Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

I always get triggered when I see something like this. Yes, Pale Masters don't get caster levels or more spells, aka using them as casters/necromancer-stand-ins is not the way to go. You use them for melee for those juicy defenses and the summon is a bonus (also cool factor). Cleric/Pale Master/Bard is quite a sight to behold. Bard/Rogue (or Assassin)/Pale Master also seems like a cool combo I'd like to try some day.

So the class is good as longs you don't use the class for necromancy.... And use pale master to melee. Amazing implementation. Next time i wanna see Barbarian casting spells.

Yes, because you obviously can't use it for necromancy (at least the type you want), I don't see how it's the class' fault that you want it to be something else. It was an engine limitation that just changes the function of the class, it isn't bad and it isn't bad implementation (since the class is still useful).

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Depends on the ending, which is the reason she can't be in Baldur's Gate III - she has several different epilogues

meh it could still be done. BG1 gave you the ability to kill Viconia and every other character, yet there they were again in BG2 and TOB. The precedent is set.

the only exception was Yoshimo, who was destined for permadeath and couldn't be resurrected in TOB, but even that doesn't stop his ghost from appearing or whatever.

but she's a halfling, so she'd die of old age by the time of Baldur's Gate III.

could have been turned to stone (like Minsc?).

While Mazzy is less likely, I fully expect Viconia to appear regardless of the reasoning or whether it makes sense.

The problem is that you are thinking in terms of story and continuity. Something the devs clearly couldn't care less about or they would be making it a direct sequel instead of something hundreds of years later, but still with Minsc in it.

It's all about call backs and references to things in the public consciousness in order to stand out. It's all marketing. It's the whole reason they're resurrecting the franchise.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yes, because you obviously can't use it for necromancy (at least the type you want), I don't see how it's the class' fault that you want it to be something else. It was an engine limitation that just changes the function of the class, it isn't bad and it isn't bad implementation (since the class is still useful).

Engine limitations? PRC fixed it and other mods allow +CL. Same with only one summon BS.

 

[Ismaul]

If you mean that in general some pieces of gear have attribute bonuses, well that's nothing new. D&D always has had belts of giant strength, cloaks of charisma, and all that +stat shit. The PnP game has less +stat items than DOS2 sure, but remember D&D operates on a 3-18 scale for attributes, while DOS2 is on a 10-40 scale, which means a +1 in DOS2 in worth less than half a +1 in D&D.

Non stacking bonuses is far different than the mmo-like thing on D:OS2. You can replicate most gear effects with spells and on 5e, you can only attune 3 magical items for each time. On DOS2, i was unable to build my char the way that i want because i found no helm to increase my INT/STR... And i hate when RPG games become more "gear playing game"

Really, the DOS2 char you wanted to play depended on you finding a helm to increase your Int/Str by a marginal 2% of your total? That is some bullshit, or you're a fastidious cunt. Seems to me like it's you that is making it a "gear playing game".

As for non-stacking bonuses, that is just a means for D&D to manage the infinite number of items that can be added with supplements, first and third party, that would imbalance the game if all stacked because the interactions haven't been planned for. That's not the case with a tailored video game. In D&D you might have one item that gives +6 Str, in DOS2 you might have the helm, chest, weapon and amulet giving at most +2 that can stack, but that +2 is at best worth +1 in D&D scale. Having one item that gives +6 to an attribute or 6 items that give +1 is pretty much equivalent.

 

[Grauken]

I cna't remember, did Viconia died at the end of throne of Bhaal?

Depends on the ending, which is the reason she can't be in Baldur's Gate III - she has several different epilogues. The only ones who can possibly appear are those who either had no epilogue (most characters from BG 1); a fixed place in post-Spellplague Baldur's Gate (Coran and Minsc), or a single epilogue which isn't too "conclusive". For example, Cernd only has one ending, but he ends up dead and buried - literally. For another, Mazzy only had a single, non-conclusive epilogue, but she's a halfling, so she'd die of old age by the time of Baldur's Gate III.

All in all, I'd rather expect characters from Baldur's Gate I rather than the sequels to be present in any shape or form, unless Larian does something absolutely crazy, like allowing save importing/save crafting from the previous games and actually taking the epilogues into account. This is highlu, highly unlikely since:
1. It requires a LOT of work.
2. It would tether the third game very strongly to the previous ones, basically requiring it to be an actual sequel.
3. In some cases, like one of the Viconia endings, you'd have to have CHARNAME and his children wandering the land as a anti-Lloth avenger, which would introduce a shit ton of problems on its own.

