Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

Varying degrees of shit is still shit.

 

[Grauken]

Don't worry guys, despite your differences, Larian will make sure it'll turn out shit for all your different needs, on any level, whether you are a story-fag, combat-fag, systems-fag or any other fag

 

[Harry Easter]

Varying degrees of shit is still shit.

Good to know, that Spoonys spirit still lives on.

 

[Reinhardt]

but you people haven't seen true shit.

Nigga, it's general rpg games subforum. It's literally made for shit.

 

[Life of the Party]

I've seen shit you people wouldn't believe. Attack shits on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams shitter in the street near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those shits will be lost in time, like smears in rain. Time to poop.

 

[whocares]

I will not eat the bugs. I will not live in a pod. I will not use 2FA.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Vancian magic makes perfect sense in Jack Vance's Dying Earth setting, and it was this magic system that was adopted for Dungeons & Dragons, with similar justification.

I should have quoted Gary Gygax, from his essay "Jack Vance & the D&D Game": Just what portions of these works, the subsequent AD&D game, stemmed from inspiration related to the writing of Jack Vance? Several elements, the unquestioned foremost being the magic system used in these games. To my way of thinking, the concept of a spell itself being magical, that its written form carried energy, seemed a perfect way to balance the mage against other types of characters in the game. The memorization of the spell required time and concentration so as to impart not merely the written content but also its magical energies. When subsequently cast—by speaking or some other means—the words or gestures, or whatever triggered the magical force of the spell, leaving a blank place in the brain where the previously memorized spell had been held. Because I explained this often, attributing its inspiration to Jack Vance, the D&D magic system of memorized then forgotten spells was dubbed by gamers “the Vancian magic system”.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Regardless of whether or not it makes sense, the Vancian system adds a layer of strategic resource management that cooldown based magic removes.

Now, if you make it easy to rest spam, you take away that strategic layer. Throw in some time limits or some barriers to resting in dungeons (ahem, Kingmaker) and you bring back the magical resource management. I really love this. But I doubt we’ll see any of it in BG3.

 

[Tao]

My only problem with Vancian system is the fact that, as a Wizard, you had to prepare and select what spell (and in what number) to use for the day even when you already need to find and learn the spells. To me that's quite a turn off from my idea of a what a mage is.

On a side note, i think the class arcanist from pathfinder is a nice compromise on the system btw vancian and the sorcerer system and should be more explored in pnp/crpg

edit: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/

 

[Hamlet]

Well, the vancian system no longer survives in D&D 5e, so the discussion is moot. You do 'prepare' spells, a number equal to your level plus your casting stat modifier, from a spell book/spell list. But, now, you can use any available spell slot you possess, of the spell's level or higher, to cast it. Apologists call the system 'neo-vancian' casting, if you were curious.

 

[Elex]

it’s still the same system. Only less cumbersome to use.
the system even add a new tactical and strategic element of upcasting spell.
this also reduce the number of clone spells that do the same thing at a different level. (like the game have only one version of cure wound and inflict wound)
each spell have one line or two that explain the upcasting effect, like more damage or more targets.

 

[Cross]

Yes, Vancian magic makes much more sense than cooldowns.

When I learn something and memorize it, as soon as I recall the memory my mind erases that memory right away.

Vancian magic makes much more sense than cooldowns, yes (unsurprisingly, since it's a system derived from literature).

In most games spells are very discrete things. You can use 'Fireball' to deal a certain amount of fire damage within an AoE of a certain size. But you usually can't adjust those parameters or manipulate the fire freely. This limitation doesn't make much sense with a cooldown-based system, since cooldowns mean you can use magic freely.

In a Vancian system however, where a spell functions like a specific type of ammunition that is expended when it is cast, such a limitation makes perfect sense. And like ammunition, that spell has to be prepared and loaded ('memorized') in advance.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Well, the vancian system no longer survives in D&D 5e, so the discussion is moot. You do 'prepare' spells, a number equal to your level plus your casting stat modifier, from a spell book/spell list. But, now, you can use any available spell slot you possess, of the spell's level or higher, to cast it. Apologists call the system 'neo-vancian' casting, if you were curious.

