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Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming February 18th

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The things that make a first person action combat system good are simply incompatible with a cRPG, and I don't know how much more evidence there needs to be so you mongoloids get it through your thick fucking skulls.
Agreed, but I'm wondering what all your reasons are? cRPG being about character based stats and not player skill? First Person action combat being fun because of a given set of abilities mixing melee/fists/shooting and magic and not about picking one?
Yes, any first-person melee combat is bad - or at least inferior to third-person - and the main reason is the technology. As long as we control and experience games through monitors, M&Ks or gamepads, first-person melee combat will always shit because on a monitor your peripheral vision is shit, you can't see your opponents properly and you can't see your own body.

All this will abruptly change once we have a full-blown VR, Matrix style. Then playing a game with action melee combat will be the ultimate visceral experience. Until then tho devs implementing first-person melee combat in their RPGs are fools, including the prestigious ones like Warhorse.
 

RatTower

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477
I saw the trailer and it really got me thinking about what it is, that seems so off about a lot of modern fantasy games.
At first, one might think that it is the designs, but those are actually pretty alright (shape-wise). What's so strange and incoherent to me is the extensive use of neon coloring.
Go through that trailer again and count every shot with neon coloring. It's almost every single one of them and I am really not sure whether that is deliberate or the result of some aesthetic trend.
Compare this to a classic game trailer like the one of Lands of Lore 2:
...
Agreed, the neon stuff is just awful. Sharply contrasts with and doesn't fit in the rest of the environment, and just makes it look like a student project with asset store plants. The foliage is just awful.

Edit: I had to do an edit to include these quotes from another forum:

it's like Godfall & Immortals of Aveum had an illegitimate child in terms of visual palette...Way too garish.

The mushroom garden posted in the OP is straight kitsch in a way that would fit an aesthetic modelled after 1950s sci fi but not a quasi-historical fantasy setting
I could also do with less shining eye-candy and more atmosphere-seeping and I am very grateful RatTower's way of doing things.
But are you sure it's that bad here, guys? After all, Awoved's going to be the first person. Every light effect is going to be "closer" and thus more emphasized.
For all I know, spell effects and magical sources (e.g., a shining, heart-centered magic-infused mass, etc.) have been shining like crazy in many high-fantasy games.

(The third example is EE, but I've just checked in the OG; spells were pretty neon-like as well.):

https://youtu.be/er6cLCU-wY4?t=39
https://youtu.be/mhOfNQM2kfw?t=216
https://youtu.be/xcVuQSZA4Pw?t=11127

It is definitely hard to put a finger on it. The first-person view probably has quite an effect on how obtrusive spell effects feel.
However, the neon colors are also present in the static environment. I have not finished PoE back in the day but I don't think the environment's colors were that strong. Or at least, strong colors were used more sparingly.
Either way, it begs the question of whether that should be taken over into first person.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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Messages
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Now I understand why Josh is so quick to let people know that he has nothing to do with this.

Now I am actually hyped for it with this news.

They should put it onto box: "Games isn't made by Josh Sawyer. Relax... FUN is inside."

There was a lack of Sawyer in the Outer Worlds and it resulted in much disappointment with regards to its character system. As much as you dislike him, Cain is worse. :P

Seems to be a weird Squeenix issue. You can buy it in the US, Mexico, Canada, and Japan https://steamdb.info/app/39160/
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
All you get are hints about your character being some kind of chosen one, which is pretty unremarkable even by current year gaming standards
no you see its genius. you're not just the chosen one, the guy remarks on 'the way you fight'. you're the first class-less person in this world! fighter skills on left hand and wizard skills on the right hand? you betcha. this is such an anomaly, one must cheer for the return of 'subversive obsidian'. except now they are subverting themselves. wowie!
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
I mean, if Obsidian fuck it up despite unlimited budget and unlimited time to develop, its time we stop pretending the publisher was the big problem.
 

