Eternity Avowed Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

As with all first person fantasy games, the right way to play is stealth archer or pew pew.

Nope. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and Warhammer vermintide & Darktide disagree. Melee combat is amazing in both games. Same for non fantasy games, like Mordhau.

They need to make us take 20 seconds to reload a pistol or a musket, 10-15 seconds with a talent.

In a world with magic and telekinesis, why I cant just use it to quick reload an arquebus?

First of all, I love Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and its combat is anything but amazing, it's jank as hell and kick simulator which is fun but that's not because of its "melee combat". Vermintide is amazing but it's really hard to get that right, apparently even when they are proactively trying to do so since they explicitly stated they took Vermintide as inspiration.

Secondly, your second question is the same one why you can't shoot bullets directly without a gun with magic, because it's silly and stupid. It's also same reason why you would need any weapon, armor or anything at all instead of "magic". If you can just do anything and answer "magic" as the fundamental why, your setting becomes incoherent.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Roguey]

Nope. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and Warhammer vermintide & Darktide disagree. Melee combat is amazing in both games.

DM's combat works because of all the environmental kills, when you're straight up hacking and slashing away it sucks.

 

[Cross]

Nope. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and Warhammer vermintide & Darktide disagree. Melee combat is amazing in both games.

DM's combat works because of all the environmental kills, when you're straight up hacking and slashing away it sucks.

Even the most simplistic encounter in Dark Messiah - fighting the most basic enemy type on flat, featureless terrain, as shown in this video - is lightyears more fun than anything we've seen from Avowed.

First of all, I love Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and its combat is anything but amazing, it's jank as hell and kick simulator which is fun but that's not because of its "melee combat". Vermintide is amazing but it's really hard to get that right, apparently even when they are proactively trying to do so since they explicitly stated they took Vermintide as inspiration.

Vermintide is just light and heavy attacks. The melee combat in Dark Messiah isn't perfect, but it's a lot more sophisticated, as different weapons have their own distinct movesets. Add in magic, archery, stealth and use of the environment and you have by far the best first-person fantasy RPG combat system.

The physics-based interactions in Dark Messiah also mean you can replay the same encounter and it will always play out differently.

 

[FreeKaner]

Vermintide is just light and heavy attacks. The melee combat in Dark Messiah isn't perfect, but it's a lot more sophisticated, as different weapons have their own distinct movesets. Add in magic, archery, stealth and use of the environment and you have by far the best first-person fantasy RPG combat system.

The physics-based interactions in Dark Messiah also mean you can replay the same encounter and it will always play out differently.

Did you even play Vermintide? It also has different weapons with their own distinct movesets which create different interactions with different damage values.

Here you can learn:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1821186836

Do mind that different attacks also have different values for damage as well as different reach and direction which means you use different attacks and combos for different type and amount of enemies. Calling it "just light and heavy attacks" is honestly absurd.

 

[Just Locus]

I'm infinitely looking forward to Wayward Realms more than this, at least that game has some interesting mechanics going for it like the Virtual DM. This looks C- in every aspect, It feels like they're adding MOBA abilities to a game, instead of making meaningful combat decisions.

 

[luj1]

Even the most simplistic encounter in Dark Messiah - fighting the most basic enemy type on flat, featureless terrain, as shown in this video - is lightyears more fun than anything we've seen from Avowed.

That's crazy, Idk how they can be so behind

 

[Thal]

I find it amazing that no one has ever tried to replicate Dark Messiah's combat and make an open world rpg with it. After Divinity: Original Sin 2, the idea of first person fantasy combat with environmental interraction should be the easiest thing to pitch to publishers. In fact, they could just show a video like the one above and say that they will do a Skyrim with it.

Instead, we always get this same-old with new skins. Couldn't care less about Avowed.

 

[Cryomancer]

About melee in first person, it can be good as longs the attacks are impactfull like in the mentioned examples. Picking Mordhau for example which has a amazing melee combat, imagine a game with similar combat BUT anyone could survive dozens of strikes from a Dane Axe and suffer nothing... Pillows of 4e was made with everything anemic in mind, melee, spells ranged...

To have a notion on how things are anemic in pillows, a tier 9 psionicist power in KoTC2 compared to a tier 9 spell in Pillows :

Tornado Blast (30' radius spread aimed at a creature. Long Range, Reflex Half. You launch a vortex of air towards a creature. The vortex explodes and everyone in the area of effect takes 17d6 bludgeoning damage, except the target creature, which takes 25d6 bludgeoning damage. The manifester is not affected. All creatures who failed their reflex save become prone.(...)
source https://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/Pages/FWE_Psionicist.htm

A tier 9 psionicist power in Pillows of 4e

+8 Penetration for 24.0 sec https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Driving+Echoes

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

Is Patel okay? Is she some sort of android? Listen to these two time stamps:

https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=426
https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=804

 

[Butter]

Is Patel okay? Is she some sort of android? Listen to these two time stamps:

https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=426
https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=804

She's trying to fake having passion for her job. There's no way to make finding a treasure chest with crafting materials sound interesting.

 

[Tyranicon]

She sounds fatigued. They're putting her front and center for all these things.

Was Josh Sawyer in the public eye as much during Pillars of Eternity 1, or is Avowed getting more marketing? Roguey

 

[Roguey]

I find it amazing that no one has ever tried to replicate Dark Messiah's combat and make an open world rpg with it.

You can't make an open world game with that kind of combat because it lives and dies on its level design (and all its conveniently placed spikes, cliffs, barrels).

 

[Roguey]

She sounds fatigued. They're putting her front and center for all these things.