Yeah. It's basically a glorified mana system with tiers. It could be better, but it could be much worse.

 

[Space Satan]

I cna't remember, did Viconia died at the end of throne of Bhaal?

 

[Space Satan]

They could just ignore BG1 and 2 choices just like our beloved pink haired LGBTWASJASUQ Legends of RPG in Bioware did with Leliana's reattached head.

 

[Space Satan]

They could just ignore BG1 and 2 choices just like our beloved pink haired LGBTWASJASUQ Legends of RPG in Bioware did with Leliana's reattached head.

You're completely wrong. There is a reason for Leliana being alive if you kill her in Origins. She isn't Leliana. She's a Fade-made simulacrum, a spirit impersonating her.

Gaider's forum hysterical outburst and banning spree says otherwise.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Reminder that nothing that happens in the dragon age series is worse than what BG2 did to Ajantis.
Nothing.

 

[Cryomancer]

Baldur’s Gate 3 will shape Dungeons and Dragons’ future story and maybe design


source : https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/dungeons-and-dragons-6th-edition

That’s a possible allusion to D&D’s in-universe story, but Larian might have inspired some soul-searching at a mechanical level, too, citing D&D’s spell slots system as an example.

“We’ve gotten some pushback on some game mechanics,” Mearls admits. “You [indicating Vincke] have talked about how spell slots might not be the most intuitive thing. One of the things with Dungeons and Dragons, which I think is very important, is the method by which we do things is not as important for tabletop players as the actual effect on the table.”

4e was an pnp generic mmo.
5e retorned to the D&D roots but streamlined a lot of things
6e will be an pnp puzzle "fake" rpg like ds2

 

[Space Satan]

Reminder that nothing that happens in the dragon age series is worse than what BG2 did to Ajantis.
Nothing.

He was a worthless wimp and deserved that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Baldur’s Gate 3 will shape Dungeons and Dragons’ future story and maybe design


source : https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/dungeons-and-dragons-6th-edition

That’s a possible allusion to D&D’s in-universe story, but Larian might have inspired some soul-searching at a mechanical level, too, citing D&D’s spell slots system as an example.

“We’ve gotten some pushback on some game mechanics,” Mearls admits. “You [indicating Vincke] have talked about how spell slots might not be the most intuitive thing. One of the things with Dungeons and Dragons, which I think is very important, is the method by which we do things is not as important for tabletop players as the actual effect on the table.”

4e was an pnp generic mmo.
5e retorned to the D&D roots but streamlined a lot of things
6e will be an pnp puzzle "fake" rpg like ds2

PnP is complete trash at this point only played by larpers. Larian could only improve it.

 

[Cryomancer]

PnP is complete trash at this point only played by larpers. Larian could only improve it.

Improve how? Making the battle an envorimental puzzle? Removing spell slots and giving cooldowns? Making your INT/STR being influentied by the boots that you are wearing like dos2? 5e is not perfect. I prefer pathfinder but honestly, say that larian could only improve is BS.

Over 99,9% of times that an dev changed things from pnp, was for wrost.
Warlocks on nwn2 are borderline unplayable without mods that fixes the DC bugs and make it more pnp-like.
Pale Masters are useless on NWN1. Only one summon and no caster level
Arcane Archers only able to imbue fire is useless too since fire is extremely resisted
(...)
Sword Coast Legends tried to rewrite all D&D rules and the studio failed.

The unique change that din't ruined an class and i know is the Dragon Disciple in IWD/BG:EE that you can just not use the class if you wanna an more pure experience.

