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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Fairfax

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So a ranger can:

- Shoot arrows
- Wear some armor
- Fight with a sword
- Track some shit
- Have an animal companion
- Skin hides
- Help the party survive in the wilds
- Wear cool green hoods
- Shoot some more arrows

What else is he supposed to do? Weave baskets?
The 5E Ranger is either worse or not significantly better than other classes at these things, and the animal companions are rubbish. Some of the new subclasses and spells made the Ranger much better, but many still consider it an underwhelming class.
 

Sabotin

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Is Minsc still actually a ranger, not some barbarian class or something?

It's not the first time some rules would be adapted. Kinda sad everything has to be systemic though, they could have just added some RP function on a few places in the game and make it feel more organic instead. It's not DnD's fault your DM doesn't give a crap about your class abilities... Balancing can easily be done with equipment instead if that's an issue, and I'm not sure what kind of super impactful decisions about builds people want to make in the first few levels?
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Minsc is technically a Rashemi Berserker, not a ranger, sooo beats me what they'll do with him when he inevitably appears.
 
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This whole nothingburger announcement makes me feel like Al Swearengen (like this should be a good thing, but I/he knows something is wrong) in this scene from Deadwood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNCBG2pTl10 For anyone who has seen this excellent series; this was just part 1.
Part 2 was when the doctor tried to remove the kidney stone without anesthetic - that'll be when Larian eventually tell us what the gameplay is like, and they're gonna remove all the things that are obstructing fun gameplay.
Part 3 will be when he actually has the kidney stone removed with the help of a prostitue that works for him - that'll be when Larian try to convince us that they're moving things in the right direction.

funny I was just re-watching deadwood and watched that scene yesterday. Hilarious.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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The problem of Rangers in D&D has always been that it's basically a cross between a Druid and a Rogue/Thief and they've never really gotten anything truly unique to them to justify their existence gameplay wise. In a tabletop setting, where their non-combat utility can shine, they are ok, but in video games they've always been less than meh. It's good they are trying to find/invent something cool about them.
The ranger class was first introduced in The Strategic Review #2 as a sub-class of fighting men, similar to the paladin class introduced in Supplement I: Greyhawk, but receiving both magical and clerical spells at higher levels. The inspiration for it was Aragorn-as-Strider from the early portion of the Lord of the Rings. As revised for formal inclusion in AD&D, the ranger class was described as "a sub-class of fighter who are adept at woodcraft, tracking, scouting, and infiltration and spying" and gained both magical and druidic spells at higher levels. It wasn't until AD&D 2nd edition that rangers had any connection to the rogue/thief group/class, and even here the ranger class was still part of the warrior group alongside fighters and paladins, depending primarily on skill-at-arms.
 

anvi

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The problem of Rangers in D&D has always been that it's basically a cross between a Druid and a Rogue/Thief and they've never really gotten anything truly unique to them to justify their existence gameplay wise. In a tabletop setting, where their non-combat utility can shine, they are ok, but in video games they've always been less than meh. It's good they are trying to find/invent something cool about them.
I agree, except for Vanguard. That ranger was great, all their classes were amazing. *long sigh*
 

Fairfax

Arcane
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Ah, yet another person tainted by the plague known as minmaxing. And yet here you are, on the Codex, mocking popamole, while at the same time carrying its mortal sin. Rangers aren't "the best" at anything, you say? Let's remove them as a class. And bards, they're also far too "unoptimized".
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about (especially my opinions on munchkinism), and your reading comprehension is atrocious. Where did I share my opinion or complain about the Ranger's mechanical power? It is a fact that the Ranger is bad/not particularly good at the things I quoted, and it's also fact that many players find the 5E Ranger underwhelming. It's why WotC made two UA revisions for the class, with the last Revised Ranger being widely accepted as a replacement for the PHB version. Also, if you knew anything about 5E, you wouldn't use the Bard as an example there.
 
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jesus you tards sperging about the story and the gods and the sundering and shit, who gives a rats ass? I have played D&D since 1981, played all the CRPG's and the BG, NWN and IWD series numerous times over and I have no idea what you are talking about; even when playing the games I have no idea what they are talking about when they start rambling on about various gods and where they are and if they ascended or descended or had a half goat child with a mortal, its laborious to read and I don't really care... and the games are great anyway.

Who is and who is not a god and if they are going to be there or not or what sundering it is will have almost zero influence on if BG3 is fun to play or not.

But I guess I just don't get into that part of D&D or something. I don't like the god stuff or the planes, so I guess I am biased against it from the start. I do sort of enjoy the various demons and devils, but only to a point. Once they start going on and on about the planes and shit I lose interest.
 
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The biggest issue to me is, Mearls and WotC are primarily marketing D&D tabletop products to people who pay 100 dollars for art commissions such as this:

ZHo0IMV.jpg


Looking at various Facebook, forum and reddit D&D 5E communities over the last 3-4 years, D&D 5E the tabletop game seems to be primarily used as a medium for the queers, socially challenged and the furries to live out their fantasies. It no longer has anything to do with what IE games were about in spirit and tone, nor with the tone that even most current 5E modules try to set. If WotC pushes Larian towards designing a "diverse" fantasy toolkit for weebs and furries, things may turn out a lot worse than the popamole game many of you fear.

yeah why is this? Even that dude ( CEO or VP of D&D or something?) following Sven around to the interviews looks like he sexually abuses a stuffed animal collection every night. Why and when did this happen?
 
