Auction House Online: The Game (Diablo 3) is a MASSIVE decline

[Whisper]

those are completely different games. they're not playing in the same league... do you get that?! they're about char development and decisions. almost every mmo/arpg let you respec your char. that this feature is free and instanstly in d3 is because you can't set points into the different skills and there's no skill tree. the char development happens automatically and without respec there would be nothing you could do while leveling up.

That's the point.

In Diablo 2 you at least had some control on character development. You could use what stats to improve at level ups and you could choose what skills to focus, which to take and which to pass (now each and every is heaped upon you, no matter if you want them or not).

There was char development and decisions in d2, now they removing each and any of them. I dont count finding new weapons as "choice" neither being given by devs every skill possible for your character.

 

[Semper]

news@11: in d3 char development happens automatically. beware brave folks, it's for the dumb masses!
is there something else you want to enlight us with?

 

[Whisper]

Seems we came to same conclusion then.
Only thing i would ask - if possible - someone make post on diablo 3 forum and ask why game choosing stat increases at lvl-ups is permanent.

Basically game makes choice, instead of player and this choice is permanent.

 

[Semper]

why game choosing stat increases at lvl-ups is permanent.

because of this, mein führer.

There was char development and decisions in d2, now they removing each and any of them.

 

[Whisper]

I know why. I want see diablo 3 fans reactions

 

[The Village Loon]

Why are you discussing if the game is fun or not? That is purely secondary. Game mechanics? Pfft. Who cares? I want to know how I can show other people I am better than them, not only in Diablo, but in life. How are the armor models? How large are the shoulders? Weapons? Can I show my achievements in game to others? I'm aiming for world first 15+ barrel kill. I assume people can browse at my achievements, but can I force them to see them? Like spam a window at them. Will there be a leaderboard that will show I'm the first to hit 10k played hours?

If I cannot express my awesome, why the fuck would I play this shit?

 

[Revenant]

By the way, a quote from VD's Dragon age 2 review:

Eventually, probably by the time you hit level 14-16 you’ll build a fairly capable character with most or all skills you want to have. Then you’ll have no reasons to look forward to the next level up, which is one of the three main elements of action RPGs, and start losing interest. If you’re wondering why, imagine Diablo 2 without the ability to invest multiple points and with poorly designed and balanced skills.

VD is a prophet?

 

[joeydohn]

How many active skills did D2 characters have and what level would you have to be to have 1 point in each of them?

 

[Revenant]

The ratio of active and passive skills varied with class, I think. If you tried to put 1 point in every skill, you had just enough levels to do so before reaching the next skill tier plus 1 extra point (without quest rewarded skill points). So, it's around level 30 to have 1 point in all skills if you save points.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Yes, but anybody who did that in Diablo 2 got fucked over badly when they started the game over on another difficulty. Good luck trying to kill something with one point in, say, poison nova... or good bloody luck trying to get your Flame Golem to kill something with just one point spent into it.

Perhaps Diablo 3 is an improvement in that regard? Tying weapon damage in with ability damage is a good way of making sure that you don't get fucked over later on, although they could have arguably introduced it in a more sound way (like Torchlight did with certain skills).

All in all: I'm buying it because I like brainless hack and slashers. And this time I won't have to worry about having just the right amount of points spent in strength to wear that uber set armour I want.

Edit: All of this is, of course, written under the assumption that this MIGHT be as good as Diablo 2. If it's not... then the skill system is the least of your concerns, as it ought to be now.

 

[MisterStone]

Bros didn't really read the thread, but why are people butthurt about decline in a game series that basically started the decline 15 years ago?

