Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hell bovine]

Monsters die in 1-2 hits in BG 3. 1-2 hits. Combat is over very quickly. If that is "bloated" to you then I don't know what isn't, because clearly you just want a passive aura that kills enemies before you arrive.

That's what Gale is for. :D

 

[Cryomancer]

on and on about how all mages should be world ending terrors

Never said that. My point is simple.

• I an fine with low magic settings like Conan
• I an fine with dark magic settings where magic is dangerous like Lamentations of the flame princess
• I an fine with magic being a alien thing which no human mind can comprehend without becoming a insane cultist like Lovecraftian cosmic horror
• I an fine with NO magical settings, historical or not
• I an fine with crazy high magicl settings with Netherese style flying cities and magical space ships.
• I an NOT fine with a game that portraits himself as a very high magical setting, starting with a mindflayer spelljammer ship fighting dragons and has the weakest "magery" of all D&D adaptations.

Not even vanilla NWN2 which did everything that they could to ruin casters in the game, has a lv 4 warlock unable to OHK a lv 1 goblin with Eldrtich Blast. And the game is UNPLAYABLE as a caster without spell fixes and warlock reworked. You don't see me complain about half giants on Dark Sun games. Why? Because makes sense that they are ludicrous strong. They are used as "living siege weapons". A mid level half giant gladiator probably can kill an epic level dwarf fighter in less than 15 seconds(3 rounds)

want a passive aura that kills enemies before you arrive.

Wrong. I wanna kill & die fast. I don't wanna a game where my character can at low levels be hit by cannon balls and walk as if it is nothing and enemies can soak dozens of shots from a squad of high level assassins with poisoned arrows.

Enchantment spells are already worthless on 5e. If you bloat enemy hp, why does anyone would use charm, sleep and similar spells? Can you give me one reason which anyone would pick any spell specialization that isn't evocation on BG3? Or that any warlock would pick Archfey or Great old One pacts?

------------------------

But of course, if you wanna a enchanter specialized wizard able to put few low level goblins to sleep, you wanna casters able to destroy the world with a word, spells should do X in cutscenes and have 0,00001% of the power and utility in game /sarcasm

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Giving players a bunch of options to remove and strip the game is pathetic. Hold your players accountable, make them improve, intellectually challenge them. Who's the developers here? you have to make decisions for your players all the time and to strip one of the core parts of the dnd system because it may inconvenience your player is pathetic. Adversity is the spice of life, and players don't know what's good for them.

> "rolling dices is intellectually challenging"
The only who intellectually challenged here is you, because only quite stupid person would think that dice rolls require someone being smart. Hell, even D&D in general (no matter of edition) is not that complicated.

Who's the developers here? you have to make decisions for your players all the time and to strip one of the core parts of the dnd system because it may inconvenience your player is pathetic. Adversity is the spice of life, and players don't know what's good for them.

And arrogant and tone def dev's attitude like you described is the reason why non-RNG option is included in first place. If devs was humble, they would listen to valid critique on forums instead of ignoring it and throwing out "bone" for largest group of "whiners", who happen to be people who prefer deterministic approach. It might be news for you, but developers cannot know "what's good for players" due to the fact that their job is not hanging out with people all the time, but sitting behind screen. "Muh artistic intentions" does not automatically translates into good games.

More proof that whatever larian is putting out is luring in all the decliners. RNG is instrumental to the way dnd is designed. At some point you have to expect your players to actually engage with the game mechanics. This is important because we've seen historically that decisions like this spread and then just get worse and worse. You should always call out decline

So Larian should listen to everybody who complains about the game or follow their "artistic vision"? You contradict yourself. Also your manner of posting reminds me some kind of political speech, therefore it convinces only who already convinced and useless on people with doubt and brains.

You all know what else is optional? Playing the game. Please don't support this kind of stuff. At the very least, pirate.

Oh, common, the most played game on Codex is fucking Skyrim, Larian's take on decline would be improvement.

