Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon

[Lord of Riva]

I love me some mech action, I really like the series and I am happy it's returning.

 

[Ash]

Can someone explain what's the appeal? As someone that has steered clear of mech combat games, I am curious.

Some things I am apprehensive of:

Gun combat, but lock-on auto aim. Yuck.
Infinite jetpacks removes most relevance of verticality (e.g no watching your footing when fighting near falls/cliff edges, no platforming, no climbing, no limitations/flow/complexity in level design created by elevation differences).

But that is not to say every game with guns needs manual aiming, nor every game needs verticality relevance. But it does need focus in something, and I struggle to identify what the fuck that even is? The combat looks even blander than Souls (souls combat is good but overrated as it is very simple).

I want to support this game, FROM are great (well, now they are, didn't use to be in 90s & 2000s in my book), and they are trying their hand at more niche genres which is great in an age where everything is a homogenized blur, but it doesn't LOOK like it is for me, but I know full well looks can be deceiving and you should, ideally, give games a chance; games with any degree of complexity are hard to understand until you have played them or similar extensively.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Can someone explain what's the appeal? As someone that has steered clear of mech combat games, I am curious.

Some things I am apprehensive of:

Gun combat, but lock-on auto aim. Yuck.
Infinite jetpacks removes most relevance of verticality (e.g no watching your footing when fighting near falls/cliff edges, no platforming, no climbing, no limitations/flow/complexity in level design created by elevation differences).

But that is not to say every game with guns needs manual aiming, nor every game needs verticality relevance. But it does need focus in something, and I struggle to identify what the fuck that even is?

I want to support this game, FROM are great (well, now they are, didn't use to be in 90s & 2000s in my book), and they are trying their hand at more niche genres which is great in an age where everything is a homogenized blur, but it doesn't LOOK like it is for me, but I know full well looks can be deceiving and you should, ideally, give games a chance; games with any degree of complexity are hard to understand until you have played them or similar extensively.

Why won't you just try other games in the series? The series is gigantic, in fact it's not from software "trying their hand at a more niche genre" it's the other way around, the souls series is the niche one, spawning somehow from King's field and evergrace. Not disputing of course that the souls series has been vastly more successful, it's just AC is From Softs mainstay.

 

[Ash]

Action RPG, swords and sorcery is not even remotely niche. Souls/kings field as an IP is or was, sure, but as a gameplay concept, everyone knows the deal. That's what I am talking about. "Souls like" in particular is a new concept to some (PC-only + modern gamers), but those types of games have been around for decades on consoles in some form. I would also mention Severance and a couple other PC classics but they have quicksaving which may just be what disqualifies them from the same tier of monocle.

I don't want to spend a few hours trying to understand something I may not like. Spill the beans. What the hell is this shit about? What's the gameplay appeal? If this series has a fanbase because of feeling, e.g childhood fantasies of piloting a mech, or because the game is like their favorite anime/transformers, then it can fuck off. I want to know if it has gameplay substance.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Action RPG, swords and sorcery is not even remotely niche. Souls/kings field as an IP is or was, sure, but as a gameplay concept, everyone knows the deal. That's what I am talking about. "Souls like" in particular is a new concept to some, but those types of games have been around for decades on consoles in some form.

I don't want to spend a few hours trying to understand something I may not like. Spill the beans. What the hell is this shit about? What's the gameplay appeal? If this series has a fanbase because of feeling, e.g childhood fantasies of piloting a mech, or because the game is like their favorite anime/transformers, then it can fuck off. I want to know if it has gameplay substance.

Imo, watch that Iron Pineapple video I linked above. He gives a pretty thorough discussion of the new game.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Action RPG, swords and sorcery is not even remotely niche. Souls/kings field as an IP is or was, sure, but as a gameplay concept, everyone knows the deal. That's what I am talking about. "Souls like" in particular is a new concept to some (PC-only + modern gamers), but those types of games have been around for decades on consoles in some form. I would also mention Severance and a couple other PC classics but they have quicksaving which may just be what disqualifies them from the same tier of monocle.