 

[Revenant]

Sorry, but I don't think Diablo 3 qualifies even as a hack'n'slash game, as hack'n'slash is supposedly a subgenre of RPGs. From what I understand so far, d3 has no stats or skills that can be modified whatsoever. At first I naively thought that maybe skill runes can be assigned while skills themselves are auto-assigned, but no, every level-up is completely automatic. Thus, Diablo 3 is an isometric action game and has nothing to do with RPGs. As a matter of fact, this might be the biggest decline in decades, as not even Bioware or Bethesda couldn't bring themselves to completely eliminate any control over the character. Diablo 3 must be the first RPG in a series to completely discard all RPG elements and still market itself as an RPG.

 

[DraQ]

So, what about moving all Hexen and Hexen 2 threads to GRPG?

Both have classes that play completely differently, Hexen has stuff like AC, while
Hexen 2 even has level ups, and stats (INT,WIS, DEX, STR) that are partially randomized on chargen.

Also STALKER, it doesn't really have stats, but allows you to equip and unequip weapons and armour with different stats, which, as we learn in this thread is totally the same as having stats.

Games like PS:T, Fallout, Wiz 8, or earlier TES games can get their own subforum named "OMFG Hardcore RPG Discussion".

So it works exactly like Dragon Knight Saga?

In DKS items have separate physical and magical damage, so not really, especially given that there are no distinct classes in Divinity 2.

Besides, Divinity 2 is rather meta in some regards, take generated item names, for instance - it's Diablo/Diablo 2 turned up to eleven with absurdity quotient over nine thousand.

 

[Semper]

Sorry, but I don't think Diablo 3 qualifies even as a hack'n'slash game, as hack'n'slash is supposedly a subgenre of RPGs. From what I understand so far, d3 has no stats or skills that can be modified whatsoever. At first I naively thought that maybe skill runes can be assigned while skills themselves are auto-assigned, but no, every level-up is completely automatic.

that ain't true. while gaining levels your char will be given runes and skills. at lvl60 your char reached the lvl cap and gained all his skills and runes. there are 21 active skills, 16 passive ones and 5 runes per character. you have to choose 6 active skills and 3 passive ones to create your build, plus you can assign 1 of the 5 runes to each of your active skills. every one of the runes change each skills drastically - it wents from additional damage, to life leech, to increased speed, slow down enemies, adding buffs to the party, additional attacks, elemental damage, reducing damage enemies do, stunning enemies and so forth. the damage/duration of the skills is directly influenced by your equip and your stats, therefore each skill can be used in high level difficulties. there are no weak ones.

stats can be buffed through gems and equip. even more so than the d2 system and the manual point selection. while d3 has an automated character development the system as a whole is very flexible. the amount of possible, useful and fun builds is way more higher than in d2.

 

[Micmu]

Also STALKER, it doesn't really have stats, but allows you to equip and unequip weapons and armour with different stats, which, as we learn in this thread is totally the same as having stats.

Not to mention you can make different "builds" with different items in STALKER. heavy armor guy, light armor guy, light weapons guy, heavy weapons guy, sniper, etc and zillions of combinations with artefacts.. because you can't really haul everything on a single character.
Actually, we've had cockbreaths who posted STALKER topics in CRPG discussion in the past. It haz invetoty and questz!!1

 

[fizzelopeguss]

So, what about moving all Hexen and Hexen 2 threads to GRPG?.

hey, every diablo thread i've made i always posted it in General Gaming.

 

[Whisper]

every one of the runes change each skills drastically - it wents from additional damage, to life leech, to increased speed, slow down enemies, adding buffs to the party, additional attacks, elemental damage, reducing damage enemies do, stunning enemies and so forth.

Most runes just add damage to same skill or increase duration/reduce cooldown.
This doesnt make totally "new skill".

stats can be buffed through gems and equip.

Gems = equip.

Still cant admit that you can only increase stats with equip?

while d3 has an automated character development the system as a whole is very flexible.

Automated character developement....flexible?


Yes, its very flexible to have +1 str +2 int permanently (notice that when game increase your stats for you - its permanent, if you change something about character - its not) assigned to you at level ups.

 

[DraQ]

Also STALKER, it doesn't really have stats, but allows you to equip and unequip weapons and armour with different stats, which, as we learn in this thread is totally the same as having stats.

