Avowed/Pillars of Eternity

[F. J. Rothchild III]

I’m a bit interested in this game, Avowed, that’s yet to come out. Wanted to hear (from those with extensive experiemce playing them) whether or not PoE1 and 2 are worth playing in order to get to know the world in which Avowed is set, given they share one.

If you hate PoE, feel free to tell me why. That said, I could really use a new world to dig into and then eventually play a game set in the same world that has completely different gameplay (reminds me a bit of an Ultima/Ultima Underworld or Might & Magic/Dark Messiah of M&M situation), so if you don’t recommend PoE, any suggestions for an alternative that would gve me a similar experience to what I just described are welcome!

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bester]

If you hate PoE, feel free to tell me why

Where do I start...

 

[Habichtswalder]

I only liked the worldbuilding in PoE for the first few hours. After that, you quickly realised that there was just a lot of pathos and an overflowing writing style mixed together and it was often more annoying than intriguing due to its lengthiness. I don't think PoE is a game you play because of the setting, there are just constantly new seemingly meaningful elements and mysteries added to the lore but nothing is really played out.

I also don't think you need much prior knowledge of the PoE world to play Awoved. That's why you don't need to play PoE and Deadfire to prepare.

 

[Butter]

I like the Pillars games, but I don't give a rat's ass about the setting. It feels too mundane and too similar to real world historical settings. I doubt Avowed is being designed for people already familiar with the setting. They're going to try and cast a wide net at people who never played Pillars.

 

[Diggfinger]

Pillars series awesome.

Put over 140hours in Deadfire.

Been itching to get back to the first one again. Bleak setting, awesome min-max character builds.
Highly recommend both games!

 

[Old Hans]

POE 1 has a better story than 2, but part 2 has more "stuff", but the story comes off like Tumblr fanfiction. I have zero hope for Avowed

 

[motherfucker]

literally Oblivion with guns

 

[Cohesion]

literally Oblivion with guns

Pretty sure it will be even worse than Oblivion (yeah, bar isn't high, I know).
These guys made The Outer Worlds - abandon all hope, Obsidian is finished.

 

[AndyS]

I like the Pillars games, but I don't give a rat's ass about the setting. It feels too mundane and too similar to real world historical settings. I doubt Avowed is being designed for people already familiar with the setting. They're going to try and cast a wide net at people who never played Pillars.

Pillars felt to me like Obsidian went out of their way to create as boring a fantasy setting as they possibly could. I don't understand it. Did they get some advice that creative settings don't sell and they were so desperate for a hit that they blanded it up to their best ability?

 

[The Bishop]

Best avoid PoE 1/2 if story/setting is your primary interest.

PoE 1 is very poorly written with lots of words and little substance, dumping huge chunks of lore on you out of nowhere. The whole thing builds around a lame final twist. Other than that the moment to moment storytelling is weak, nothing to remember with exception of some small parts from Avellone. Expansions are fine, nothing offensively bad about them, but not enough to elevate the whole thing.

And PoE 2 barely has any story at all. Same subplots repeating over and over, and then it ends. They were really struggling to come up with anything even remotely interesting, expansions included.

For Avowed to turn out good in story department, it will have to be nothing like PoE games. Needless to say, I have zero expectation in this regard. But even if miracle were to happen, skipping previous games is perfectly fine.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

Appreciate the responses.
Thank you to all who offered their opinions!

The emoji responses to my original post didn’t bode well at first (and I did realize, only after posting, that I actually vaguely remember PoE being a bit of a punching bag/meme here and largely disliked), but nice to see some say they like them!

The reasons both camps give, however, seem rather equal to me in potential validity as reasons to either play them or skip them so I’m still not quite sure if I will or not. I think it will take hearing about a specific element that pushes me over into being sold or one that is the opposite and a deal breaker.

I am curious, though…

I know both are Obsidian, but is it largely the exact same people from the studio who made Outer Worlds that are making Avowed? Because, while I didn’t play Outer Worlds, it looked like the most derivative, trend-chasing, retro futurism game #69,666, with Borderlands-level character designs, awful dialogue and attitude, and (while I’m not certain) likely forced identity politics shit from our world (the opposite of escapism) and shallow pseudo-RPG features and missed opportunies for more immersive sim-like systems or any depth whatsoever. And wasn’t it even written by some serious heavyweights who have done great stuff prior? Are any of my assumptions about the game right despite me having not played it?