All jokes aside though, you are decades too late for party, decline already here and started with Bioware. Although not playing games in early access is good suggestion.

Hovewer, if there a simple way to add option to remove RNG it makes me question how exactly well was thought out formula to begin with. I mean, if there was complex solution - adding deterministic option would require a redesign of whole system.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Never said that. My point is simple.

Your point is nonsensical. And you reading this from me - guy who actually like to play as caster. Maybe I am not understanding something, but your endless butthurt isn't helping either.

 

[Cryomancer]

dice rolls require someone being smar

He never said that. He said that dices are a part of D&D gameplay since the beginning. Maximizing your chances of success and minimizing of failure can be far more entertaining than having a strategy that will always work. In fact, IMO D&D should have included "Botch" like on WoD.

Your point is nonsensical.

Explain who magic being a extreme force in a cutscene and the weakest thing in gameplay is good and how my idea is "nonsensical".

the most played game on Codex is fucking Skyrim, Larian's take on decline would be improvement.

But everyone knows that Skyrim is a "fast food" equivalent on RPG's. Skyrim doesn't appear on the most popular list on Codex( https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=11193 ) But Larian games appears. DOS2 appears in 32th position. Above KDC, Dark Sun, Ultima Underworld and Temple of Elemental Evil. ToEE is a masterpiece and DOS is at best a average game.

 

[hell bovine]

Your point is nonsensical.

Explain who magic being a extreme force in a cutscene and the weakest thing in gameplay is good and how my idea is "nonsensical".
.

Here you go: you simply aren't very good at playing spellcasters. That is why you think wizards are weak in BG3.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

He never said that. He said that dices are a part of D&D gameplay since the beginning. Maximizing your chances of success and minimizing of failure can be far more entertaining than having a strategy that will always work. In fact, IMO D&D should have included "Botch" like on WoD.

Are you seriously making argument about semantics and meaning of "shit that onotopoly said? I never claim, that I always capable to understand others without mistake, but if he did not said your version either.

Explain who magic being a extreme force in a cutscene and the weakest thing in gameplay is good and how my idea is "nonsensical".

What exactly you talking on about? What cutscene? Last time I checked, you argued about HP bloat, while everybody told you that there isn't such thing.

But everyone knows that Skyrim is a "fast food" equivalent on RPG's. Skyrim doesn't appear on the most popular list on Codex( https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=11193 ) But Larian games appears. DOS2 appears in 32th position. Above KDC, Dark Sun, Ultima Underworld and Temple of Elemental Evil. ToEE is a masterpiece and DOS is at best a average game.

Not all games in that list "masterpieces" and DOS 2 isn't the worst offender.

 

[Cryomancer]

Here you go: you simply aren't very good at playing spellcasters. That is why you think wizards are weak in BG3.

Wrong. I've soloed BG2 original with Tactics mod and the EE on the Legacy of Bhaal on BG2. Soloed the Lantern King on Unfair on Kingmaker. Instead of saying that I an bad, why not just name one more D&D adaptation where a enchanter can't put a group of low level goblins to sleep and prove me wrong.

Wizards are AWFULLY implemented. When I played, I was able to somehow memorize divine spells. That is the worst BS ever. I don't know if Larian fixed it but it is pure BS, and be able to change spells on the fly, without needing to sleep is another BS. And Druids now are near unkillable, but since they are not arcane casters, you don't see balancefags complaining about it. What Larian did to destroy wizards?

• 1 Summon cap -> You can't even have familiar + mage hand
• Ultra low level cap
• Surfaces effects with concentration. Larian can't even make a firebolt right.
• hp bloat
• Lack of martial companions. I like to have at least 2 melee fighters in my party. And can only have LAE'ZEL
• (...)

BG3 was designed assuming that the PC will ever be a fighter. This is why BG3 is heavily recommended to mage haters. HP bloat is only one problem on BG3.

while everybody told you that there isn't such thing.

