Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sharpedge]

What is Vatican magic system

It is the one where if you believe hard enough, miracles will apparently happen.

 

[fantadomat]

Every time Lilura uses the word "authoritative", I get a headache.

Deal with it, son.

Never in my life have I heard this turn of phrase used, or written, by a woman.

You don't listen to a lot of rap do you, son?

Rap is the worst shit ever invented,just before sliced bread! You really need a man to put you in place and give you some class.

 

[fantadomat]

What is Vatican magic system

It is magic where you talk a lot and wave your hands around till magical sparks come out if it. Also you have to rest to do it again. The pope is the grand master of this school of magic tho.

 

[smaug]

Behead anyone who insults THAC0, and mount their head on a pike for the crows to peck at.

Yesterday the 'tards were trying to insult and distort the glorious Vancian magic system. Today it's THAC0. Stay tuned for tomorrow, when the 'tards try to insult and distort another sacred legacy, and get suppressed yet again.

You mean a system that translates so poorly into storytelling that every author writing novels/stories/comics within a universe containing Vancian magic simply ignore it?

*Storytelling*
Fucking storyfag.

 

[Thal]

How much is EE different from the original?!

I could just self-cite certain write-ups but I'll give someone else the opportunity to nail it. *friendly*

BG1EE is run with BG2 engine, and with BG2 rules. However, BG1 is balanced and designed around BG1 rules. The biggest change is the expanded proficiency point system, which means that you can no longer specialize on large swords, and be able to handle long swords and two-handed swords equally well. Now you you're going to have to choose, which leads to tailoring your character around one end game weapon that your character is going to depend on the entire game. BG1 depended on the original proficiency system, and hand-placed gear accordingly, so you could use a variety of magic weapons, even if you didn't search through every nook and cranny. For a new player, exploration will be very frustrating. Veterans will metagame. Companions are also redesigned. Want to make Minsc a sword and board fighter? Can't do it anymore. Shar-Teel is a dual wielder now, and can't get high mastery in long swords. IF you want to dual her into Thief, you need to take reduced THAC0 into account.

When you access inventory, the game remains paused in EE, which completely alters the feel of combat. This shit matters for low level combat, and in the original BG1 you had to plan your loadout in advance or suffer the consequences. Quick slots had meaning, especially since consumables are plentiful and powerful. If you equip your mage with a wand, its one less slot for healing potions or antidotes. Minsc's drawback was that he had only 2 slots due to Boo.

Magic system is different due to new spells, which are afaik also used by enemies. Mirror image is the nerfed BG2 version, which means that enemy has chance to get hits through, which reduces survivability of low level mages. This also makes enemy mages less dangerous, so all encounters with mages are different now. Then there is smaller stuff like not being able to dual class into specialist mages. Levels were designed for the original resolution view distance. Even walk speed matters, since enemies respawn in fog of war.

And this is even if you ignore new companions. The biggest offender is Dorn, with his 19 strength, which ensures an insane THC bonus, and completely ruins the expertly designed choice between Edwin (the best mage) and Minsc (the strongest warrior). Yes, I know you can shank Dynaheir and get Edwin anyway.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

The game is going to be a Final Fantasy 15 clone I'm pretty sure. Party-based, round-based action combat. You can quote this post when it turns out to be true. There's just no other explanation that works. Isometric or turn-based is too niche for a 300+ employee studio doing an AAA game, and it's not going to be full out action either. FF15 style, watch.

 

[Delterius]

What is Vatican magic system

It is magic where you talk a lot and wave your hands around till magical sparks come out if it. Also you have to rest to do it again. The pope is the grand master of this school of magic tho.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I'd rather give Dragon Age: Origins as an example.

DA:O is too niche too, nobody is doing that style of game so I doubt they will have a tactical time-pause mode. I'm telling you, it will be the action combat of FF15, which was very good, fast-paced and fun. But it will still be stat-dependent and based on the D&D rules. It's got to be that IMO.

 

[Mortmal]

The game is going to be a Final Fantasy 15 clone I'm pretty sure. Party-based, round-based action combat. You can quote this post when it turns out to be true. There's just no other explanation that works. Isometric or turn-based is too niche for a 300+ employee studio doing an AAA game, and it's not going to be full out action either. FF15 style, watch.

FF15 style that's pretty much like dragon's dogma or dragon age inquisition.It's extremely likely it works like one of those. Cant wait for the shitstorm.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

FF15 style that's pretty much like dragon's dogma or dragon age inquisition.It's extremely likely it works like one of those. Cant wait for the shitstorm.

I'm ready for it. Open-world Forgotten Realms, fast action-like combat. Hell yeah. Dragon's Dogma is full out action though, and Inquisition is a RTWP hybrid, so I still say it will be closer to FF15, which is not full out action but a round-based type of action combat.

 

[Mortmal]

FF15 is the less fun of the three although. It felt a bit clunky sometime.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Of course THAC0 is better than hit/AC value from D&D 3ed, just like using the length of 1650763.73 wavelengths in a vacuum of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the 2p10 and 5d5 quantum levels of the krypton-86 atom is better than using 1 meter for measuring things.

First you have to define what is a "meter".

 

[Fairfax]

Something tells me there is a near complete overlap of people who claim to "like" THAC0 and people whose only experience with it involves computer games.

People whose experience actually involves PnP AD&D know that almost everyone ignored weapon speed factors and armour adjustments, including Gygax himself. The game was made to work just fine without them, and such changes were actively encouraged by the DMG. The vast majority just used the normal attack matrices, which look like this:

THAC0 was already used by the 1E DMG monster tables, but many players houseruled it for PCs as well (the repeated 20s had to be checked/adapted/ignored). It became popular enough that official modules started to use it, and it eventually became the standard in 2E.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You mean a system that translates so poorly into storytelling that every author writing novels/stories/comics within a universe containing Vancian magic simply ignores it?