Or, call me crazy, just an idea, ignore certain parts of BG2 to make every character appear they want to

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, because you obviously can't use it for necromancy (at least the type you want), I don't see how it's the class' fault that you want it to be something else. It was an engine limitation that just changes the function of the class, it isn't bad and it isn't bad implementation (since the class is still useful).

Engine limitations? PRC fixed it and other mods allow +CL. Same with only one summon BS.

I'm pretty sure the PRC doesn't give you access to spell levels beyond your natural one as the spellclasting class you used to qualify for PM. Which is what I was referring to, but it does increase your caster level, so go nuts I guess.

 

[Cryomancer]

As for non-stacking bonuses, that is just a means for D&D to manage the infinite number of items that can be added with supplements, first and third party, that would imbalance the game if all stacked because the interactions haven't been planned for. That's not the case with a tailored video game. In D&D you might have one item that gives +6 Str, in DOS2 you might have the helm, chest, weapon and amulet giving at most +2 that can stack, but that +2 is at best worth +1 in D&D scale. Having one item that gives +6 to an attribute or 6 items that give +1 is pretty much equivalent.

No, are not. Items generally replicate what spells can do and "disjunction" can make all magical gear into normal gear. But this is only one of my points. Most magical items on D&D are not important only non stacking stat bonuses, but by giving DR, giving AC, increasing DC, giving supernatural power like water breathing, etc.

I'm pretty sure the PRC doesn't give you access to spell levels beyond your natural one as the spellclasting class you used to qualify for PM. Which is what I was referring to, but it does increase your caster level, so go nuts I guess.

Still better than the default. Also PM can animate huge undead armies on PRC.

 

[fantadomat]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

 

[Grauken]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

No Vancian magic anymore

 

[Elex]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

4e have the retarded lore. 5e pretend 4e never happened.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

 

[fantadomat]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.

 

[ItsChon]

with

ItsChon said:

2nd edition AD&D is supreme, but 5E is honestly not bad once you get used to it.

 

[Ismaul]

As for non-stacking bonuses, that is just a means for D&D to manage the infinite number of items that can be added with supplements, first and third party, that would imbalance the game if all stacked because the interactions haven't been planned for. That's not the case with a tailored video game. In D&D you might have one item that gives +6 Str, in DOS2 you might have the helm, chest, weapon and amulet giving at most +2 that can stack, but that +2 is at best worth +1 in D&D scale. Having one item that gives +6 to an attribute or 6 items that give +1 is pretty much equivalent.

No, are not. Items generally replicate what spells can do and "disjunction" can make all magical gear into normal gear. But this is only one of my points. Most magical items on D&D are not important only non stacking stat bonuses, but by giving DR, giving AC, increasing DC, giving supernatural power like water breathing, etc.

So your criticism is that in DOS2 items are not really magical, just giving bonuses?

I partially agree. Magic items having unique effects / spell-like abilities is more interesting. Which is why 5E took away +1-5 weapons, because everyone wanted those rather than ones that had magical effects.

But DOS2 also has spell abilities on magical gear. Boots, gloves and helms can grant an appropriate spell, for example Haste for boots, Clear-Mind for helms and First Aid for gloves. Weapons too can grant an attack spell/skill. And some uniques from other slots can have spells too, you can get rings with Restoration in the beginning of the game for example. I'm also pretty sure everyone remembers and used the gloves of Teleportation you can get at the beginning; I still used them in the mid-game because of their unique effect. So DOS2 doesn't eliminate that magical aspect from loot, on the contrary.

 

[Cryomancer]

So your criticism is that in DOS2 items are not really magical, just giving bonuses?

Is because felt more like i was playing an mmo meets puzzle game than an actual RPG.

 

[Ismaul]

So your criticism is that in DOS2 items are not really magical, just giving bonuses?

Is because felt more like i was playing an mmo meets puzzle game than an actual RPG.

If TB combat makes you think it's a puzzle game, I don't know what to tell you man. RPGs started with TB or phase-based systems.

Also, wasn't one of the arguments in praise of BG2 that you had combat encouters were you had to figure out the right counters to some spell protections and attacks? If anything sounds like a puzzle, that would be it. And it's great.

 

[Cryomancer]

If TB combat makes you think it's a puzzle game, I don't know what to tell you man. RPGs started with TB or phase-based systems.