Even Swen said that he lowered enemy AC and bloated their HP.

argument about semantics and meaning

No. My point is just that RNG is a core D&D element since ever. If you don't like RNG, go play a game with deterministic outcomes.

Not all games in that list "masterpieces" and DOS 2 isn't the worst offender.

DOS1/2 above ToEE in that list is the worst offender.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Even Swen said that he lowered enemy AC and bloated their HP.

Well, I checked Sharpedge's post (the thing you probably haven't done) and dunno, his arguments are quite convincing. Not to mention, that when I played I haven't had any trouble with beating some shitty goblins.
I haven't seen you complaining about Pathfinder HP bloat btw.

DOS1/2 above ToEE in that list is the worst offender.

And this somehow Larian's or people's who liked their games fault? You know, what else above TOEE? A fucking Witcher 3, yet you affraid dissing it because mob will maul you to death. Hell, I don't agree with NWN2, BG1 and BG2 rated so high and some others. Not to mention that many people called the whole voting system as shit. But yeah, keep tell yourself that Larian is evil and worst. Whatever helps you to sleep at night, I guess.

No. My point is just that RNG is a core D&D element since ever. If you don't like RNG, go play a game with deterministic outcomes.

Who said I don't like RNG in D&D? If I would play BG3 again, I would play it with RNG. Stop making everything personal.

 

[Cryomancer]

trouble with beating some shitty goblins.
I haven't seen you complaining about Pathfinder HP bloat btw.

When you can cast maximized empowered sirroco, the stat bloat on pathfinder is not a problem.

And don't put words into my mouth. Never said that I had trouble beating then. I completed BG3 without having a party member dying a single time. I said that the hp bloat make then BOOOOOOOOOOOORING!!!! My point is not that it makes the game harder, the final encounter of the Dark Sun : Shattered Sands and the later floor(fire node included) of ToEE is hard. HP bloat is just boring.

 

[The_Mask]

Are you saying BG 3 did something wrong?

 

[hell bovine]

Here you go: you simply aren't very good at playing spellcasters. That is why you think wizards are weak in BG3.

Wrong. I've soloed BG2 original with Tactics mod and the EE on the Legacy of Bhaal on BG2. Soloed the Lantern King on Unfair on Kingmaker. Instead of saying that I an bad, why not just name one more D&D adaptation where a enchanter can't put a group of low level goblins to sleep and prove me wrong.

Aren't you also the guy who complained on beamdog forums that Melissan is too difficult for your solo sorcerer, hmm?

I've finished BG3 with a spellcaster party where the closest to a melee fighter was Astarion as an arcane trickster, because you don't need any fighters. There are enough useful spells available. Even sleep, for all your whining, can be useful once you bring down enemies to the hit point range where it works. I'm not sure why you insists on using it on goblins, who are easy anyway, but I have used sleep on redcaps and the gith patrol. The flaming sphere is indestructible, which is quite ridiclous for a low level summon. The new druidic spells are nice additions too. So is darkness or fog with pass without a trace.

 

[Sharpedge]

My favorite part is his little rant about sleep was something I covered in the linked discussion, so we know with absolute certainty he has not read those posts, since he keeps discussing it.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

When you can cast maximized empowered sirroco, the stat bloat on pathfinder is not a problem.

And don't put words into my mouth. Never said that I had trouble beating then. I completed BG3 without having a party member dying a single time. I said that the hp bloat make then BOOOOOOOOOOOORING!!!! My point is not that it makes the game harder, the final encounter of the Dark Sun : Shattered Sands and the later floor(fire node included) of ToEE is hard. HP bloat is just boring.

Goblins are always boring, even with less hp, to make them interesting you need make them act like cunning, sinister bastards. For this you need a really good AI and not much games can boast in this department.
I mean, if some weird dude in robe spitting fire at you, charging in open and tanking damage probably not a good idea.