Cross

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Messages
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Now I understand why Josh is so quick to let people know that he has nothing to do with this.
The setting is entirely Sawyer's brainchild. He autistically detailed every aspect of the world, down to such exciting aspects like the proper pronunciation of Pŵgra and the rich culture of kobolds xaurips.
So we can still blame him for Avowed. :balance:
The things that make a first person action combat system good are simply incompatible with a cRPG, and I don't know how much more evidence there needs to be so you mongoloids get it through your thick fucking skulls.
Agreed, but I'm wondering what all your reasons are? cRPG being about character based stats and not player skill? First Person action combat being fun because of a given set of abilities mixing melee/fists/shooting and magic and not about picking one?
Yes, any first-person melee combat is bad - or at least inferior to third-person - and the main reason is the technology. As long as we control and experience games through monitors, M&Ks or gamepads, first-person melee combat will always shit because on a monitor your peripheral vision is shit, you can't see your opponents properly and you can't see your own body.

All this will abruptly change once we have a full-blown VR, Matrix style. Then playing a game with action melee combat will be the ultimate visceral experience. Until then tho devs implementing first-person melee combat in their RPGs are fools, including the prestigious ones like Warhorse.
The main thing holding first-person melee back is lazy developers like Obsidian who just copy Skyrim. There are only a few games that put some effort into developing first-person melee (Condemned, Dark Messiah, Mount & Blade) and the results were pretty entertaining. You could see your body in all those games, by the way.

Besides melee, action-RPGs also have ranged combat, spellcasting and stealth and the first-person perspective is arguably superior for all those things. So there are plenty of possible advantages to making an action-RPG in first-person.
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
There are only a few games that put some effort into developing first-person melee (Condemned, Dark Messiah, Mount & Blade) and the results were pretty entertaining.
There is NO REASON not to copy Mount&Blade's combat into your generic first person RPG. Its easy to implement, the directional striking/blocking is involved, weapon reach and type matters, works okay in 1vs2-3 situations, can be controlled with a gamepad, intuitive for people to learn, yet room for skill mastery to grow.
And even if you are bad at it, you can just play it like Serious Sam, backing away while chipping at the enemies chasing you, so its not even very hard on the difficulty.
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
There are only a few games that put some effort into developing first-person melee (Condemned, Dark Messiah, Mount & Blade) and the results were pretty entertaining.
There is NO REASON not to copy Mount&Blade's combat into your generic first person RPG. Its easy to implement, the directional striking/blocking is involved, weapon reach and type matters, works okay in 1vs2-3 situations, can be controlled with a gamepad, intuitive for people to learn, yet room for skill mastery to grow.
And even if you are bad at it, you can just play it like Serious Sam, backing away while chipping at the enemies chasing you, so its not even very hard on the difficulty.
they should have just bought the M&B tech and made Eora: Saint's War instead
 

HoboForEternity

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liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
aside fro
I saw the trailer and it really got me thinking about what it is, that seems so off about a lot of modern fantasy games.
At first, one might think that it is the designs, but those are actually pretty alright (shape-wise). What's so strange and incoherent to me is the extensive use of neon coloring.
Go through that trailer again and count every shot with neon coloring. It's almost every single one of them and I am really not sure whether that is deliberate or the result of some aesthetic trend.
Compare this to a classic game trailer like the one of Lands of Lore 2:
...
Agreed, the neon stuff is just awful. Sharply contrasts with and doesn't fit in the rest of the environment, and just makes it look like a student project with asset store plants. The foliage is just awful.

Edit: I had to do an edit to include these quotes from another forum:

it's like Godfall & Immortals of Aveum had an illegitimate child in terms of visual palette...Way too garish.

The mushroom garden posted in the OP is straight kitsch in a way that would fit an aesthetic modelled after 1950s sci fi but not a quasi-historical fantasy setting
I could also do with less shining eye-candy and more atmosphere-seeping and I am very grateful RatTower's way of doing things.
But are you sure it's that bad here, guys? After all, Awoved's going to be the first person. Every light effect is going to be "closer" and thus more emphasized.
For all I know, spell effects and magical sources (e.g., a shining, heart-centered magic-infused mass, etc.) have been shining like crazy in many high-fantasy games.