No, is not the turn based. Temple of Elemental Evil is turn based and i loved.

Solasta is turn based and i loved the demo too.

When i mean mmo feet puzzle, i mean that the itemization is very mmoish, that the game has a lot of awful mechanics like bows limited to 13m, only one summon BS and cooldowns, feel more like i was solving envorimental puzzles than i was actually in a battle.

 

[ArchAngel]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.

You must not be a DM. DMing 3e was always a terrible experience and every combat lasted way too long. Only way to run 3e was to throw out half the rules out the window and wing it or it was not much fun. And then if you get even one rules lawyer in the group the whole experience went 2x worse as that person would rather argue with you about rules then have a good session...
5e is exactly what D&D needed. 3e works better as a computer game than PnP.

Also Numenera is awesome system to run, also very nice for creative players that are not rules lawyers. World it is happening in might not be to everyone's liking but rules themselves are very slick and easy to run and play.

 

[Lacrymas]

Capping levels at 20 is basically the best change in the context of video game conversions, it reduces epic level bloat and narrative absurdities. The downside is that many creatures' CR has been reduced as well (like an Elder Brain being 14 instead of 25 now), so it might have the opposite effect and introduce the inelegance of epic levels earlier. Prime Junta would be happy there are no more prestige classes because you don't feel the need to "color in the lines", but I disagree with his assertion in general because you aren't forced to choose a prestige class and it's only an option if you want it, having strict prerequisites reduces the potential for overpowered builds.

5E essentially takes a lot of the math away and that's why people feel it's easier/more comfortable/faster to actually play. I haven't done it so I can't comment, but perhaps they are right.

 

[Ismaul]

the game has a lot of awful mechanics like bows limited to 13m

Not many games have engagement ranges more than 2 screens away. It usually doesn't work unless the design is made specifically for it (Fallout Tactics for example). But the 13m range is misleading: DOS2 has elevation that increases the range greatly. That's a great gameplay improvement.

only one summon BS

Rangers in D&D also only have one animal companion for many reasons: 1) one person controlling too many characters hogs the table time; 2) your character can become much more effective and powerful than others if you can make multiple attacks and can divide the enemy's attention and soak many hits. This has been an issue the designers have tackled in every edition of D&D.

The same can be said in the case of spells rather than class features. In 3E, the Summon Monster/Ally spells don't give you control over the summon, you need to be able to talk to them (talk with animals for example) to make them do anything else than attacks the adjacent opponent. And they last for a number of rounds = to your level, which is shit for low levels characters. By comparison, in DOS2 your summon is fully under your control and lasts 10 rounds regardless of level. D&D also tries to reign in summons by stating that they can't themselves summon creatures or teleport.

The other summoner archetype, the Necromancer, is similarly limited in 3E. Animate Dead allows you to summon lowly skellies and zomies, to a max of Hit Dice = 2x your caster level per cast, 4x max in total. Those guys are basically just meat shields, pretty weak. But DOS2 also allows multiple Totems in addition to your summon. Same shit. Nouw if you want more powerful guys in D&D, there's Create Undead, which creates one guy that isn't even under your control. You need Control or Command Undead to gain temporary control, and then you need to make Cha checks just to give basic orders.

In 5E, Dominating a creature requires your action to control them. So you can only control one creature at a time at the cost of your own action. And looky here, Summoning spells require maintaining Concentration, which means you can only have 1 one of them active at one time.

So there's always going to be limitations on summons for practical gameplay reasons, either by limiting the number, duration or control, or by making a whole class tailored only for that.

feel more like i was solving envorimental puzzles than i was actually in a battle

I don't see how itemization, limited range for bows, summoning limits and spell cooldowns suddenly make the game about solving environmental puzzles. What puzzles are there with the environment? You mean that surfaces and statuses interact with each other? If so you have a very low bar for what you call a "puzzle". Do you even have a point aside from "ow my brain too much elemental interactions"?

 

[Ismaul]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.

Mr. Magniloquent didn't present it in the most magniloquent way.

Attributes serving as saves means: 1) 6 saves instead of 3, more appropriate saves vs a danger. Reflexes being based on Dex and Int was retarded. Now you can use Int to save vs some mind tricks, not just Wis and Cha. And you can't use Int to physically dodge stuff. It is more intuitive. Someone wants to shove you, Str save. Easy. Opposed rolls and saving throws use the same unified mechanic. 5E gives much more importance to attributes and makes them the core of the system, which is how it should be.