If so, and if the exact same people (not other people at Obsidian) are making Avowed, then consider me worried, too. It just looked cool to me and I was eager to play it and have a new multi-game/genre world to get into, but multiple folks on here describe Pillars’ word as bland, which is the opposite of what an RPG’s world should be, unless it’s some purposeful choice in some dystopian, urban, brutalist, grey, totalitarian sci-fi or something. But fantasy shouldn’t be bland…

 

[scytheavatar]

I know both are Obsidian, but is it largely the exact same people from the studio who made Outer Worlds that are making Avowed? Because, while I didn’t play Outer Worlds, it looked like the most derivative, trend-chasing, retro futurism game #69,666, with Borderlands-level character designs, awful dialogue and attitude, and (while I’m not certain) likely forced identity politics shit from our world (the opposite of escapism) and shallow pseudo-RPG features and missed opportunies for more immersive sim-like systems or any depth whatsoever. And wasn’t it even written by some serious heavyweights who have done great stuff prior? Are any of my assumptions about the game right despite me having not played it?

If so, and if the exact same people (not other people at Obsidian) are making Avowed, then consider me worried, too. It just looked cool to me and I was eager to play it and have a new multi-game/genre world to get into, but multiple folks on here describe Pillars’ word as bland, which is the opposite of what an RPG’s world should be, unless it’s some purposeful choice in some dystopian, urban, brutalist, grey, totalitarian sci-fi or something. But fantasy shouldn’t be bland…

Most of the "trend-chasing" can be blamed on Feargus Urquhart who in recent years seems to have been mind broken by the failure of Pillars 2............ the current Obsidian is a very different company from the Obsidian that made KOTOR 2/Fallout NV etc. The Avowed team coming out and constantly begging players to lower their expectations means you would be foolish to have high expectations of them at this point.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

I know both are Obsidian, but is it largely the exact same people from the studio who made Outer Worlds that are making Avowed? Because, while I didn’t play Outer Worlds, it looked like the most derivative, trend-chasing, retro futurism game #69,666, with Borderlands-level character designs, awful dialogue and attitude, and (while I’m not certain) likely forced identity politics shit from our world (the opposite of escapism) and shallow pseudo-RPG features and missed opportunies for more immersive sim-like systems or any depth whatsoever. And wasn’t it even written by some serious heavyweights who have done great stuff prior? Are any of my assumptions about the game right despite me having not played it?

If so, and if the exact same people (not other people at Obsidian) are making Avowed, then consider me worried, too. It just looked cool to me and I was eager to play it and have a new multi-game/genre world to get into, but multiple folks on here describe Pillars’ word as bland, which is the opposite of what an RPG’s world should be, unless it’s some purposeful choice in some dystopian, urban, brutalist, grey, totalitarian sci-fi or something. But fantasy shouldn’t be bland…

Most of the "trend-chasing" can be blamed on Feargus Urquhart who in recent years seems to have been mind broken by the failure of Pillars 2............ the current Obsidian is a very different company from the Obsidian that made KOTOR 2/Fallout NV etc. The Avowed team coming out and constantly begging players to lower their expectations means you would be foolish to have high expectations of them at this point.

KOTOR II (with the restored stuff) is in my top 5 games of all-time. I’ve been oit of the loop on Obsidian, though, for a bit. This is awful news that they’ve gone so downhill….yet, really, almost all of my favoriye dev studios have…I completely believe you, but can you share any examples of them suggesting folks “lower expectations” for Avowed? I’m simply morbidly curious now.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

I love Eora and PoE1/2.

That being said I have reservations about Avowed, it's definitely XBOX mandated controller friendly RPG.

If it is succeed it guarantees more Avowed not Pillars of Eternity 3.

If it is not succeed (which likely is in my own estimation), it would be the end of Avowed and will severely hurt Obsidian name further (not that I care too much about it).

