The Gentleman Loser
Novice
Dying... evolving... how about Devolving?
RTS was to wargames what modern popamole "RPGs" are to classical RPGs. Decline.felipepepe said:Now I'm curious. Whats your point?Awor Szurkrarz said:Yes, that's precisely what I'm talking about.felipepepe said:RTS = Real Time Strategy (Starcraft, Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, etc).Awor Szurkrarz said:It has something to do with RTS genre being a part of the downfall.felipepepe said:On related news, I would say RTS genre have managed to survive really well the "downfall of Pc Gaming",
The Gentleman Loser said:Dying... evolving... how about Devolving?
Unkillable Cat said:The Gentleman Loser said:Dying... evolving... how about Devolving?
No, but only because you're using the wrong word. Look up Devolution in a dictionary or Wikipedia to see why.
The proper, unmistakable term is "de-evolution".
Awor Szurkrarz said:RTS was to wargames what modern popamole "RPGs" are to classical RPGs. Decline.felipepepe said:Now I'm curious. Whats your point?Awor Szurkrarz said:Yes, that's precisely what I'm talking about.felipepepe said:RTS = Real Time Strategy (Starcraft, Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, etc).Awor Szurkrarz said:It has something to do with RTS genre being a part of the downfall.felipepepe said:On related news, I would say RTS genre have managed to survive really well the "downfall of Pc Gaming",
Also, the whole idea of taking a strategic game in real time? We're talking about games where a turn last a week+ and units are whole divisions. Then you end up with stuff like rocket infantry unit needing 100 or something attacks to destroy a harvester unit, except that unlike in a real strategic game, the harvester unit doesn't lose any of its effectiveness when losing strength.
The Gentleman Loser said:Funny enough once 3D and a Gun is involved, people can't seem to account for stats at all. People complain about the shooting in games like "Deus Ex", "Mass Effect (1)", "Alpha Protocol", and "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines" often because the gun play does not work like in most first or third-person shooters. The cone of fire effect confuses people, even in the games with the clearly drawn slowly closing cross hairs. People seem to misunderstand what is happening, and why.
It seems having stats-based aiming and a real-time 3D environment will never work hand-in-hand... or at least not to peoples expectations.
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Oh, your sig reminds me... remember when they used to say "non-linear"?
Now they say C&C, and half the time it's just leading to the things you got listed there... and also usually all the Choices are made in dialogue. Not enough games have non-linearity through game play anymore. What ever happened to "actions speak louder than words"?
Even worse most games just have the "BIG CHOICE!" right at the end. It's like a footnote.
"Psst... whose side do you want to be on for this final fight? One side will instantly forgive you for everything, and the other will despise you despite all the good you have done. Be sure to save now so you can see both endings just by reloading and replaying this fight! Don't worry about anything before this moment, we've gone ahead and made it all trivial. Now... choose your immediate consequence!"
And that pretty much sums it up. It's supposed to be Choice and Consequences, but the consequences are so predictable it becomes "Choose your Consequences" instead.
circ said:... There are like two remaining RTS developers, Relic and Blizzard, and Blizzard just keeps doing sequels with very little innovation. Then there's C&C, but EA killed that. It has nothing interesting in it anymore, though I liked C&C Generals. And MS killed whatever the AOE studio was called. As for Relic, well, Retribution was fun, and had more new features than DA 2, even though the release cycles were pretty much the same, and it's a fucking standalone addon, unlike DA 2, which shouldn't be even called that, but a DLC. But Retribution's heavily geared towards MP, so.
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The proper term is DEVO!Unkillable Cat said:The Gentleman Loser said:Dying... evolving... how about Devolving?
No, but only because you're using the wrong word. Look up Devolution in a dictionary or Wikipedia to see why.
The proper, unmistakable term is "de-evolution".
circ said:The proper term is DEVO!Unkillable Cat said:The Gentleman Loser said:Dying... evolving... how about Devolving?
No, but only because you're using the wrong word. Look up Devolution in a dictionary or Wikipedia to see why.
The proper, unmistakable term is "de-evolution".