I don't want to spend a few hours trying to understand something I may not like. Spill the beans. What the hell is this shit about? What's the gameplay appeal? If this series has a fanbase because of feeling, e.g childhood fantasies of piloting a mech, or because the game is like their favorite anime/transformers, then it can fuck off. I want to know if it has gameplay substance.

uh of course the... I am not even sure how to apply that here... genre is not niche but From softs games are always uh... wierd. Go play those as well, some of them are for good reason not well known.

Just watch the video before I type down some shit it has nothing to with anime/transformer or childhood fantasy though. Mechwarrior was always a better mech simulation, Armored core is an mission based Action game with pretty cool customisation.

 

[Anonona]

Gun combat, but lock-on auto aim. Yuck

Can't say how the new one will be, but in the old games you have to keep the enemy on your aiming recticle, which size could change depending on what target system you toke. Then each weapon had stats like their efective range, maximun range, speed of lock-on, etc. Add the fact that AC could boost all around, fly and break the lock-on using the environment it actually led to interest gameplay where movement and tracking your oponent was very important, as well as managing your ammo, energy and position.

Infinite jetpacks

Unless is different in AC6, there is no infinite jetpack. Each generator have an amount of energy and different speeds of energy recovering. If you try to fly infinitely you will end up without boosters for quite a while. And being a sitting duck against another AC meant you where dead, a barrage of missiles was very dangerous. It was so important than old AC games required you to use "bunnyhopping" to be able to fight effectively and dodge, and you had to be careful while falling down because landing without boosters let you immobile for a few seconds, which again, usually gave your enemies time to fuck you up.

There is also a kind of simulationist aspect to the games. It does a good job at making you feel like you are piloting a hunking bulk of metal.

That said, I'm only speaking of my experiences with old AC, may not be accurate with the new one, though the lock on system still requires you to mantain cerain distances depending of your weapon, as mediocrepoet said, Iron Pinapple video explains it.

 

[Ash]

Thanks. Precisely what I was looking for.

 

[Anonona]

Though take into account that it is still a niche series of games, you may either like or hate it. Also, AC 4 and 5 changed a lots of things too, and those game didn't have lock-on like the Souls Games, but a different kind.

Here is an example of how it used to be. All AC games had PVP competitives modes and even some tournaments where organized.



ps: Also the videoshowcases the differences in build, how the left player has a lighter AC with better mobility but less weapons, while the heavier one has missiles and more options, but is slower

 

[Anonona]

Also a interesting tidbit for all Souls fans. All Armored Core games feature the famous Moonlight Blade, usually the laser blade with more raw power.

https://armoredcore.fandom.com/wiki/MOONLIGHT

PS: Pretty bangers soundtrack too, specially Nexus and 4/4A are pretty good.

 

[Late Bloomer]

You would think, judging by online reaction, that AC sold tens of millions of copies. It seems everyone has played the series.

 

[Lord of Riva]

You would think, judging by online reaction, that AC sold tens of millions of copies. It seems everyone has played the series.

I think people have played *some* of the series, it's just stretched thin per title , not gonna lie I have only played the PS 1 (mostly) and PS 2 games.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I love the Souls games, but I came close to not picking up DS3 or Elden Ring because I've gotten pretty burned out on them. Granted, Elden Ring felt different enough that I played the crap out of it, but really, it was time to do something else for a bit or at least to pursue more than one style of game even if they alternate or something.

If they go back to pumping Souls likes only, I foresee a point where I stop buying them, just like how I have a very small appetite for superhero movies these days.

There’s never really been a time when they were only pumping out Souls like games. They were still doing Armored Core games up to Dark Souls 2. There’s really only a fairly short period of time from Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 3 where they were just doing Souls like game, which comes with a shake-up to the formula by way of Bloodborne...and even then they also did some Monster Hunter spin-off game for Capcom during that time. Just in general they haven’t even really been pumping out Souls like games; they’ve only done 6 of them across 14 years.

In the last 5 years Elden Ring is the only Souls like game they’ve put out. Like Déraciné definitely wasn’t a Souls like game.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

You would think, judging by online reaction, that AC sold tens of millions of copies. It seems everyone has played the series.

I think people have played *some* of the series, it's just stretched thin per title , not gonna lie I have only played the PS 1 (mostly) and PS 2 games.

I’d think most people that had a PSX problem did at least play the demo of the first game. One of the big demo disc for the system had it, Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee, and that Ghost in the Shell game.

