a cave in DF is exciting, as you wonder what might happen / what you stumble upon next. Not so much in Towns for me personally. Or building a golden tomb in honor of your heroic dwarven brother that fell in combat against a multiheaded dick. Once again I don't feel that urge in Towns.

Honestly, I really just sat there idly waiting for the heroes to go deeper without doing anything for about 15 minutes. Then they found Hobgoblinite (resource dropped from new monsters encountered), I set up production for new armor and Khopeshs with a couple mouse clicks, then sat idle for another 5 minutes or so. After production finished - getting kind of excited - I sent my soldiers equipped with those shiny new toys into the dungeon. Thinking the past dungeon levels might have been unbalanced/I was unlucky with resources. But nope, once again the soldiers didn't stand a chance and got slaughtered by a room full of enemies. I guess what you could actively do is look on previous dungeon levels for unexplored space and send your soldiers there, hoping they can deal with those lower level monsters thanks to new gear. What totally "clearing" those previous dungeon floors would do is ensure heroes going to the deepest available level (if they decide to enter the dungeon. not idling in town forever).

But yeah overall I have to say I'm not really blown away by Towns. I think I'll stick with DF for the time being.
 

Raghar

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@ Haba: May I ask about why do you deem the game as being potentially better than Dwarf Fortress?

It can't. DF is at level of insanity. As long as it's not as complex as DF, which has been developed with passion, it can't beat insanity, nor passion.
 

Haba

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@ Haba: May I ask about why do you deem the game as being potentially better than Dwarf Fortress?

It can't. DF is at level of insanity. As long as it's not as complex as DF, which has been developed with passion, it can't beat insanity, nor passion.

DF can be complex, but it will never be a good game. And this coming from someone who had supported the development in the past.

Towns, Gnomorria and the likes are currently lacking, but not that much. In comparison DF Fortress mode hasn't really improved at all since the transition from 2D to 3D. So year or two more and we'll have much better game than DF. Presuming that they don't make the same mistake as Toady and start focusing on irrelevant things instead of making the gameplay more fun.

I recently played a new game of DF after almost five years. The game still had the same faults as it did when I last played, but now it had more complexity and UI hassle (military/squad management is a fucking travesty) so you could spend even less time doing what was fun.
 

Raapys

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Meh, Towns is boring'ish. It has some potential, strictly from the general idea( i.e. dwarffortress gameplay) it's going for, but I'll give it another year before I bother. Right now it feels like an unfinished mess; makes DF feel like a polished AAA game. Whether it can someday beat DF depends on how long they can keep development going and whether or not Toady actually starts improving fortress mode instead of the almost-no-one-plays-it adventure mode.
 

Zewp

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Meh, Towns is boring'ish. It has some potential, strictly from the general idea( i.e. dwarffortress gameplay) it's going for, but I'll give it another year before I bother. Right now it feels like an unfinished mess; makes DF feel like a polished AAA game. Whether it can someday beat DF depends on how long they can keep development going and whether or not Toady actually starts improving fortress mode instead of the almost-no-one-plays-it adventure mode.

Pretty much why I decided to drop it until the full release. I bought it in February, but I haven't played it since March.
 

Konjad

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Gnomoria is the only DF clone that has the potential to overcome it's master. Towns is for tards not being able to overcome any kind of challenge.
 

Bulba

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Is it easy? if the game provides any sort of challenge like random monster appearing and mass murdering 95% of pops or destroying everything now and then it might be fun to play
 

Zewp

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I would be busy playing Gnomoria if it didn't have such giant memory leaks. I mostly game on my netbook between classes nowadays, and it simply crashes every few minutes.
 

Zewp

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Is it easy? if the game provides any sort of challenge like random monster appearing and mass murdering 95% of pops or destroying everything now and then it might be fun to play

Well, I once dug into some dungeons and spiders started swarming out, killing everyone in my village because I didn't have warriors or heroes.
 

Fens

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Gnomoria is the only DF clone that has the potential to overcome it's master.
gnomoria is quite fun, unfortunately i keep running into things DF does better (like the fine tuning your world stuff). i just wish DF would get gnomoria's UI and maybe graphics
 

Konjad

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Gnomoria is the only DF clone that has the potential to overcome it's master.
gnomoria is quite fun, unfortunately i keep running into things DF does better (like the fine tuning your world stuff). i just wish DF would get gnomoria's UI and maybe graphics
True, however Gnomoria is quite fresh and devs are working on it lighting fast. Toady in DF doesn't work as fast as far as I can tell and he emphasizes useless and obscure shit (falling leaves from the trees, while so many parts of the game are still broken?!), so I can easily expect that Gnomoria devs are going to catch up with DF at some point.
 