Was Josh Sawyer in the public eye as much during Pillars of Eternity 1, or is Avowed getting more marketing? Roguey

He was everywhere, but he's a guy who loves talking about games. Patel's strengths apparently don't involve marketing so they're in an awkward position here.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

Is Patel okay? Is she some sort of android? Listen to these two time stamps:

https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=426
https://youtu.be/rx15Hieye_E?t=804

they're probably on crunch schedule, I'm guessing for additional features which their publisher demanded (which wasn't part of original design, like 3rd person combat).

 

[Cryomancer]

I find it amazing that no one has ever tried to replicate Dark Messiah's combat and make an open world rpg with it.

You can't make an open world game with that kind of combat because it lives and dies on its level design (and all its conveniently placed spikes, cliffs, barrels).

You can. Make the player able to create a base and place stuff in his base, can design some ruins where it makes sense as PoE, etc.

 

[Just Locus]

You can't make an open world game with that kind of combat because it lives and dies on its level design (and all its conveniently placed spikes, cliffs, barrels).

Kind of. You can still develop an open world with singular levels that are designed similarly to DM's. It's not impossible

 

[Fedora Master]

Why do you expect anything but joyless uninspiring drab banal garbage from people who have produced nothing but joyless uninspiring drab banal garbage for decades?

 

[Thal]

I find it amazing that no one has ever tried to replicate Dark Messiah's combat and make an open world rpg with it.

You can't make an open world game with that kind of combat because it lives and dies on its level design (and all its conveniently placed spikes, cliffs, barrels).

Dungeons and indoor spaces could be designed like that in an open world rpg. Even the overworld environment could to a lesser extent, for example by having cramped spaces, bridges, fences, and different elevation levels. You could even have small enough trees that your swings could fell over your enemies or, being a fantasy game, the foliage itself could be spiky. Moreoever, physics based directional attacks and kicks would be just as useful for fighting groups on mostly flat ground. Ditto for many kinds of spells and spell combinations. Of course, one should improve the design of Dark Messiah instead of simply copy pasting it. But guided by a strong vision from the get-go and implemented consistently in game design, I'm sure something new and interesting could be done.

 

[skaraher]

She sounds fatigued. They're putting her front and center for all these things.

Was Josh Sawyer in the public eye as much during Pillars of Eternity 1, or is Avowed getting more marketing? Roguey

He was everywhere, but he's a guy who loves talking about games. Patel's strengths apparently don't involve marketing so they're in an awkward position here.

He was everywhere for FNV promotion too if I recall correctly, and did a good job at it. (As good as a dev can do it, obviously)

 

[Silverfish]

Unironically posting Mr. Matty Plays tweets.

Because Skyrim's combat is horrible. Even console peasants recognize that.

I'd love to get an opportunity to talk to Todd Howard, off the record, and ask how disappointed he is that he directed a game where you can slow time to tag a couple of guys with poisoned arrows then summon a fire spirit to finish them off while you engage their buddies in melee, resurrect everyone you just killed with the ritual stone as thralls, lead an undead army against the next group of enemies and then transform into a werewolf to abuse knockdowns while your horde kills the now helpless foes, but everyone either ceaselessly right clicks or stealth snipes and then says the combat is bad.

 

[FreeKaner]

About melee in first person, it can be good as longs the attacks are impactfull like in the mentioned examples. Picking Mordhau for example which has a amazing melee combat, imagine a game with similar combat BUT anyone could survive dozens of strikes from a Dane Axe and suffer nothing... Pillows of 4e was made with everything anemic in mind, melee, spells ranged...

To have a notion on how things are anemic in pillows, a tier 9 psionicist power in KoTC2 compared to a tier 9 spell in Pillows :

Tornado Blast (30' radius spread aimed at a creature. Long Range, Reflex Half. You launch a vortex of air towards a creature. The vortex explodes and everyone in the area of effect takes 17d6 bludgeoning damage, except the target creature, which takes 25d6 bludgeoning damage. The manifester is not affected. All creatures who failed their reflex save become prone.(...)
source https://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/Pages/FWE_Psionicist.htm

A tier 9 psionicist power in Pillows of 4e

+8 Penetration for 24.0 sec https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Driving+Echoes

You have to be retarded on purpose.

Here is a tier 6 psionic power in PoE:

Manifests the target ally's mental strengths and projects them outward forcefully, causing a shockwave that inflicts Crush damage and knocks enemies in the area of effect Prone.

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Amplified_Wave_(Deadfire)

It's the same ability, except cast on an ally which is unaffected.

Here is a psionic ability from tier 4 in fact:

Produces a psychic howl in the target's area, Stunning the target as well as dealing Raw damage and interrupting all nearby enemies.

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Silent_Scream_(Deadfire)

I can't believe there are people retarded enough to still make me defend this game 6 years later because of their dishonesty.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

To be fair, prettiest Obsidian game is not a high bar to clear.

 

[Cryomancer]

l make me defend this game 6 years later because of their dishonesty.

Yep. You are right. But will Avoided have Cipher like abilities like Pillows had? As I've said, I din't liked much wizards in Pillows, but Ciphers where "okish"(nothing spetacular)

 

[Child of Malkav]

You can't make an open world game with that kind of combat because it lives and dies on its level design (and all its conveniently placed spikes, cliffs, barrels).

You absolutely can. With the success of games like ER, DOS2, BG3, Dishonored, Prey etc. and their focus on verticality you don't need spikes at all. Just cliffs, wooden floors, breakable crates or doors, fire sconces or any other environmental hazard. Plus with the way the spells affect the environment and the enemies and the DOS2 example with surfaces and other imsim interactions it's 100% possible.