Are we an RPG Discussion website or a Free Speech website?

[Greek Anime God]

by private company i meant a mom + pop store, someone's self-employment, that kinsda thing -- distinctly not a corporation. sorry, could've been more clear.

Don't make apologies if you meant something else. I've just heard similar lines from neoliberals far too many times and they never mean the small-scale economy that is much more fair than corporate monopolies.

though overall i was talking about what the concept actually referred to, not what it should mean.

I don't think the idea is applicable to any should. If you are free you don't have to get permission from anyone to speak freely. That is what genuine freedom is. Enshrining that in a bill of rights does nothing.

nothing at all, it's Da Best

You're in my good books again.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What is a "Reddit tier opinion"?

Because this isn't a physical space like a library where someone is actually talking over you, and you can skip posts and conversations about things you don't want to read, this attempt at looking like a victim who is forced to interact with everything makes it feel like the problem is more about how you guys can't resist getting involved with the "unrelated bullshit" and you don't like what it says about you.

Also, giving it back to ya: if you don't like those games and they upset you (as in the general "you")... just don't play them?

I'll think about it.

 

[Theodora]

Greek Anime God im just going to be succinct and say I agree with 90% of this but contort my posts on here because when I write very directly they’re systematically misunderstood.

kinda ironic really, but it’s nice to see others for whom negating things like human rights isn’t from a place of trolling or cruelty, but simply because they’re spooky nonsense with no tangible reality than can be taken away at any time. (ie a waste of energy, and basically a lie.)

 

[DraQ]

Yes! Good to meet another sane human in the asylum Some people's idea of "free speech" is apparently being able to walk up to someone and start shouting obscenities in their face. There's no hope for people who can't see the difference between not being prosecuted for discussing one's ideas in a (relatively) civilised manner versus being a massive dick.

I can work with lack of civility, actually I don't like enforced civility because in practice it tends to turn into total shitshow on day one, but the lack of actual ideas is a showstopper.

But really, the influx of such problematic people can be easily explained: they have been kicked out of pretty much every other gaming forum in existence that have some minimum standard of behaviour, hence their only option is to join the codex, more or less. Now, the real question, does the codex want to be a refugee camp for the antisocial lunatic fringe? I would say no to that.

This is the problem, yes.

Except it's a website and you don't have to engage with anyone or read their posts. Reddit tier opinion, but at least you didn't use a food analogy

Even if you don't engage, screaming chimps pelting each other with shit kind of get in the way.

they have been kicked out of pretty much every other gaming forum in existence that have some minimum standard of behaviour

Like Felipepe getting banned from NeoGaf when he referred to himself as a newfag.

...and that's exactly why Codex is needed as a refuge from this sort of lunacy, not a madhouse full of the opposite kind.

And that's why "muh nword filter!" solution solves nothing.

We should have healthy enough culture to safely absorb members saying all sorts of shit. Actually, we should have it back, because we had one once.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Even if you don't engage, screaming chimps pelting each other with shit kind of get in the way.

No they don't, they're not occupying a physical space in the library. Takes less effort to skip conversations than to read them. I skip china numbah wan posts all the time.

Unless, like I said, the problem is feeling the temptation to pick a turd and fling it back.

 

[Gastrick]

they have been kicked out of pretty much every other gaming forum in existence that have some minimum standard of behaviour

Like Felipepe getting banned from NeoGaf when he referred to himself as a newfag.

...and that's exactly why Codex is needed as a refuge from this sort of lunacy, not a madhouse full of the opposite kind.

And that's why "muh nword filter!" solution solves nothing.

We should have healthy enough culture to safely absorb members saying all sorts of shit. Actually, we should have it back, because we had one once.

The Codex is a refuge from moderation lunacy, where you can post whatever you please and only have taboos in the way.

Mad users are more entertaining than boring ones and often contribute more to discussions. Many people wouldn't fit it as well if this were a more normie-like site. I know I wouldn't.

The way to improve the Codex is by posting what is wrong and what would improve discussions. Like with The Wall posting how discord habits ruined forum posting, or by pressuring people to play more RPGs.

 

[Owlish]

Also, giving it back to ya: if you don't like those games and they upset you (as in the general "you")... just don't play them?

That's all games.

This is one forum of many. Almost all other forums cater to your sensibilities and aggressively police wrongthink and insensitive humor.

And what do you mean by "influx"? You joined in 2020, queer.