Here are my prophecies to Avowed, First it will be a Good Game, a 7,5 - 8, but Good Game is not what people want, they want a Masterpiece. But alas, what constitute a Masterpiece is subjective, and even 37 years old, sexually stunted, Basement Dweller Codexian have their own ideas about what is Masterpiece and insist upon others that their definition is the one true definition.

Second, they will find out about Carrie Patel, and Americanisch (most of them are educationally stunted due to low and unequal education opportunity) will start a "culture war", blaming on Black Rock, DEI, ESG, MSG, MGM, FSG, ABC, and Brie Larson for some reason, whatever it is that they like to Parrot from their favorite Propagandis- I mean, YouTuber.

 

[Sandsch]

I know both are Obsidian, but is it largely the exact same people from the studio who made Outer Worlds that are making Avowed? Because, while I didn’t play Outer Worlds, it looked like the most derivative, trend-chasing, retro futurism game #69,666, with Borderlands-level character designs, awful dialogue and attitude, and (while I’m not certain) likely forced identity politics shit from our world (the opposite of escapism) and shallow pseudo-RPG features and missed opportunies for more immersive sim-like systems or any depth whatsoever. And wasn’t it even written by some serious heavyweights who have done great stuff prior? Are any of my assumptions about the game right despite me having not played it?

If so, and if the exact same people (not other people at Obsidian) are making Avowed, then consider me worried, too. It just looked cool to me and I was eager to play it and have a new multi-game/genre world to get into, but multiple folks on here describe Pillars’ word as bland, which is the opposite of what an RPG’s world should be, unless it’s some purposeful choice in some dystopian, urban, brutalist, grey, totalitarian sci-fi or something. But fantasy shouldn’t be bland…

Most of the "trend-chasing" can be blamed on Feargus Urquhart who in recent years seems to have been mind broken by the failure of Pillars 2............ the current Obsidian is a very different company from the Obsidian that made KOTOR 2/Fallout NV etc. The Avowed team coming out and constantly begging players to lower their expectations means you would be foolish to have high expectations of them at this point.

KOTOR II (with the restored stuff) is in my top 5 games of all-time. I’ve been oit of the loop on Obsidian, though, for a bit. This is awful news that they’ve gone so downhill….yet, really, almost all of my favoriye dev studios have…I completely believe you, but can you share any examples of them suggesting folks “lower expectations” for Avowed? I’m simply morbidly curious now.

Maybe this article?
https://www.ign.com/articles/avowed-size-and-scope-closer-to-the-outer-worlds-than-skyrims

 

[goregasm]

Pillars 1 is pretty damn decent despite a number of people here shitting on it. I haven't played the second one yet, and have less than zero interest in Avowed and will most likely not touch it.

I will eventually get around to Pillars 2. The first game is a perfectly serviceable rtwp rpg that has an interesting setting and a pretty good story all things considered.

I disliked the backer shit, and one of the companions, there is a fair amount of dislike here on the forums for exposition dumps, but I personally found most of it interesting in a world building sense at least.

Is it the greatest game ever made? No. Did I enjoy my 130 hour playthrough? Yea.

 

[Jack Slash]

Wanted to hear (from those with extensive experiemce playing them) whether or not PoE1 and 2 are worth playing in order to get to know the world in which Avowed is set, given they share one.

I enjoyed both PoEs quite a lot and beat both twice, sinking about 150 hours into each. The criticism of the second game's main story is valid, as well as complaints about the first game's excessive wordiness at times, but I think it's important to remember that the original PoE came out at a time where the market of isometric/top-down CRPGs was at a standstill, and a major release of a fresh IP, especially one of the first big Kickstarter success stories, was unprecedented.

And both games deliver in many ways - I liked the world, but even more so the companions. Durance and Eder are easily some of the most memorable party members that I encountered in a role-playing game, and you get to know them very well over the course of a long playthrough - giving the relationships the time to build up and attain the critical mass to actually make you care for their philosophies.

If you want challenge, the game will give you challenge. If you enjoy exploration, oh boy - exploration and discovery are central to your progress. I think the series succeeded in replicating that old Baldur's Gate feeling of an open world, where you wander from place to place, some of them huge, some empty, some featuring set pieces and specific themes, but all memorable in some ways.