Dark Omen was Real-Time. Except that unlike Command & Conquer, Starcraft, etc. it was a tactical Real Time Simulation, not Real Time Strategy.felipepepe said:Awor Szurkrarz said:RTS was to wargames what modern popamole "RPGs" are to classical RPGs. Decline.felipepepe said:Now I'm curious. Whats your point?Awor Szurkrarz said:Yes, that's precisely what I'm talking about.felipepepe said:RTS = Real Time Strategy (Starcraft, Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, etc).Awor Szurkrarz said:It has something to do with RTS genre being a part of the downfall.felipepepe said:On related news, I would say RTS genre have managed to survive really well the "downfall of Pc Gaming",
Also, the whole idea of taking a strategic game in real time? We're talking about games where a turn last a week+ and units are whole divisions. Then you end up with stuff like rocket infantry unit needing 100 or something attacks to destroy a harvester unit, except that unlike in a real strategic game, the harvester unit doesn't lose any of its effectiveness when losing strength.
Yeah, I see your point, sad but true...Series like Steel Panther have vanished, and even more "modern" ones, like Warhammer: Dark Omen (my favorite strategic game) have been abandoned/dumbed-down in favor of Real-Time...
Tactical shooters? You mean like Counterstrike?AlaCarcuss said:Conversely, and I don't know how many times this has to be said, DOW 2 and it's expansions are NOT RTS, they don't even resemble an RTS so I don't know why people keep referring to them as such (because DOW 1 was RTS?). They are squad based tactical shooters with some RPG elements for good measure. I don't mind - I think they're great, especially the two expansions, but NOT RTS.
Not just the "new" RPG fans, either. As an old RPG fan, I didn't care for it either. The real reason we don't care for it is simple: When you set up and visibly SEE the headshot, there is the reasonable expectation that it should thus RESPOND like a headshot. There isn't any such expectation in "classic" RPGs because you never see it: In "classic" games, a possibly not-animated-at-all sprite possibly makes a stabbing motion in the general direction of an enemy sprite, which may react to this by flashing. You are then told damage was inflicted. Since you didn't SEE the guy get stabbed through the face, you have no reason to expect him to react as such.Joe Krow said:Games like Morrowind and Bloodlines (two modern examples) stayed true to RPGs roots by basing the combat on character attributes. Unfortunately, the new RPG fans didn't like that. The game was not responding in the way it would in a pure action game... the character would either miss or do minimal damage despite the head-shot.
So your problem with RTS's is that they are too abstract? That's not the same as difference as between old- and newschool RPGs at all.Awor Szurkrarz said:RTS was to wargames what modern popamole "RPGs" are to classical RPGs. Decline.
Also, the whole idea of taking a strategic game in real time? We're talking about games where a turn last a week+ and units are whole divisions. Then you end up with stuff like rocket infantry unit needing 100 or something attacks to destroy a harvester unit, except that unlike in a real strategic game, the harvester unit doesn't lose any of its effectiveness when losing strength.
hoverdog said:come on, eschalon was like a roguelike with better graphics and a (generic) story but without all the things that make roguelikes playable. atrocious, atrocious game.Dr.Faust said:Arcanoix said:Risen - Shitty.
Witcher - Click, click, click, sex, click, click, click, sex.
AoD - Vaporware.
Eschalon - What?
FO:NV - INCLINE.
MoTB - Awesome pickup to a shitty story. (the OC)
Your opinions on RPGs mean jack shit if you don't know what the Eschalon books are. Especially since the opinions are so wrong.
Awor Szurkrarz said:Tactical shooters? You mean like Counterstrike?AlaCarcuss said:Conversely, and I don't know how many times this has to be said, DOW 2 and it's expansions are NOT RTS, they don't even resemble an RTS so I don't know why people keep referring to them as such (because DOW 1 was RTS?). They are squad based tactical shooters with some RPG elements for good measure. I don't mind - I think they're great, especially the two expansions, but NOT RTS.
Awor Szurkrarz said:From what I've seen, the combat is the same as in DoW. And combat in DoW still has the same RTS gimmicks that were derived strategic games. You still get super-tough units, you still get short range of sight, etc.
It's not a true tactical game. It's RTS minus the base building part (Real Time Operational ?).