 

[Skinwalker]

What about domestic violence, child abuse, worker exploitation, modern day slavery, and I could go on with other topics that are 1000 times more important than whether XYZ game has some OPTIONAL bullshit pronouns

It's always OPTIONAL. At first.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

You actually don't need to put a space after a username expression, it will work with a comma or a dot after it,

If you say so, Maxie, I'll take your word for it.
Wow, it works. Nice.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

don't know man. I've been silently following this site over the last 10 years, and there's definitely a change in tone and attitude over the last couple of years (for the worse, from my point of view). I'm here for discussing games, and that's it. As a person who doesn't hate any specific group of people, I find the many casual xenophobic, homophobic, racist, white-supremacist, etc. remarks quite off-putting and in bad taste. I'm just talking about common decency here. I wouldn't like to have a "discussion" in real life either when half the people are shouting at each other, calling each other names and stuff like that.

Hello, fellow RPG Codexians! I know I have a join date that would indicate that I am a 2020 newfag, but I am in fact a very old lurker! As a distinguished oldfag, boy, am I sure tired of all this XENOPHOBIC, HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST, WHITE-SUPREMACIST, CRYPTO-PATRIARCHIAL toxicity! Can't we all just get along and be nice? We shouldn't call each other names! We should calmly discuss our differences, like the good folks over at Neogaf and ResetEra. While I'm at it, can't we all stop being so mean to new games? I mean, good golly, just let people enjoy things, guys!

 

[Rincewind]

don't know man. I've been silently following this site over the last 10 years, and there's definitely a change in tone and attitude over the last couple of years (for the worse, from my point of view). I'm here for discussing games, and that's it. As a person who doesn't hate any specific group of people, I find the many casual xenophobic, homophobic, racist, white-supremacist, etc. remarks quite off-putting and in bad taste. I'm just talking about common decency here. I wouldn't like to have a "discussion" in real life either when half the people are shouting at each other, calling each other names and stuff like that.

Hello, fellow RPG Codexians! I know I have a join date that would indicate that I am a 2020 newfag, but I am in fact a very old lurker! As a distinguished oldfag, boy, am I sure tired of all this XENOPHOBIC, HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST, WHITE-SUPREMACIST, CRYPTO-PATRIARCHIAL toxicity! Can't we all just get along and be nice? We shouldn't call each other names! We should calmly discuss our differences, like the good folks over at Neogaf and ResetEra. While I'm at it, can't we all stop being so mean to new games? I mean, good golly, just let people enjoy things, guys!

Yes, can't we?

 

[jebsmoker]

don't know man. I've been silently following this site over the last 10 years, and there's definitely a change in tone and attitude over the last couple of years (for the worse, from my point of view). I'm here for discussing games, and that's it. As a person who doesn't hate any specific group of people, I find the many casual xenophobic, homophobic, racist, white-supremacist, etc. remarks quite off-putting and in bad taste. I'm just talking about common decency here. I wouldn't like to have a "discussion" in real life either when half the people are shouting at each other, calling each other names and stuff like that.

Hello, fellow RPG Codexians! I know I have a join date that would indicate that I am a 2020 newfag, but I am in fact a very old lurker! As a distinguished oldfag, boy, am I sure tired of all this XENOPHOBIC, HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST, WHITE-SUPREMACIST, CRYPTO-PATRIARCHIAL toxicity! Can't we all just get along and be nice? We shouldn't call each other names! We should calmly discuss our differences, like the good folks over at Neogaf and ResetEra. While I'm at it, can't we all stop being so mean to new games? I mean, good golly, just let people enjoy things, guys!

gimmick accounts like these are so incredibly boring because you can detect what it is from a mile away

 

[Fowyr]

I'd say when you have 10-page long useless noise about SJW bullshit in a game announcement thread, then we have a problem. The funny thing is that I don't care about SWJ shit, I don't use Twitter, I don't see any trans people or whatever they're called these days where I live (I see gay couples maybe once in 3 months, and that's it), so ironically if it wasn't for the codex, I would be completely "ignorant" of these "issues". I just don't care for this shit, I'm here to read about games, okay?

Maybe you should try playing them instead of just reading. From the top of my head:

Now compare it to the totally unacceptable today jokes from Megatraveller 2.
EDIT: Fuck, even Edwin's quest from that pretty recent game, BG2, would never be written today.

PPS:

The last hundred of posts sound really weird~

We need the 'lah' rating. I know, I'm missing thousand clicks or two, but I read your post and HK47's with the same voice in my head.
P.P.P.S: Mendeleev was right. Distilling spirits is a really pinnacle of agriculture.

 

[Rincewind]

I'd say when you have 10-page long useless noise about SJW bullshit in a game announcement thread, then we have a problem. The funny thing is that I don't care about SWJ shit, I don't use Twitter, I don't see any trans people or whatever they're called these days where I live (I see gay couples maybe once in 3 months, and that's it), so ironically if it wasn't for the codex, I would be completely "ignorant" of these "issues". I just don't care for this shit, I'm here to read about games, okay?