(The third example is EE, but I've just checked in the OG; spells were pretty neon-like as well.):

https://youtu.be/er6cLCU-wY4?t=39
https://youtu.be/mhOfNQM2kfw?t=216
https://youtu.be/xcVuQSZA4Pw?t=11127

It is definitely hard to put a finger on it. The first-person view probably has quite an effect on how obtrusive spell effects feel.
However, the neon colors are also present in the static environment. I have not finished PoE back in the day but I don't think the environment's colors were that strong. Or at least, strong colors were used more sparingly.
Either way, it begs the question of whether that should be taken over into

Poe was one of the best looking game ever and the color was very muted and grounded. Deadfire is a bit brighter but still fits the tropical island theme, not as bright as avowed, they went a bit too far i think and the trailer itself is not very telling on how the game will be like.

I like the aumaua model, that's it
 

Roguey

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Messages
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I mean, if Obsidian fuck it up despite unlimited budget and unlimited time to develop, its time we stop pretending the publisher was the big problem.
Who's been pretending, Avellone made it clear in the 2018 May of Rage that the problem was always the owners. Avowed's development is consistent with this.
 

whydoibother

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bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
I mean, if Obsidian fuck it up despite unlimited budget and unlimited time to develop, its time we stop pretending the publisher was the big problem.
Who's been pretending, Avellone made it clear in the 2018 May of Rage that the problem was always the owners. Avowed's development is consistent with this.
Disgruntled employee saying stuff about former employers, wishful thinkers can brush it aside.
Getting Microsoft money, and years of devtime, and creative freedom, and fucking up regardless... that's running the experiment and reading the results.
 

TT1

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Krakow
Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I am trying to understand my emotions about Avowed, after the showcase... it's just... sad.

Usually we come here, we massacre the games, we say shit, we joke, but the games are not bad (PoE, PoE 2, TOW, Grounded and Pentiment). I played them, I had some fun, they are fine. Avowed is just... what the fuck happened on production? This is such a big let down... I feel truly betrayed this time.

I dont know who like this kind of art, maybe mobile players, but I am so disappointed... Cannot believe they actually make meetings to decide to go with this kind of thing. And somebody looked at it and said: "holy shit, this is great! People will love it! Lets go to production"


:despair:
 

Kem0sabe

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Azores Islands
People expect first party games to be AAA spectacles. Sony demands top presentation from all their titles, and 90 or above metacritic, sometimes they miss but more often than not their games are incredible commercial and critical successes.

MS on the other hand, seems to accept any shit their dev studios come up with. Games with such low production values as Avowed and the inxile bioshock rip off, should have never been greenlit if their studios didnt have the technical capacity to make them look like they actually cost money to make.
 

Lord_Potato

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Free City of Warsaw
People expect first party games to be AAA spectacles. Sony demands top presentation from all their titles, and 90 or above metacritic, sometimes they miss but more often than not their games are incredible commercial and critical successes.

MS on the other hand, seems to accept any shit their dev studios come up with. Games with such low production values as Avowed and the inxile bioshock rip off, should have never been greenlit if their studios didnt have the technical capacity to make them look like they actually cost money to make.
Now, let's not get into the graphic whoring territory...

Visuals of Clockwork revolution seem ok to me. Even Avowed can work with its cartoonish art style. I prefer actual rpgs even with inferior graphics to shallow action adventure games from Sony, with zero reactivety but smooth AAA visuals.

I'm more worried by the quality of animations during combat. They don't seem to give proper feedback to the player if the attack managed to hit and how much damage it caused.
 

Dycedarg

Learned
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Dec 14, 2020
Messages
153
People expect first party games to be AAA spectacles. Sony demands top presentation from all their titles, and 90 or above metacritic, sometimes they miss but more often than not their games are incredible commercial and critical successes.