The series seemed fairly popular during the old PSX and PS2 days. I’d imagine a lot of people rented those games. I know my Blockbuster kept buying every PS2 Armored Core that came out, and they only buy more of that stuff if people are renting the older versions.

 

[Ivan]

Not feeling this one, but of course I'll check it out after a sale or so. Will be the first FromSoftware game I didn't day 1 purchase in quite a while. Hope it lives up to fans' expectations.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

Maybe I play this.

 

[DeepOcean]

I don't want to spend a few hours trying to understand something I may not like. Spill the beans. What the hell is this shit about? What's the gameplay appeal? If this series has a fanbase because of feeling, e.g childhood fantasies of piloting a mech, or because the game is like their favorite anime/transformers, then it can fuck off. I want to know if it has gameplay substance.

I'm on the same boat as you, never played Armored Core games before but they sound really awesome in concept. I was really interested because by what I saw and read, the Armored Core games kinda worked as a mercenary mech simulator going full in on the fantasy of it, you arent saving the world, you are getting paid, morality be damned and gameplay things like legs determining how much weight you can put above them, radiators and generators affecting energy consumption, energy weapons consuming energy from your generator instead of bullets, you actually needed to buy every missile and bullet and everything had a cost.

You could finish a mission easily by unloading your entire arsenal but by going on that route you ended in debt, so, finishing a mission wasnt enough, how optimized you were at ending the mission was also important on the long run. There was also a very interesting pity system for you to not brick your run that easily by going into debt, every time you get into debt, you can sell your body for the corporations that hired you to experiment on a program called Human+ and you lose your name and have to start over, becoming a number on the process, the more you lose, the bigger the bonus you get from that program until you are able to win the game but the ideal is to finish the game without those crutches.

Looked like a kinda a battle of attrition slow burn game instead of a flashy, moment by moment thing that is what I like(With exception of AC 4 that by what I looked, all that animu style of movement really dont appeal for my mech fantasy and really turned me off). Sounds great in concept.

I was interested in playing Armored Core 6 as the first one from the series because I didnt want to burn out and frankly, the boss fights on the older games looked clunky as hell and turned me off, there was alot of player skill involved on the optimization but the shooting model looked simplistic on the first ones working okay for most missions but breaking down hard with the bosses and too animu, spectacle based on the later ones for my taste. I could be totally wrong here but was my impression from the gameplay I saw.

So, I was hoping this one would keep that concept I was interested on and would solve the issue of the clunky boss fights with boss fights being more involved this time without going fully animu but by what I read, the core thing that attracted my attention in the first place, of you getting into debt seems to had been removed in AC 6, what was a cold shower on my interest.

Seems this will be Armored Dark: Lite edition, of course, they only shown off the first chapter, the first 11 missions and the game has supposely 5 chapters, so they could compensate on awesome mission design but by what I've seen on the gameplay footage so far, seemed okayish to me, too much one shoting trash mechs to the point where youtubers found it easy for the most part and only 3 interesting bosses, of course, could only be a Chapter 1 thing and we dont know the long term progression systems but I dont hold my breath for it.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Not feeling this one, but of course I'll check it out after a sale or so. Will be the first FromSoftware game I didn't day 1 purchase in quite a while. Hope it lives up to fans' expectations.

If you’re getting console games, a good time is around Christmas at Best Buy. They have some really good sales. Sometime even for brand new stuff. I think I picked up SteamWorld Dig 2 there back in 2018 for like under five bucks on PS4 around Christmas time.

 

[Jinn]

I would suggest most people watch this video of someone who has both played the game and is a long time fan of the series. I have it timestamped at the most relevant part.



So take it from someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Also, the conversation with this guy and the other two that was posted above in the thread is absolutely worth watching in its entirety if you're interested in what you should be expecting.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Dude has some 12 year old Youtube videos about AC. Damn.

 

[KIss My Ass]

My most wanted collector's edition in a while. My cats and me will just destroy it. Still, it's sexy. I'm fortunate I can't afford it.

 

[Talby]

Trolling aside, the game does look good. I'll probably check it out when it launches. The customization aspects does seem interesting. The combat makes me think of a faster paced Mechwarrior.

 

[TedNugent]

I'm on the same boat as you, never played Armored Core games before but they sound really awesome in concept.