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. Should D&D just do away with dice then?
D&D isn't a videogame
if this were moviecodex there would be demands that every movie be identical to books. The idea that cinematography even exists or should be acknowledged would be a minority opinion.
dice meaning RNG when speaking about CRPG is pretty common nomenclature unless you have Aspergers and can't help but be distracted while you hyper focus on trying to imagine literal dice being tossed in a mass market CRPG
 
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I have no idea what they are talking about when they start rambling on about various gods and where they are and if they ascended or descended or had a half goat child with a mortal, its laborious to read and I don't really care... and the games are great anyway.
Story in games is the worst.
its fine, but I actually feel modern games and gamers focus too much on it and not enough on thew actual game part. I also notice that it seems like the more focused a game is on story often the less I like it, possibly because that is where their effort is and I am playing a game instead of reading a book. If somebody can do both parts good, then I am all for it... but its not as important as many people make it out to be imo, and I think its often over emphasized.

A game with a bad story can still be fun to play but a game with a good story but shitty game play is not fun imo.
 
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Another thing that has been eating me - in EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW, Vincke gives the same example about "interactivity" and "freedom of player actions" in BG3 - "so we get in a bar fight and I want to hit you with this chair and use it as a weapon, but I also want to set it on fire!"

This comes through as the most pointless, most needless sort of interactivity that's usually a huge dent on a game's budget and comes through, contrary to designer intent, as the most forced and artificial.
I think it's obvious that at this point of time they've only got a handful of details that they want to reveal or mention in the interviews. It's hardly a surprise they managed to run their own interviews into the ground when all 60 or 80 of them contained the exact same stuff.
But yes, I agree that if that statement should be considered a hint at the players being able to pick up and use furniture as weapons easily can end up feeling forcibly placed for the sake of 'player freedom' - not unlike conveniently placed red barrels of gas (or in Original Sin 1 and 2's case, barrels of oil or ooze)
Sure, using a table or chair in a bar brawl would be thematically fitting and could actually be a nice optional addition if implemented tastefully and in a scarce amount, but I really don't hope this means every major fight is going to be in an area with at least two sets of dining tables solely so some random person has the possibility of doing a 'furniture only' type of playthrough.
lol furniture only play through..bar stool +1/+4 against drunks
 
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Why? That shit leads to hilarious situations in PnP DnD sessions
Which is exactly why I believe Larian has to tread carefully if they wish to implement it. In the interviews we've seen so far, Swen has been giving the impression that BG3 seeks to imitate the same levels of possibilities for emergent gameplay that tabletop DnD can offer.
As I said before, I can easily believe that you'd be able to pick up a chair and throw it at whoever you're fighting inside a building, especially if it fits thematically like a bar brawl against a bunch of drunkards (who would also have the opportunity to throw the other chairs back at you)
But I'll have to draw the line if the game starts placing furniture and various types of decorative art in unlikely locations just so the player has the opportunity to lob them at their foes. You expect me to believe there's an intact mahogany table with accompanying chairs placed at the scene of every major fight, even if they take place in the middle of the forest, at a riverbed or any other outdoors location away from civilisation? Nah

in DoS there were random barrels of oil and oozel and shit like 400 miles from any city on some hidden game trail..
 
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What I have a problem with is the fact that only an idiotic fighter would be bothering with the mahogany table when they have a perfectly good weapon to start with in whatever sword they're already using.

a good application might be like if the players were arrested or had to surrender weapons to enter some castle or city mayor house etc...or like that old AD&D module (escape from the pit of the slavelords or something?") where 7th level characters are captured as slaves and put in some dungeon completely stripped of weapons and armor and have to get out...that type of thing..
 
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A game with a bad story can still be fun to play but a game with a good story but shitty game play is not fun imo.
have you bothered to look at codex's top ranked RPGs?
and I disagree with many of the choices, or perhaps its more like planscape is the exception that proves the rule.

I also prefer IWD to Bg, but most people don't I guess-- but the heavy story emphasis is not just a coincident of the decline, its one of the causes IMO. The severity of its influence on decline can be argued, but i believe making games for people who want to play movies is part of what has made for bad CRPG's..
 
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Ismaul

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The problem of Rangers in D&D has always been that it's basically a cross between a Druid and a Rogue/Thief and they've never really gotten anything truly unique to them to justify their existence gameplay wise.
They wanted to make Aragorn a class is basically the problem.

They tried giving it some defining features in various editions with mild success. Such as "Oh he's the archer guy". But what about any other character that's an archer and takes archery feats? And it's pretty limiting to tie a whole class to one weapon. "Oh he's the two-weapon fighting guy." Same issue, anyone can do it with feats. "Oh you can choose one or the other." Same. "Oh he's the animal companion dude now, not the wizard." "Let's give him favored enemies and terrain." But what if we don't fight them or go there? "Oh I know let's make him a nature caster."

Every edition the focus changes a bit. And then alternate versions always come out to "fix" it for those who like it another way. Problem is, the concept of a "ranger" hasn't had a clear definition from which class features would be derived. It's way too much a mix of Rogue, Fighter, and sometimes Druid to have something of its own. And then there's the whole tradition problem: if you were to invent a unifying feature that defined the class, people would balk at it as they have gotten used to conceiving rangers a certain way, even if it varies from person to person. So now Rangers are just an amalgam of class features that have no clear unifying concept.

Personally I liked the 3.5E Scout better. Focus on mobility. But it was very much tied to that iteration of rules.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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The reason a "ranger" class exists is because imagination-impaired people wanted to "be Aragorn". In reality, this is a fighter-rogue who is good at tracking/working in the wilds. Done. You don't need a class for that at all.
 

Rpguy

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Vincke:
If you look at what the Fifth Edition has done, characters like Boo and Minsc are still alive, Bhaal and maybe a couple of other guys are still around. What’s gonna happen with that? You’re gonna discover when you play BG3.
 

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