 

[hell bovine]

My favorite part is his little rant about sleep was something I covered in the linked discussion, so we know with absolute certainty he has not read those posts, since he keeps discussing it.

A bit off-topic to that discussion, if you let priestess Gut put you to sleep (and don't try to free yourself afterwards), you get to meet an interesting lady in the dungeons. BG3 has some fun surprises hidden here and there.

 

[Cryomancer]

can be useful once you bring down enemies to the hit point range where it works

So, Charm spells which are amazing in every low level D&D game(I only soloed iwdee thanks to this spell) are now only able to charm low level goblisn if they take damage. Thanks for confiming that enchantment = worthless.

Aren't you also the guy who complained on beamdog forums that Melissan is too difficult for your solo sorcerer, hmm?

Long and Long years ago and was not melissan. Was the final boss from IWD:EE and I din't complained that he is too hard. And after I had reloaded a save and bought a few scrolls with me, she was dead with no problem.

My favorite part is his little rant about sleep was something I covered in the linked discussion, so we know with absolute certainty he has not read those posts, since he keeps discussing it.

The discussion on Larian's forum was too long. I only readed two posts there.

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But I forgot; If you hate having to hit a lv 3 small goblin with 3 Eldritch Blasts to kill him in a TB game with extremely slow animations, if because you find it too difficulty, not too boring.

 

[Harthwain]

I've soloed BG2 original with Tactics mod and the EE on the Legacy of Bhaal on BG2. Soloed the Lantern King on Unfair on Kingmaker.

1 Summon cap -> You can't even have familiar + mage hand

Ultra low level cap

hp bloat

BG3 was designed assuming that the PC will ever be a fighter. This is why BG3 is heavily recommended to mage haters.

I think I see the problem: you can't summon an army of minions to screen your mage. You can't cast deadly enough spells to thin enemies out fast enough (and the turn-based economy doesn't help either). But that's not enough to justify saying that "BG3 was designed assuming that the PC will ever be a fighter". Larian confirmed a Lone Wolf mode is planned, so theoretically it should be possible to solo the game and it ought to be possible as any class, it's just not there at the moment (probably due to balance reasons).

 

[Reinhardt]

if some weird dude in DRESS

fixed

 

[Cryomancer]

ou can't cast deadly enough spells to thin enemies out fast enough (and the turn-based economy doesn't help either). But that's not enough to justify saying that "BG3 was designed assuming that the PC will ever be a fighter". Larian confirmed a Lone Wolf mode is planned, so theoretically it should be possible to solo the game and it ought to be possible as any class, it's just not there at the moment (probably due to balance reasons).

Nope. and on BG2 and onwards, you can't have a minion army either. Your summons are capped to 5. That is very different than or a familiar or a mage hand. But I said that Vincke did every alteration that he could with no regard to casters.

And before "hp bloat doesn't exist", read this topic > https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...oat_on_lowerlevel_enemies_upsets_the_balance/

And yes, when I watched the showcase, I remember that Goblins had way less hp

"Take Scorching Ray, for instance. While its chance to hit was increased due to the change, this spell does 3 attacks dealing 2d6 fire damage each. Statistically speaking, 2d6 fire damage might be enough to kill a regular 7 hp Goblin given its average damage of 8 per Ray, and being able to hit multiple Goblins meant there was a good chance of clearing several enemies off the battlefield rather quickly, but now even if a single Ray rolls max damage, it likely won't kill a single Goblin, and the average damage of all 3 Rays (24) might not even kill some Goblins that have 25+ hp (and it's unlikely that all 3 Rays will hit, even with the changes made)."

Do I recommend Baldur's Gate 3? I would recommend for caster haters, but sadly even they can't make a full martial party. And some caster haters here wanna 0 mages in their party.