I was really into Armored Core 2 on the PS2 when I was a kid, so I'll try and explain.

I didn't bother with anything that came out during the Xbox 360/PS3 era because they did something to the combat.

In Armored Core 1-3, the basic appeal was as follows. You could completely customize your mech. So, for example, you could have tank treads or nimble legs. You could go for reverse chicken style legs (which was my preference). You could use energy weapons, which used the same resource as your booster, or projectile/missile weapons. You could mount weapons on your arm as well as two shoulder mounted weapons. So in other words, you could have a missile pod, an energy cannon, and a machine gun, for example.

The equipment was typically some form of a tradeoff if it wasn't a clear upgrade, so you could change the way your AC walks, as well as your depth or width of your target lock window. The most obvious tradeoff was between weight and firepower/armor, or thrust power versus energy efficiency.

The reason I got turned off by the Xbox 360 era Armored Core games is simply because it seemed like you could permanently boost, so you were essentially aerial the entire time. In AC1-3, management of your energy was a huge factor, as strafing and turning were very slow and laborious, making you a relatively simple target to hit. Conversely, "boosting" a gigantic mecha with thruster bells takes a lot of thrust and energy, so specing your mech with the ideal balance of weight, armor, and firepower to match your preferred playstyle were big. I felt like the Xbox 360 version, therefore, felt like cheating, and it removed the most significant and remarkable part of the game, how it had weight and stompiness behind the movements, which made it, to me, feel like more of a natural mech combat game.

I think what they did in the 360 era is that they took a lot of the game journo critiques that the Armored Core series was "clunky," which was a word bandied around a lot back then to denote a low quality combat system or bad controls. "Fluid," by contrast, was to denote a high quality combat system. So they "fluidized it" by moisturizing the mecha joints with some high octane Mountain Dew so that it was more "constant" and less interrupted by tricky shit like gravity, having to aim your lockon window or steadily turn your 60 ton mech. So in the Xbox 360 games, instead of having to strafe or walk, your mech "glided" along the surface, which was illustrated by ridiculous sparks coming off your feet while you glide, which of course is unrealistic horseshit. Unfortunately this game still seems to have this iceskating rink style gliding mechanic, which is fucking stupid and I will not sugarcoat how much I hate it.

This is the first one that has caught my attention since the PS2 era. For reference, I always knew the From Software tag, and that's why my ears perked up the first time I saw Demon Souls, when the rest of you probably had no idea who they were. They also made Tenchu back in the day.

In essence, the reason why I am newly excited by Armored Core, no, thrilled, is because this is the From Software who has utterly refined the Dark Souls model of gameplay, with careful resource management and balance of weight in customizing your gameplay (does this sound familiar to you, RPGCodex?). In other words - Armored Core had a lot of the essence and gameplay that refined Dark Souls. It is therefore my hope that this new Armored Core will carry over these spiritual refinements and cross-pollinate back into AC what they have learned from Dark Souls. I have high expectations (with some doubts) that it will be another sick modern game from Fromsoft.

The mech designs themselves actually involved the designer from Macross, which is interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shōji_Kawamori

Anyway, here's some AC2 arena gameplay that shows how the combat was very dynamic even back then, and hopefully you get an idea for how joint cramping this shit was on a Dualshock 2 controller.



The target "lockon window" size was controlled by an "FCS" which presumably stands for fire control group. It was an upgradeable part and could be specced based on window size/distance and some other factors I can't remember. Obviously this has been replaced by the nugamer friendly target lock mechanic. On another note, this game's player vs player is going to be something else.

 

[Derringer]

They typically improved with the games they released from AC1 to Master of Arena and AC2 to AC3 but kind of middled with expansion packs with 3 and a remake of 1, then Last Raven was basically a hard difficulty map pack. AC4 from what I tried out in Xenia played pretty smoothly but I didn't run it for more than a few minutes, I didn't bother trying out VD since others said the emulation was still shoddy.

 

[Dr1f7]

u guys think this game's gonna be HARD af for true gam3rs? haha i cnat w8 to post on reddit about how leet i am and i did a full hitless RUN haha EPIC

prepare 2 die

Spoiler

unless ur a leet gamer like me!!
hahahaha