 

[Elex]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have just finished reading "Descent into Avernus". Below I present the only two passages alluding to CHARNAME:

"Over the years, Baldur's Gate has harbored countless evil schemes and conspiracies. Perhaps the most dastardly, though, was that perpetrated by Bhaal, god of murder. who foresaw his own death during the Time of Troubles. While in mortal form, Bhaal conceived multitudes of offspring, plotting to have them resurrect him. They actively hunted and slew each other, with the survi·vors collecting ever more of Bhaal's godly essence. Sarevok, a Bhaalspawn and member of the Iron Throne merchants' guild, sought to spark war with the nation of Arnn and become the new Lord of Murder. Another Bhaalspawn, aided by powerful allies, thwarted Sarevok's plan and brought stability, if not peace, to Baldur's Gate once more. Yet, Bhaal and his faithful have menaced the city ever since."

And later on:
"Every now and then, rumors surface that a powerful political figure is a Bhaalspawn."

It seems that something is brewing with Larian/Wizards of the Coast, and whether on not Abdel Adrian will remain a canonical CHARNAME is still up in the air.

abdel adrian is still charname, descent follow the event of murder in baldurs gate
https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/murder-baldurs-gate
in the end it does not matter: all the gods are back, at the best you can have avatars (unlikely) or chosen of a certain god.

 

[Ismaul]

Making your INT/STR being influentied by the boots that you are wearing like dos2?

This never happens in DOS2, I have no idea where you got that from. Boots never influence the Str or Int stat. Main attributes (Str, Int or Finesse) increases are limited to a couple of equipment pieces: not all, especially not the boots.

If you mean that in general some pieces of gear have attribute bonuses, well that's nothing new. D&D always has had belts of giant strength, cloaks of charisma, and all that +stat shit. The PnP game has less +stat items than DOS2 sure, but remember D&D operates on a 3-18 scale for attributes, while DOS2 is on a 10-40 scale, which means a +1 in DOS2 in worth less than half a +1 in D&D.

 

[Lacrymas]

Pale Masters are useless on NWN1. Only one summon and no caster level

I always get triggered when I see something like this. Yes, Pale Masters don't get caster levels or more spells, aka using them as casters/necromancer-stand-ins is not the way to go. You use them for melee for those juicy defenses and the summon is a bonus (also cool factor). Cleric/Pale Master/Bard is quite a sight to behold. Bard/Rogue (or Assassin)/Pale Master also seems like a cool combo I'd like to try some day.

 

[Cryomancer]

I always get triggered when I see something like this. Yes, Pale Masters don't get caster levels or more spells, aka using them as casters/necromancer-stand-ins is not the way to go. You use them for melee for those juicy defenses and the summon is a bonus (also cool factor). Cleric/Pale Master/Bard is quite a sight to behold. Bard/Rogue (or Assassin)/Pale Master also seems like a cool combo I'd like to try some day.

So the class is good as longs you don't use the class for necromancy.... And use pale master to melee. Amazing implementation. Next time i wanna see Barbarian casting spells.

If you mean that in general some pieces of gear have attribute bonuses, well that's nothing new. D&D always has had belts of giant strength, cloaks of charisma, and all that +stat shit. The PnP game has less +stat items than DOS2 sure, but remember D&D operates on a 3-18 scale for attributes, while DOS2 is on a 10-40 scale, which means a +1 in DOS2 in worth less than half a +1 in D&D.

Non stacking bonuses is far different than the mmo-like thing on D:OS2. You can replicate most gear effects with spells and on 5e, you can only attune 3 magical items for each time. On DOS2, i was unable to build my char the way that i want because i found no helm to increase my INT/STR... And i hate when RPG games become more "gear playing game"

Even on DDO who have a lot of mmo BS, including stat inflation(i have an lv 20 WLK with 40 ~ +15 CHA), Disjunction could make you lose all bonus gear and it will not be that massive damage(my CHA will only be 34 without gear)

ddo stat inflation

About DDO, when i tried to play as a sorcerer, become bored pretty quickly. Mainly due cooldown and other mmo BS. When i decided to play as an warlock, liked the game, Sure, would be much better with spell slots(That vincke criticized), but due Eldritch Blast i barely need to play "same rotation spreadsheet simulator", Eldritch Blast is so amazing that is hard to ruin. But i will not be surprised if Larian decides to ruin Eldritch Blast by implementing cooldowns or something similar.