 

[Storyfag]

"Take Scorching Ray, for instance. While its chance to hit was increased due to the change, this spell does 3 attacks dealing 2d6 fire damage each. Statistically speaking, 2d6 fire damage might be enough to kill a regular 7 hp Goblin given its average damage of 8 per Ray, and being able to hit multiple Goblins meant there was a good chance of clearing several enemies off the battlefield rather quickly, but now even if a single Ray rolls max damage, it likely won't kill a single Goblin, and the average damage of all 3 Rays (24) might not even kill some Goblins that have 25+ hp (and it's unlikely that all 3 Rays will hit, even with the changes made)."

Complete and utter bollocks. Firstly, the average damage per Ray is 7 rather than 8 (learn some probability maths people! ). Secondly, 3 Rays on average (21 dmg) would have been insufficient to kill a tabletop Goblin Boss (22 hp). Thirdly you need to hit with the Rays in the first place, so the rant is retarded.

You just seem to be a disgrace to our arcane brotherhood, Victor.

 

[Reinhardt]

You just seem to be a disgrace to our arcane brotherhood, Victor.

Take his dress away.

 

[Cryomancer]

You just seem to be a disgrace to our arcane brotherhood, Victor.

I an just quoting a topic on reddit. Many people on TT round averages up. I know that the real average of a d6 is 3.5, but people who use AVR for level up generally round up to 4.

 

[hell bovine]

Aren't you also the guy who complained on beamdog forums that Melissan is too difficult for your solo sorcerer, hmm?

Long and Long years ago and was not melissan. Was the final boss from IWD:EE and I din't complained that he is too hard. And after I had reloaded a save and bought a few scrolls with me, she was dead with no problem.

And yet here you are, complaining about Melissan being too difficult:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1079914#Comment_1079914

 

[Sharpedge]

ou can't cast deadly enough spells to thin enemies out fast enough (and the turn-based economy doesn't help either). But that's not enough to justify saying that "BG3 was designed assuming that the PC will ever be a fighter". Larian confirmed a Lone Wolf mode is planned, so theoretically it should be possible to solo the game and it ought to be possible as any class, it's just not there at the moment (probably due to balance reasons).

Nope. and on BG2 and onwards, you can't have a minion army either. Your summons are capped to 5. That is very different than or a familiar or a mage hand. But I said that Vincke did every alteration that he could with no regard to casters.

And before "hp bloat doesn't exist", read this topic > https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...oat_on_lowerlevel_enemies_upsets_the_balance/

And yes, when I watched the showcase, I remember that Goblins had way less hp

"Take Scorching Ray, for instance. While its chance to hit was increased due to the change, this spell does 3 attacks dealing 2d6 fire damage each. Statistically speaking, 2d6 fire damage might be enough to kill a regular 7 hp Goblin given its average damage of 8 per Ray, and being able to hit multiple Goblins meant there was a good chance of clearing several enemies off the battlefield rather quickly, but now even if a single Ray rolls max damage, it likely won't kill a single Goblin, and the average damage of all 3 Rays (24) might not even kill some Goblins that have 25+ hp (and it's unlikely that all 3 Rays will hit, even with the changes made)."

Do I recommend Baldur's Gate 3? I would recommend for caster haters, but sadly even they can't make a full martial party. And some caster haters here wanna 0 mages in their party.

That reddit post is the discussion I referred to in my argument on the Larian forums, referring to it as a surface level analysis which if you put any proper effort into analyzing you will find is full of shit.

 

[Cryomancer]

And yet here you are, complaining about Melissan being too difficult:

Yep. Sorry for commiting the ultimate heresy of not beating a game in the hardest difficulty first time with a suboptimal build, having troubles and having to reload to fight her with potions and scrolls. I was without healing items, without scrolls and suboptimal stats, unable to fully explore wish spell. Now I can beat her solo with no problem. Anyway, check this video.

Soloing 2 "impossible" ratting dragons as a mid level sorcerer on nwn1. If you check screenshot thread, you will see that I had no problem on KotC1, on Dark Sun games, kingmaker and on BG2.