Not to mention you can make different "builds" with different items in STALKER. heavy armor guy, light armor guy, light weapons guy, heavy weapons guy, sniper, etc and zillions of combinations with artefacts.. because you can't really haul everything on a single character.
Actually, we've had cockbreaths who posted STALKER topics in CRPG discussion in the past. It haz invetoty and questz!!1

It also has C&C, especially CoP.


Also:

Maybe Kotick will feel generous

 

[Revenant]

I still don't understand if the player gets to choose runes/passive skills on level-up or do runes get assigned automatically and the player has really no choice of anything on level-up. At first, I though skill runes function much like points in a skill tree, so you can bump 5 runes of your choosing into a skill to augment the skill. As far as I understand, later 5 runes were replaced with just 1 rune that has a very specific effect on a skill. So this 1 rune, got on level-up, is also automated? The player can choose NOTHING? Or can he? I'm confused.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Kotick is the kind of Juden who ought to have perished in the pastry camps of World War 2.

 

[Stabwound]

You don't have a choice in anything on level up. You just unlock more skills and runes. You can pick 6 skills and 6 runes to use at any given time.

Whether or not that system is good or bad is up to you.

 

[joeydohn]

I still don't understand if the player gets to choose runes/passive skills on level-up or do runes get assigned automatically and the player has really no choice of anything on level-up. At first, I though skill runes function much like points in a skill tree, so you can bump 5 runes of your choosing into a skill to augment the skill. As far as I understand, later 5 runes were replaced with just 1 rune that has a very specific effect on a skill. So this 1 rune, got on level-up, is also automated? The player can choose NOTHING? Or can he? I'm confused.

All skills/runes/passive abilities unlock at a certain level. The Witch Doctor's last active skill unlocks at level 30, runes and passive abilities continue to unlock until level 60.

At level 30 you have 6 slots for active skills, each of those active skills can chose one of 5 runes which are unique for that skill, and 3 slots for passives.

Just look at the calculator, it explains itself: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian

 

[Revenant]

You don't have a choice in anything on level up. You just unlock more skills and runes. You can pick 6 skills and 6 runes to use at any given time.

Whether or not that system is good or bad is up to you.

So why the fuck is that retard Semper blabbering about builds if there is no character development? Or is now a fucking selection of hotkeyed skills somehow a "build"? Holy Jesus, now that is a retarded reasoning if I ever saw one. Semper must be a Syril alt judging on stupidity.

 

[Average Manatee]

Your build is now how much equipment you buy from Blizzard. That is the Diablo 3 way to customize your character.

 

[shihonage]

Youtube commenter uses the Doom argument unsarcastically:

Customization is mostly removed? Not even remotely accurate. You have NOT EVEN PLAYED THE GAME. So how can you even say that? You say the classes are blurred yet they merely gave people more options on how to play, as in CUSTOMIZATION. The game will have plenty of customization and remove the need to redo characters because you fucked them up or changed your play style. IN YOUR OPINION STREAMLINING is rarely a virtue. Once again, you are not god. and you do not set the standard for everyone else

 

[hiver]

Also STALKER, it doesn't really have stats, but allows you to equip and unequip weapons and armour with different stats, which, as we learn in this thread is totally the same as having stats.

Not to mention you can make different "builds" with different items in STALKER. heavy armor guy, light armor guy, light weapons guy, heavy weapons guy, sniper, etc and zillions of combinations with artefacts.. because you can't really haul everything on a single character.
Actually, we've had cockbreaths who posted STALKER topics in CRPG discussion in the past. It haz invetoty and questz!!1

Whats with this zillion artifact combinations?

In each of Stalker games i found you can only use two or three artifacts, which then get replaced with another two or three better versions later on.
the rest is unusable because FUCKING ALL OF THEM give you radiation which makes you die.

So... did i have some special bugged games?