Oh no, however would the authors use a system that originated in storybooks in their own storybooks?

 

[HarveyBirdman]

I don't know if anyone said, since the doomsday spreging has taken over, but Sven did say that they implemented D&D as is, and then made alterations when it didn't work for a video game.

How would they have done that, if not by implementing TB and rolls?

Think for a second.

To me, that means that their fix for misses isn't to remove rolls all together, but tweak them. Either reducing Difficulty Checks for "normal" difficulty, or most likely introducing grazes.

Unless Sven lied, I don't see a fully implemented TB system being tweaked so that it becomes an action system.

I have it on good authority that most attacks will have a 100% chance to hit, while certain high risk/high reward attacks will have a lesser chance. Status effects and weather/environemnts will further reduce or increase accuracy. No grazing mechanic.

 

[Stella Brando]

Wow, I just learnt about the Dark Sun setting. Its like a mixture of Conan and Mad Max. Why am I making friends with faggy elves when I could be adventuring there?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Why am I making friends with faggy elves when I could be adventuring there

There are but two good games in that setting. And both in gog, so git.

 

[vortex]

Wow, I just learnt about the Dark Sun setting. Its like a mix of Conan and Mad Max. Why am I making friends with faggy elves when I could be adventuring there?

I have a feeling if BG3 proves to be successful, we'll see all kind of new games.

 

[Chippy]

How much is EE different from the original?!

I could just self-cite certain write-ups but I'll give someone else the opportunity to nail it. *friendly*

BG1EE is run with BG2 engine, and with BG2 rules. However, BG1 is balanced and designed around BG1 rules. The biggest change is the expanded proficiency point system, which means that you can no longer specialize on large swords, and be able to handle long swords and two-handed swords equally well. Now you you're going to have to choose, which leads to tailoring your character around one end game weapon that your character is going to depend on the entire game. BG1 depended on the original proficiency system, and hand-placed gear accordingly, so you could use a variety of magic weapons, even if you didn't search through every nook and cranny. For a new player, exploration will be very frustrating. Veterans will metagame. Companions are also redesigned. Want to make Minsc a sword and board fighter? Can't do it anymore. Shar-Teel is a dual wielder now, and can't get high mastery in long swords. IF you want to dual her into Thief, you need to take reduced THAC0 into account.

When you access inventory, the game remains paused in EE, which completely alters the feel of combat. This shit matters for low level combat, and in the original BG1 you had to plan your loadout in advance or suffer the consequences. Quick slots had meaning, especially since consumables are plentiful and powerful. If you equip your mage with a wand, its one less slot for healing potions or antidotes. Minsc's drawback was that he had only 2 slots due to Boo.

Magic system is different due to new spells, which are afaik also used by enemies. Mirror image is the nerfed BG2 version, which means that enemy has chance to get hits through, which reduces survivability of low level mages. This also makes enemy mages less dangerous, so all encounters with mages are different now. Then there is smaller stuff like not being able to dual class into specialist mages. Levels were designed for the original resolution view distance. Even walk speed matters, since enemies respawn in fog of war.

And this is even if you ignore new companions. The biggest offender is Dorn, with his 19 strength, which ensures an insane THC bonus, and completely ruins the expertly designed choice between Edwin (the best mage) and Minsc (the strongest warrior). Yes, I know you can shank Dynaheir and get Edwin anyway.

Don't know if people bring this up much; but the pause thing was actually an incredibly big deal for me. Someone linked to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InidOBDbbSs playing SCS and all seals in Watcher's Keep. It was amazing how every few seconds he brought his inventory up, and started shuffling weapons and items around like he was playing tetris. I could never do that, as it always broke immersion for me. Imagine a party of 6 fighting some epic battle, and throwing each other items and weapons like they were a circus juggling act...

I suppose that's why I was impressed by the only thing the EE did right, by introducing quick weapon slots as they did. Although there is a mod that does it with the aid of a third party tool for the non-enhanced edition.

 

[Stella Brando]

Why am I making friends with faggy elves when I could be adventuring there

There are but two good games in that setting. And both in gog, so git.

Thanks, I'll look into those, AVYRKADO.

 

[DeepOcean]

Swen is a bro, right?

Is there such a thing as "bro" when you are talking a shitton of money? Just look to all kickstarers where developers betrayed backers left and right and sold out to Epic as soon as they could. We were used and disposed as soon as they didn't need us.

BG 3 has all the markings for a massive popamole success, to be a massive hit, to make Larian at least a belgian Bioware, we have all the components here, recognizable name (even if most people didn't play the BG games they know that name through gaming media), DnD is becoming popular again (Matt Mercer just did a DnD session with a famous comedian just one of those days), high production values, Larian having a good name with gaming journalists that will spread awareness, this could hit big but not as TB or even as a RtwP (unless extremely bastardized). Why Larian would sacrifice that opportunity to make a niche game? If they wanted to make a TB game, they could just make DOS 3 and don't deal with the hassle of paying a license to only sell 2 million copies (for a high production game, 2 millions copies is a joke).

Is Swen a bro? Don't count with that, son, you will get yourself burn.

 

[Reinhardt]

Mage=awesome button. If he don't explode shit he don't deserve his share in loot.

 

[abnaxus]

Swen will bring back strength caps for wymmyn.

 

[Shadenuat]

So any news or last 60 pages is just arguing about THAC0 again?

 

[Parabalus]

The easiest way to conceptualize it is Lilura's post: THAC0 - enemy AC = d20 roll needed to hit. That's it.

And 3.0 (and PoE) is AC - AB = d20 needed to hit.

It's all the same shit really.