Maybe you should try playing them instead of just reading. From the top of my head:

Now compare it to the totally unacceptable today jokes from Megatraveller 2.

Yeah ok, granted that's weird enough for me, but why does it matter if it's like 1% of the total game content? I played a few recentish games lately (Naheulbeuk, Disco Elysium), and those don't have any trans stuff, for example. So dunno, seems a bit disingenious to say that it's such a big problem when you have to go out of your way to find such cases? How I see it it's a fad in games that's going to pass.

 

[Zlaja]

I'd say when you have 10-page long useless noise about SJW bullshit in a game announcement thread, then we have a problem

I've seen page upon page of discussions about "sjw bullshit" in many game threads on sites as mainstream as gamefaqs. But hey, let's pretend this only happens at the Codex.

The funny thing is that I don't care about SWJ shit, I don't use Twitter, I don't see any trans people or whatever they're called these days where I live (I see gay couples maybe once in 3 months, and that's it), so ironically if it wasn't for the codex, I would be completely "ignorant" of these "issues"

Well, I assume you haven't seen any terrorist attacks happen in your backyard, so I guess that's not a thing worth bringing up either. Or violent gang crime. Or natural disasters. "I don't see it around me, so shut up about it, troll".

What about domestic violence, child abuse, worker exploitation, modern day slavery,

There's been plenty of discussions about the likes of child abuse and scumbag behaviours by corporations on the Codex over the years. And a million other topics as well.

or whether the female protagonists has or hasn't big enough tits for your taste

These days people complain about devs/publishers pushing an agenda of only designing either plane or/and tranny looking female characters. How this has escaped you is beyond me. It's VERY noticable, even if you try to not let it bother you too much.

We should have healthy enough culture to safely absorb members saying all sorts of shit. Actually, we should have it back, because we had one once

While GD may be more "edgy" then it used to in the past, the gaming discussions are pretty tame these days compared to old days. I remember people dunking on those with "questionable" taste/opinions more brutal in the past.

 

[Gastrick]

don't know man. I've been silently following this site over the last 10 years, and there's definitely a change in tone and attitude over the last couple of years (for the worse, from my point of view). I'm here for discussing games, and that's it. As a person who doesn't hate any specific group of people, I find the many casual xenophobic, homophobic, racist, white-supremacist, etc. remarks quite off-putting and in bad taste. I'm just talking about common decency here. I wouldn't like to have a "discussion" in real life either when half the people are shouting at each other, calling each other names and stuff like that.

Hello, fellow RPG Codexians! I know I have a join date that would indicate that I am a 2020 newfag, but I am in fact a very old lurker! As a distinguished oldfag, boy, am I sure tired of all this XENOPHOBIC, HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST, WHITE-SUPREMACIST, CRYPTO-PATRIARCHIAL toxicity! Can't we all just get along and be nice? We shouldn't call each other names! We should calmly discuss our differences, like the good folks over at Neogaf and ResetEra. While I'm at it, can't we all stop being so mean to new games? I mean, good golly, just let people enjoy things, guys!

I remember thinking when I first joined, how odd it was that the Codex wasn't getting these types of SJWs with last year join dates who are only there to complain about how much freedom of speech a site has. I was used to seeing them on the other sites. I thought it was just to do with the Codex being niche, but I really just had a wait longer. I suspect Rincewind is in a far-left discord group or private chat that is devoted to censorship of "hateful" opinions online. Like the zionist group I was investigating, Act-IL, but more broad in scope to cover forums. He may not be the only one.

 

[Fowyr]

Yeah ok, granted that's weird enough for me, but why does it matter if it's like 1% of the total game content? I played a few recentish games lately (Naheulbeuk, Disco Elysium), and those don't have any trans stuff, for example. So dunno, seems a bit disingenious to say that it's such a big problem when you have to go out of your way to find such cases? How I see it it's a fad in games that's going to pass.

Disco Elysium? The game that was made by guys from ex-USSR country? Color me impressed! (not)
Well, man. I'm drunk and I love Dark Heart of Uukrul to the bits, so I gonna give you a real answer. It just approximately 0.000001% of shit that they going to do with our hobby. It's not some cherry-picked shit, they are everywhere (still, kudos to Owlcat for making AP's unabashed Amber E Scott's tranny a low-key tranny NPC that divulges its secret after a lot of diplomacy checks.) Resist. Think. Make a real food storage. Start writing your own game. We are fucked.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Imagine the codex being a public library: everybody is welcome, and even if you have heated arguments, you won't get kicked out. UNLESS you start thrashing the place, make a campfire in the middle of the room, get into fistfights, etc. There has to be some minimum standard, otherwise what you're advocating is basically total anarchy.