Fens

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gnomoria is quite fun, unfortunately i keep running into things DF does better (like the fine tuning your world stuff). i just wish DF would get gnomoria's UI and maybe graphics
True, however Gnomoria is quite fresh and devs are working on it lighting fast. Toady in DF doesn't work as fast as far as I can tell and he emphasizes useless and obscure shit (falling leaves from the trees, while so many parts of the game are still broken?!), so I can easily expect that Gnomoria devs are going to catch up with DF at some point.
wouldn't mind if they did... and true about toady moving at glacial pace

both (DF with gnomorian UI and gnomoria with DF depth) would be fine with me, i just think that adding a decent UI to DF would be a lot easier, should toady start to give a damn about it
 

Anthony Davis

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I wouldn't say the game is hard, though you can screw up and make things hard. For example, if you get half your starting people wiped out because you sent them to chop wood near the from men it will be slow going.

I actually had something worse than that happen. I guess I was clear cutting too much and some sort of Tree God, which looked like a tree, proceeded to murderize all my townies. Oh well.

I think it will be boring if they don't keep working on it. After spending more time on it, I think I would say it is closer to Terraria than DF - though it has similarities with both.
 

Haba

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http://www.townsgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10615

So, what happend: no way around it, as some of you have probably guessed, we got burnt out. we came to a point where we mindlessly worked like crazy on some features (Gods and Events) and in the middle of it all, the steam sale happend, not the summer sale, but the one before it. it drove around a large quantity of new players and with those new players, came the realization that our game is completely and utterly unfriendly to newcomers, to the point it tries to drive them away. that some of our base mechanics are not complete and that we need to stop everything and like a painter that takes a step back to look at his painting, we need to refresh our perspective. we have been playing and developing the game for so long now (two years and two months, this week) that we have lost track of what we wanted from the first place and just jumped from feature to feature

'k.

So so far Towns has sold more than 200k units and generated a gross revenue of more than 2M usd. and although we are pretty sure we can and will sell a lot more, we still see it as a huge success.

Hi there toady! How much you've made with your donations so far? :roll:
 

Johannes

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So if this was balanced to be much harder (collecting resources wouldn't be trivial but you'd have to be mindful of how you distribute your work force) and the heroes put into a smaller part compared to the soldiers, this could be a solid game?



Looking at DF is just sad these days. There's been almost no real improvement to the game since years and years, yet all the Bay12 forum regulars keep raving every time a stupid pointless bloat feature is added. And Toady is a stupid autist who'll probably keep going on at this rate for however long the donations can afford him to pay rent and noodles.
 

Gord

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Looking at DF is just sad these days. There's been almost no real improvement to the game since years and years, yet all the Bay12 forum regulars keep raving every time a stupid pointless bloat feature is added. And Toady is a stupid autist who'll probably keep going on at this rate for however long the donations can afford him to pay rent and noodles.

Yeah, DF could be so much more if it would offer a better UI and user friendliness.
I recently bought Gnomoria, which does basic DF quite well, even though it lacks some of the cool features of DF, like moods, huge world with history, a good portion of the emergent gameplay and all that.
 

Johannes

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Looking at DF is just sad these days. There's been almost no real improvement to the game since years and years, yet all the Bay12 forum regulars keep raving every time a stupid pointless bloat feature is added. And Toady is a stupid autist who'll probably keep going on at this rate for however long the donations can afford him to pay rent and noodles.

Yeah, DF could be so much more if it would offer a better UI and user friendliness.
I recently bought Gnomoria, which does basic DF quite well, even though it lacks some of the cool features of DF, like moods, huge world with history, a good portion of the emergent gameplay and all that.
Not just the UI, but some proper challenge to the game would be nice. You get tons of legendary dwarves in no time if you want, invasions are easily fended off with proper trap layouts, when you know the game people turn into making all these mega projects to have something to do, but I'm not interested in raising giant phalluses to the sky, especially when the micro in that would be even worse than handling a normal fort.
 

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