Attributes being capped means: Fuck the over the top min-maxing, characters can diversify a bit. But note that you can exceed the cap in some rare ways; 30 is the hard cap. But it makes anything above 20 superhumanoid.

Feats being more substantial is good. More power to customization of characters, no useless feats, all character-defining.

Weapons not having +1-5 bonuses means you won't have to choose between accuracy and damage vs magical effects. All magic items are magical in other ways than giving numerical bonuses. It's no longer a stack-the-bonuses game only to have a chance to be effective. Magic items are great again. Also, this + the attribute cap allows for a non-level-scaled world: low level adventurers have a chance against higher level enemies if they're clever and use all advantages, since they don't need to gain mass bonus modifiers to have a chance to affect them. This is great incline.

Advantage/Disadvantage is a great mechanic at the table. Easy to adjudicate, one rule for all situations, not +2 for this, +5 for that, +3 here, those two modifiers stack but not those two; just compare positive and negative circumstances to determine if there's an advantage, a disadvantage or not. Also, you roll more dice! Way faster at the table, and statistically similar except in the extreme stacking cases which were broken anyways.

Alignments are not gone despite what Mr. Magniloquent said, just less strict. They're strong tendencies. So a lawfully aligned character/monster will have a strong tendency to go with the law, more than usual. Dwarves for examples are listed are usually lawful, while Humans have no intrinsic tendencies. Creatures acting on the basis of instinct rather than morals are now unaligned, much like retarded people. But now in addition to Alignment, you've got Personality Traits, Ideals (ex: honor), Bonds (ex: debts) and Flaws (ex: greed) to further define your character, with some small mechanical backing for them (Inspiration that you can gain). There's no Detect Evil spell in the base rules though, which is a good thing because it fucked campaigns based on subterfuge and deception.

As for prestige classes, what has been done in D&D 5E is to give much more customization options within a class. Some class features are there for all members of a class, some are dependant on an archetype path that you choose (and there are choices within each archetype). It's a much more modular design. For example, Wizard school specialization is handled with an archetype that gives appropriately themed class features for the chosen school, not just +1 spell slot of your school and two forbidden schools like in 3E. So basically classes have more variability, which reduces the need for prestige classes to further define your character and give them a twist. It's all right there in the base classes. And it also allows for supplements to add archetypes, or for you to design your own if you're into homebrewing.

Anyways, I could go on, but 5E is far from trash.

 

[Cryomancer]

Not many games have engagement ranges more than 2 screens away. It usually doesn't work unless the design is made specifically for it (Fallout Tactics for example). But the 13m range is misleading: DOS2 has elevation that increases the range greatly. That's a great gameplay improvement.

Even on NWN2 that nerfed warlocks to oblivion compared to pnp, literally ruining most invocations allowed you to snipe people at 250 feet with Eldritch Spear.

2) your character can become much more effective and powerful than others if you can make multiple attacks and can divide the enemy's attention and soak many hits. This has been an issue the designers have tackled in every edition of D&D.

Not true.
1 - In a CRPG, computers can do all math and on pnp, you can simplify the damage. Eg, instead of rolling 20 attacks, you roll two times. And generalite.
2 - You can see an problem, but raise undead armies is COOL.
3 - He don't become that effective. He can only maintain CL / rounds animated creatures.
4 - Pathfinder Kingmaker allowed multiple summons and worked well. Some times, they are very effective and some times, waste of spell slots. Depends the situation like most spells.

By comparison, in DOS2 your summon is fully under your control and lasts 10 rounds regardless of level. D&D also tries to reign in summons by stating that they can't themselves summon creatures or teleport.

That is AWFUL!!!

Literally makes the difference between an low level necromancer and an high level necromancer, just an matter o armor and attack numbers. Compare to Diablo 2 where you start with an weak skeleton and gradually learn how to raise skeleton mages, golems, and revive monsters or to M&M VIII where you at the start barely can reanimate an peasant but at end game can reanimate even dragons. This is the type of progression that i expect in a necromancer. Start the game with just one summon and end the game with the same summon is awful. Even the duration is always the same.

Animate Dead allows you to summon lowly skellies and zomies, to a max of Hit Dice = 2x your caster level per cast, 4x max in total. Those guys are basically just meat shields, pretty weak. But DOS2 also allows multiple Totems in addition to your summon.

Are you really comparing just one D&D spell with all DOS2 summons?? Please. See the complete 3.5e SRD or NWN - PRC summon monster list.