MS on the other hand, seems to accept any shit their dev studios come up with. Games with such low production values as Avowed and the inxile bioshock rip off, should have never been greenlit if their studios didnt have the technical capacity to make them look like they actually cost money to make.
Sony studios were heavily influenced by Naughty Dog and Uncharted. So if in one hand you get a bunch of critical darlings, on the other all you get are different flavors of movie games. Microsoft just bought a bunch of studios and has no idea what do with them. If I were a manager I would prefer Sony's model. But as a player I'd rather have what Microsoft are doing.
 

Dishonoredbr

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Messages
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People expect first party games to be AAA spectacles. Sony demands top presentation from all their titles, and 90 or above metacritic, sometimes they miss but more often than not their games are incredible commercial and critical successes.
Also their games all similar and always trying to be the Oscar bait bullshit..

Yeah, sure they score 90s on metacritic but are all about 3rd Person Shooters that have 30 minutes of script scenes and character spoiling puzzles. They're made to appeal to critics. I'm not even defeding what microsoft does, but like.. Really? Sony? Their showncase had at least 5 Games as Service shown. Fuck off. At least w/ microsoft there's have the CHANCE of have something like Hi-Fi Rush to come out.
 

Kem0sabe

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Messages
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Azores Islands
People expect first party games to be AAA spectacles. Sony demands top presentation from all their titles, and 90 or above metacritic, sometimes they miss but more often than not their games are incredible commercial and critical successes.
Also their games all similar and always trying to be the Oscar bait bullshit..

Yeah, sure they score 90s on metacritic but are all about 3rd Person Shooters that have 30 minutes of script scenes and character spoiling puzzles. They're made to appeal to critics. I'm not even defeding what microsoft does, but like.. Really? Sony? Their showncase had at least 5 Games as Service shown. Fuck off. At least w/ microsoft there's have the CHANCE of have something like Hi-Fi Rush to come out.

They dont appeal only to critics, its disingenuous to claim so, their titles do extremely well with players and are top sellers everywhere. What i want is for MS studios to invest in presentation and production quality instead of half-assing everything because "its free on gamepass".
 

Feyd Rautha

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
https://www.pcgamer.com/avowed-rpg-obsidian-preview-magic-interview/

Exclusive: Obsidian breaks 3-year silence to spill the secrets of Avowed, its next big RPG​

Obsidian spills the first details on combat, magic, character-building, and how important companions are to the story.

For just a moment, Avowed looks like any other fantasy RPG—swords and shields, shiny armor and helmets with those funny little nose guards. Then the dual-wielded flintlock pistols show up. And the fungus-infected bear. And the Willy Wonka-ass mushrooms. Obsidian was once the RPG studio that played in other developers' sandboxes, but with Avowed it's getting to paint the world it created for Pillars of Eternity on a far bigger canvas—one in which you're, well, kind of the asshole.

Okay okay, that's not quite fair—you don't have to be an asshole. But you do have to be an outsider, Avowed director Carrie Patel told me in an exclusive interview ahead of Avowed's reveal on Sunday.

As the game begins, your character arrives in a remote corner of the world of Eora called the Living Lands as an envoy of the Aedyr Empire, where you've been sent to investigate a mysterious plague. "Not everybody in the Living Lands is super thrilled to have an imperial presence in this far-flung land," she said. "So adventure ensues."

It's been a long three years since Avowed first appeared during a Microsoft livestream, promising a first-person RPG from Obsidian Entertainment. Since then Obsidian has released Grounded, an ant-scale survival game, and Pentiment, a 16th century murder mystery. Both were hits, but it's about damn time for another RPG, and Avowed's trailer says 2024 is the year. Its first appearance was just CG hinting at a game, but this time we've seen the real thing, and Obsidian was ready to talk about it.

CEO Feargus Urquhart told me that in scope Avowed is more akin to Obsidian's past RPGs like The Outer Worlds in size than it is a sprawling open world a la Skyrim, though that was actually Obsidian's initial pitch. When the developers sat down and focused on what Obsidian does best—stories and companions, in particular—the more compact scale came naturally.