There is honestly no reason not to play both PoE 1 and 2 if you love CRPGs. You may appreciate them, you may hate some of the parts, but you sure as hell won't leave indifferent.

 

[Baron Tahn]

The setting is probably more interesting than vanilla Faerun and way less interesting than any other DND setting. It's fine. Servicable. It has flintlock musket level tech which is cool. Um, that's about it. The Godlike are kinda interesting as a race.

Don't play PoE though, the writing is torture.

In general it's probably about as exciting as Elder Scrolls so dunno. If it's good it's good, but I'll be stunned if it is.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

In general it's probably about as exciting as Elder Scrolls so dunno. If it's good it's good, but I'll be stunned if it is.

Am I correct in my guess that the first sentence here is referring to PoE and the second to Avowed?

 

[Baron Tahn]

Haha yes. PoE setting as exciting as Elder Scrolls. If Avowed turns out good then it turns out good - might turn out to be the bees knees but I doubt it. My apologies.

 

[Bester]

PoE setting as exciting as Elder Scrolls.

I've seen intelligent people say Morrowind's lore was decent and had genuinely enjoyable books in the game.
I've not seen a single, even challenged individual, claim to have enjoyed PoE's in-game books.
That's just one easy comparison. So I'd suggest you stopped insulting TES lore or sooner or later it'll be plain tickets, bitch.

 

[Baron Tahn]

Plane. You mean plane tickets. Morrowind was a fine game but TES as a setting? Bleh. It's middle of the road.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

Wanted to hear (from those with extensive experiemce playing them) whether or not PoE1 and 2 are worth playing in order to get to know the world in which Avowed is set, given they share one

"General" consensus is:

1. Pillars of Eternity, subjectively, has overall more nuanced and better story (whether you like the story or not it's entirely your own opinion).
2. Pillars of Eternity 2 objectively better at everything else. Better graphics, better system etc.).

Personally I think PoE1 is more boring than PoE2. PoE2 is similar to New Vegas, structurally and functionally. I prefer PoE2 story, it is nuanced, but it's not pretentiously nuanced like PoE1 does in my opinion.

I think PoE1 is like college student at a dorm room discussing about hypotheticals and political ramification of something that ultimately, doesn't really matter. PoE2 is like showing you a unhoused person getting beaten up on the side of the street by a landlord, you're given a chance to action and learn why this thing happened and it usually backloaded all the lore, it give it to you only when you asked for it or actively seeking it.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

Morrowind was a fine game but TES as a setting? Bleh. It's middle of the road.

I agree.

Within TES’ setting, Morrowind is the only really unique and interesting sub-setting, in my opinion. I guess Kirkbride literally locking himself in his apartment and taking LSD paid off. Otherwise, Arena, Daggerfall, and Oblivion are generic medieval fantasy, look and feel-wise, and Skyrim your typical viking tundra.

I’d argue that what makes me still have a lot of fond TES memories (even ones of moments from its worst entries, like Skyrim) is the charm inherent in the synergy between its admittedly buggy and janky but ultimately easy-to-get-lost-in sandbox and its mechanics, idiosyncracies (some dumb but endearing), specific quests that were memorable and classic, as well as the exploration of the world and discovering, be it via the many books or conversations, more about its lore, generic or not.

A game like Planescape- Torment is the quintessentially not generic example of a wholly memorable, intelligent, and life-changing RPG, but it requires your attention and doesn’t offer you a giant world to simply mindlessly wander, doing quests (some great, some dumb) and otherwise just messing around while making your own adventure as you can in TES. Torment shouldn’t offer this, but there’s some merit to the fact TES games do, generic setting or not.

So, while I don’t play TES games much anymore, I think generic (Oblivion) and original (Torment) both have their places. I prefer the former, but the fact I still don’t FULLY hate TES, despite playing infinitely superior RPGs since, proves to me that when a game’s setting is generic it can still get by on the strength of what it does within that generic setting and if the actual act of playing it is fun, or at least successful as an addictive distraction from life.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Plane. You mean plane tickets. Morrowind was a fine game but TES as a setting? Bleh. It's middle of the road.

No he means plain.
No colour, taste like paste. The plainest tickets imaginable. Bitch.