Concentration, which means you can only have 1 one of them active at one time.

Except that animate objects can animate multiple objects(10 https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Animate Objects#content ) and if you cast as an high level spell, you can animate more objects

 

[Ismaul]

Are you really comparing just one D&D spell with all DOS2 summons?? Please. See the complete 3.5e SRD or NWN - PRC summon monster list.

After I listed a bunch of different D&D spells and their effects, you go with this "defense"? Weak.

So you like summoners and especially necromancers that should have mass summons. Great. But mass summons don't work that well in turn-based cRPGs, they stall the game. In PnP usually they're abstracted in a way, or made pretty simple if it's going to work; often they're grouped and handled as a single creature. Mass summons are easier in RT. It's also much easier to design summoners with a class-based approach, like Diablo and unlike DOS2, because the summoning features they'd get would come at the cost of other abilities, which isn't the case in a classless system.

In addition, you like the progression of summoning stronger monsters. Sure. But what are they but reskinned low level summons with more armor, attack numbers and abilities? In DOS2, if you build a summoner, as you level up you learn some summoning skills to improve your Incarnate summon and give him more abilities: Infusions. There's dozens of them. It's different than summoning / animating different creatures, in that your main summon can be molded to your liking and boosted with infusions in addition to regular buffs. It is different but fulfills a similar purpose, and it has the advantage of interacting with elemental surfaces which is particular to DOS.

Also don't forget that there are alternatives to the Incarnate summon: 2 from necromancy (Bloated Corpse and Bone Widow), 1 from Geomancy (Artillery Plant), 1 from Polymorph (Oily Blob), 1 from Pyro (Fire Slug), 1 from Scoundrel (Wind-Up Toy), and a bunch tied to characters or acquirable in the campaign (Ifan's Wolf, the Cat, the Condor, the Dragonling, the Poison Slug). Plus, in addition to your main summon, you can cast multiple Totems at the same time, and Dominate the minds of multiple enemies. And all characters, even non-summoners, can have a summon since DOS2 is classless, which ends up putting a lot of bodies in the fight.

Are you that limited that you can't appreciate a different spellcasting system? DOS2 is not D&D and does not have D&D's spell list. If that's its main flaw in your view, then nothing can be done for you.

As for Animate Object animating multiple objects, it's still one spell that requires Concentration. You can't have it up and another summon. And what are 10 animated weak objects but a reskinned single strong summon that can attack multiple targets (i.e. has an AoE attack)? The spell even states that all animated objects follow the same single-word command. It's functionally equivalent.

 

[fantadomat]

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.

You must not be a DM. DMing 3e was always a terrible experience and every combat lasted way too long. Only way to run 3e was to throw out half the rules out the window and wing it or it was not much fun. And then if you get even one rules lawyer in the group the whole experience went 2x worse as that person would rather argue with you about rules then have a good session...
5e is exactly what D&D needed. 3e works better as a computer game than PnP.

Also Numenera is awesome system to run, also very nice for creative players that are not rules lawyers. World it is happening in might not be to everyone's liking but rules themselves are very slick and easy to run and play.

Ahhh no,for me the main rule is that the rules are suggestions. I am mainly the DM and do craft everything by my self for the game. I do invent the worlds,lore history,races and diplomacy, and side effects of the world. Like having strong magic and every spell gets bonus effects,also a lot more normal beasts have new abilities. I never take the rules too seriously. Also my combats are pretty fast,could take from a few minutes to half an hour if bigger. My dudes are not the kind of wasting 50 minutes arguing about how to engage a fucking lone goblin,they do have brains. Also i play with friends over a few bottles of brendy and not some random retards that whine about rules and shit. Also we have an understanding,we play for fun and i don't try to kill them for the shit of it. For example i do give them bonus points and negatives depending on the character backstory they could come up with. I do use the alignments,but don't let the players tell me what they are,but judge them on their actions. I reward good roleplaying with shots .

5E sounds like a dumbed down garbage,have no interest in games that restrict player's options for roleplay. Also no +X weapons sound retarded lol,ordinary and magical is just dumbing down.

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.

That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.

Mr. Magniloquent didn't present it in the most magniloquent way.

Attributes serving as saves means: 1) 6 saves instead of 3, more appropriate saves vs a danger. Reflexes being based on Dex and Int was retarded. Now you can use Int to save vs some mind tricks, not just Wis and Cha. And you can't use Int to physically dodge stuff. It is more intuitive. Someone wants to shove you, Str save. Easy. Opposed rolls and saving throws use the same unified mechanic. 5E gives much more importance to attributes and makes them the core of the system, which is how it should be.