"As someone who's come through development as a narrative designer, companions are a huge part of the experience and draw for me both as a player and as a developer," Carrie Patel said. "One thing we wanted to do with Avowed was make sure the companions felt really integral to the story. In some games they're optionally recruitable, but in Avowed they're deeply tied to the story, tied to your party… we really wanted to create this sense that you're in this big wild frontier, you're going on this adventure of discovery, and you have this small but tight knit crew with you. The sense you're adventuring through the wilds together, sharing in the discovery and the danger. These people are just as much a part of your story as the larger events that you're getting in the middle of."

The way you interact with other characters in Avowed will be similar to The Outer Worlds, where your dialogue options reflect the tone you want to want to use. "We try to hit a sweet spot when we're writing dialogue options where we invest enough personality for those options to be fun and interesting, but also leave enough space around them so that the player can really invest whatever headcanon they built for their character into that option," she said.

Patel wouldn't spill much about Avowed's story, but did give me some of the basics on what form of RPG to expect from Avowed:
  • You have an established role as the imperial envoy, but your "personality, appearance, and philosophy and vibe you bring to that role is up to you as a player to decide"
  • You can play as a human or an elf, but not other races
  • It's purely singleplayer—no co-op
  • The world is lightly systemic: think water and lightning interactions, but not the ol' bucket-on-the-head trick
  • You'll have two companions with you at a time, with their own combat specialties and, of course, personalities
  • There are several ability trees to progress through, and you won't be locked to a particular class or playstyle
  • You will level up, but the focus is on unlocking abilities rather than putting points into stats to grow stronger
Early in development, when Obsidian decided to prioritize a story "more focused on depth than breadth," the first-person combat ended up benefitting, too. Patel said that it was an example of a piece of Avowed that was surprisingly fun in their first vertical slice, a time when the team has to decide on what to commit more resources to and what to scale back on. Combat became a key focus, which should be music to the ears of every Elder Scrolls player who's always found the sword-swinging a bit wimpy. "Our combat has come along really, really well, and the bones have been there since the beginning," she said.

Patel cited a lot of time spent tuning the feel of swinging a sword vs. a mace vs. an axe to make combat feel right, but the options available to players seem like the more significant element at play here. You're free to dual-wield weapons, wield both magic and melee simultaneously, and as in Pillars of Eternity, there are some old timey guns available. When I brought up how bored I am of game loot with imperceptible stat differences from one sword to another, she said that's been on their mind, too.

"The way we've tried to approach that is erring on the side of fewer but meaningful upgrades. If you're upgrading your weapon from one tier to the next, you should feel the difference. If it's a small number change next to your item name, that's not going to feel as meaningful as going through an upgrade process, trying your weapon again and realizing it's doing a lot more damage. Fewer but more meaningful upgrade tiers."

From today's trailer, magic looks like it could be the bit of Avowed that really gives it its own fantasy flair. There's some excellent hand animation at work when the envoy draws runes in the air to conjure a fireball and later lifts a pulsing void skyward, sending a pile of guards orbiting weightlessly around it. I want a whole lot more of that, and I'm excited that I can mix magic with melee without being railroaded into a class.

We've seen only two minutes of Avowed, and I imagine Microsoft and Obsidian won't be talking about it too much more until Starfield is done with the spotlight. Once we do, I expect Obsidian's characters to start getting all the attention. When I asked Patel what she hadn't been able to do with the isometric Pillars RPGs that she's excited to do in Avowed, she brought it back to the companions without hesitating.

"In most of our games companions have been optional, which I think offers a wonderful degree of choice to players, but it means there's a limit to how deeply you can tie them into the core story. With Avowed we decided companions are going to be core. They're going to be part of the experience. And that means we can invest so much more in them and tie them much more closely, and personally, to the events and the parts of the world the player is encountering."

And can they die?

This time there was a pause. "You'll have to see," Patel said. Until 2024, then.
It's sounds like they had to abandon their original vision and settle for something much less ambitious in order to keep the project alive.
 

Tenebris

Scholar
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
280
Look at the bright side of all this. We can all spend our $70 on a different shitty RPG.
 

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