I suppose you can back up this analogy with vivid examples of selected KKKodex threads displaying such behaviour?

 

[Fowyr]

Imagine the codex being a public library: everybody is welcome, and even if you have heated arguments, you won't get kicked out. UNLESS you start thrashing the place, make a campfire in the middle of the room, get into fistfights, etc. There has to be some minimum standard, otherwise what you're advocating is basically total anarchy.

I suppose you can back up this analogy with vivid examples of selected KKKodex threads displaying such behaviour?

Yep, I remember threads where even Oblivion-loving subhumans felt yourself at home.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

We need the 'lah' rating. I know, I'm missing thousand clicks or two, but I read your post and HK47's with the same voice in my head.

I KNEW I was not the only one.

 

[Rincewind]

I've seen page upon page of discussions about "sjw bullshit" in many game threads on sites as mainstream as gamefaqs. But hey, let's pretend this only happens at the Codex.

I don't really check any other gaming forums than the codex, so I literally have no idea what's going on in those forums. I'm mostly interested in oldschool RPGs, and this is still the best place for discussing those games. That is why it saddens me to see the signal to noise ratio getting worse lately. Moreover, I really wouldn't like the codex just to disappear, along with the immense amount of historical knowledge accumulated here on those older games, just because some people keep behaving like total idiots.

Well, I assume you haven't seen any terrorist attacks happen in your backyard, so I guess that's not a thing worth bringing up either.

Well, but it's a bit insane to constantly worry about things that *might* happen to you... perhaps... someday... I see that kind of thinking here a lot: some trannies appear in a few games, people start extrapolating a trend from that and come up with all sorts of outrageous theories, then start getting increasingly worried about it, and so on. To me, that's just a crazy way to live, in general. Like the saying goes: if you can fix it, there's no need to worry. And if you can't, worry is of no use.

These days people complain about devs/publishers pushing an agenda of only designing either plane or/and tranny looking female characters. How this has escaped you is beyond me.

I don't play every new game, man... Like I said, last recentish one I played was Dungeon of Naheulbeuk, the elf was chick was curvy looking enough for me (for a cartoon character). It also a had a number of jokes you could call "sexist" these days (even though most of them are a bit on the juvenile side).

Spoiler

Anyway, like I said, my main concern (if I'm concerned about anything related to the codex) is that a minority of posters would cause the codex to be shut down for good. And I would prefer if that didn't happen. But anyway, I've wasted way too much time "debating" this here already. Very much doubt it that this would change the behaviour of the problematic elements here the slightest.

 

[Rincewind]

I'm drunk and I love Dark Heart of Uukrul to the bits, so I gonna give you a real answer. It just approximately 0.000001% of shit that they going to do with our hobby. It's not some cherry-picked shit, they are everywhere (still, kudos to Owlcat for making AP's unabashed Amber E Scott's tranny a low-key tranny NPC that divulges its secret after a lot of diplomacy checks.) Resist. Think. Make a real food storage. Start writing your own game. We are fucked.

How I see it, there are much bigger problems with most new games than the trannies, for example getting the gameplay good and not just focus on graphics/cinematics, for a start.
But we both liked Uukrul, so let's leave it at that.

 

[Fowyr]

[ I'm mostly interested in oldschool RPGs, and this is still the best place for discussing those games. That is why it saddens me to see the signal to noise ratio getting worse lately. Moreover, I really wouldn't like the codex just to disappear, along with the immense amount of historical knowledge accumulated here on those older games, just because some people keep behaving like total idiots.

Can't you really understand, that most of this "historical knowledge" was provided to you by the same guys, that joked about jigaboos and Saint Skittles at the same time?

 

[Ol' Willy]

Anyway, like I said, my main concern (if I'm concerned about anything related to the codex) is that a minority of posters would cause the codex to be shut down for good.

To elaborate on the post above: if you want quality information on good ol'school RPGs people like Mondblut or Fowyr are your best choice. Cleve is a dev himself and has unique insight into the industry.

Yet all of them would be removed based on your "advice"

 

[jebsmoker]

Anyway, like I said, my main concern (if I'm concerned about anything related to the codex) is that a minority of posters would cause the codex to be shut down for good. And I would prefer if that didn't happen. But anyway, I've wasted way too much time "debating" this here already. Very much doubt it that this would change the behaviour of the problematic elements here the slightest.

i strongly disagree with any political ideology that reduces any racial group to a tool for beating other groups into submission (i.e. wokeism or whitenat) but i don't think crying out for their censorship would produce anything meaningful here