Attributes being capped means: Fuck the over the top min-maxing, characters can diversify a bit. But note that you can exceed the cap in some rare ways; 30 is the hard cap. But it makes anything above 20 superhumanoid.

Feats being more substantial is good. More power to customization of characters, no useless feats, all character-defining.

Weapons not having +1-5 bonuses means you won't have to choose between accuracy and damage vs magical effects. All magic items are magical in other ways than giving numerical bonuses. It's no longer a stack-the-bonuses game only to have a chance to be effective. Magic items are great again. Also, this + the attribute cap allows for a non-level-scaled world: low level adventurers have a chance against higher level enemies if they're clever and use all advantages, since they don't need to gain mass bonus modifiers to have a chance to affect them. This is great incline.

Advantage/Disadvantage is a great mechanic at the table. Easy to adjudicate, one rule for all situations, not +2 for this, +5 for that, +3 here, those two modifiers stack but not those two; just compare positive and negative circumstances to determine if there's an advantage, a disadvantage or not. Also, you roll more dice! Way faster at the table, and statistically similar except in the extreme stacking cases which were broken anyways.

Alignments are not gone despite what Mr. Magniloquent said, just less strict. They're strong tendencies. So a lawfully aligned character/monster will have a strong tendency to go with the law, more than usual. Dwarves for examples are listed are usually lawful, while Humans have no intrinsic tendencies. Creatures acting on the basis of instinct rather than morals are now unaligned, much like retarded people. But now in addition to Alignment, you've got Personality Traits, Ideals (ex: honor), Bonds (ex: debts) and Flaws (ex: greed) to further define your character, with some small mechanical backing for them (Inspiration that you can gain). There's no Detect Evil spell in the base rules though, which is a good thing because it fucked campaigns based on subterfuge and deception.

As for prestige classes, what has been done in D&D 5E is to give much more customization options within a class. Some class features are there for all members of a class, some are dependant on an archetype path that you choose (and there are choices within each archetype). It's a much more modular design. For example, Wizard school specialization is handled with an archetype that gives appropriately themed class features for the chosen school, not just +1 spell slot of your school and two forbidden schools like in 3E. So basically classes have more variability, which reduces the need for prestige classes to further define your character and give them a twist. It's all right there in the base classes. And it also allows for supplements to add archetypes, or for you to design your own if you're into homebrewing.

Anyways, I could go on, but 5E is far from trash.

You sound butthurt,but still informative post.

Nothing more that a good DM does anyway. You give your players a fucking bonuses if they do attack from surprise position,you don't go full retard and restrict their action because muh alignments you change their alignment based on their action,also only boring DMs give you a +5 sword and call it a day. About the saves and the skill points,i do agree,they are pretty dumb when it comes to dominating stat. That is why i always ignored them and just used the one felt made sense. I do try to run a game with less checks as possible.

 

[Ismaul]

You sound butthurt

Nah. But I have no longer any desire to run 3E, it's terrible from a GM's point of view. Fun to play though.

Nothing more that a good DM does anyway. You give your players a fucking bonuses if they do attack from surprise position,you don't go full retard and restrict their action because muh alignments you change their alignment based on their action,also only boring DMs give you a +5 sword and call it a day. About the saves and the skill points,i do agree,they are pretty dumb when it comes to dominating stat. That is why i always ignored them and just used the one felt made sense. I do try to run a game with less checks as possible.

Good GMs are few. And isn't it the designers' job to make rules that help GMs make good rulings? 3E went full retard on the Rules-As-Written "official" way of playing. You'd be surprised by how many people take alignments as straightjackets. And most other things.

Me I really dislike giving out gear just so players can keep up with the continuous stat / defenses scaling because the system says that at X level they're supposed to have +X gear and it is taken into account in monsters stats and DCs. Eventually I just houseruled the +1-5 from gear into a level bonus and gave pure magical gear for their magical effects. Plus, as a GM I'd rather have a system that works with me, rather than having to balance encounters, or limit what monsters my players encounter because of the difference between attack bonuses and AC / defenses. Or having to adjust monsters' stats to fit (which I did a lot, since I run homebrewed and houseruled campaigns). I prefer to focus less on stats and more on tactics for combat encounters, and also on conflict situations, C&C and roleplay. The limited scaling in 5E allows to do that easily.