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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Hamlet

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I'm not sure why folks are stating that +x weapons are not in the game, as they most certainly are in the game. D&D 5e differs in that the highest bonus is +3, reserved for legendary items. It also differs in that, supposedly, the core game was balanced with no assumption of magical items being present. Which is quite bizarre, really, but nevertheless.
 

Ismaul

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it also differs in that, supposedly, the core game was balanced with no assumption of magical items being present. Which is quite bizarre, really, but nevertheless.
In 3E and 4E, you were expected to have the level-appropriate +X weapon to hit enemies. Monsters' defenses were designed with the assumption that you had those bonuses. Now they're not. If you have a weapon that grants more accuracy, it's actually a bonus, not par for the course. If you don't have any you're fine. Effectiveness doesn't depend on the GM giving you such weapons. You can focus on tactics instead to gain an advantage.

Imagine in 3E/4E, if you don't have your +5 weapon at high level, that's 1/4 of the d20 range. Since with the weapon and all other bonuses you're expected to have 55% chances to hit a level-appropriate enemy by design (hit on 10+), losing the +5 means you go down to 30% (hit on 15+), losing close to half your accuracy. And that's before debuffs, stronger enemies for your level, etc. +X magic items were way too important. Now they're optional. And a +1 weapon is always as good no matter your level.
 
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Efe

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is tales from candlekeep: tomb of annihilation a mechanically accurate gameplay of 5e?
if so its horribly lacking.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
Am I the only one that really despises the advantage/disadvantage system?

It is far too binary and makes handing out bonuses to players way to impactful. It might speed things up but it so significantly limits the ability to dynamically give feedback to players for more minor actions in a balanced way.
 

ArchAngel

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Am I the only one that really despises the advantage/disadvantage system?

It is far too binary and makes handing out bonuses to players way to impactful. It might speed things up but it so significantly limits the ability to dynamically give feedback to players for more minor actions in a balanced way.
There are still +1 and +2 bonuses that you can give in addition to advantage. There is just no more 10 different +1 to +4 bonuses and penalties that you needed to think about and do the math before every fucking attack roll.
 

Elex

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Capping levels at 20 is basically the best change in the context of video game conversions, it reduces epic level bloat and narrative absurdities. The downside is that many creatures' CR has been reduced as well (like an Elder Brain being 14 instead of 25 now), so it might have the opposite effect and introduce the inelegance of epic levels earlier. Prime Junta would be happy there are no more prestige classes because you don't feel the need to "color in the lines", but I disagree with his assertion in general because you aren't forced to choose a prestige class and it's only an option if you want it, having strict prerequisites reduces the potential for overpowered builds.

5E essentially takes a lot of the math away and that's why people feel it's easier/more comfortable/faster to actually play. I haven't done it so I can't comment, but perhaps they are right.
5e is more roleplay, less dice and math, combat is still the most important thing in the books but faster and less convulted so there is more time for other parts of the game.
 

Elex

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Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.
That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.
You must not be a DM. DMing 3e was always a terrible experience and every combat lasted way too long. Only way to run 3e was to throw out half the rules out the window and wing it or it was not much fun. And then if you get even one rules lawyer in the group the whole experience went 2x worse as that person would rather argue with you about rules then have a good session...
5e is exactly what D&D needed. 3e works better as a computer game than PnP.

Also Numenera is awesome system to run, also very nice for creative players that are not rules lawyers. World it is happening in might not be to everyone's liking but rules themselves are very slick and easy to run and play.
Ahhh no,for me the main rule is that the rules are suggestions. I am mainly the DM and do craft everything by my self for the game. I do invent the worlds,lore history,races and diplomacy, and side effects of the world. Like having strong magic and every spell gets bonus effects,also a lot more normal beasts have new abilities. I never take the rules too seriously. Also my combats are pretty fast,could take from a few minutes to half an hour if bigger. My dudes are not the kind of wasting 50 minutes arguing about how to engage a fucking lone goblin,they do have brains. Also i play with friends over a few bottles of brendy and not some random retards that whine about rules and shit. Also we have an understanding,we play for fun and i don't try to kill them for the shit of it. For example i do give them bonus points and negatives depending on the character backstory they could come up with. I do use the alignments,but don't let the players tell me what they are,but judge them on their actions. I reward good roleplaying with shots :).

5E sounds like a dumbed down garbage,have no interest in games that restrict player's options for roleplay. Also no +X weapons sound retarded lol,ordinary and magical is just dumbing down.

Soo what is different in 5e outside of the retarded lore? I never really played it or cared to read it.

All of 4E Faerun spell-plague bullshit has been rolled up like it never happened for the most part. Mechanically, crunch and bloat thrown out. Attributes serve as your saves. Attributes are capped. Feats are more substantial. Many things like resistances have been simplified. Weapons are now basically ordinary or magical, no more +1/2/3/4/5. Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic replaces many modifiers. Alignments more or less discarded. Prestige classes are out, but were essentially baked into archetype paths branched from the base classes. Archetypes are mandatory after a certain level, depending on class. Monks are better, imo. Bards are finally good and are full spellcasters. Spellcasting has changed quite a bit, for the better, I think. More changes than I care to comment on. Overall though, 5E is great. Kind of a "great hits of D&D" ruleset, which also borrows from non-D&D sources as well.
That sounds like total trash lol. Sticking with the 3editon.
Mr. Magniloquent didn't present it in the most magniloquent way.

Attributes serving as saves means: 1) 6 saves instead of 3, more appropriate saves vs a danger. Reflexes being based on Dex and Int was retarded. Now you can use Int to save vs some mind tricks, not just Wis and Cha. And you can't use Int to physically dodge stuff. It is more intuitive. Someone wants to shove you, Str save. Easy. Opposed rolls and saving throws use the same unified mechanic. 5E gives much more importance to attributes and makes them the core of the system, which is how it should be.

Attributes being capped means: Fuck the over the top min-maxing, characters can diversify a bit. But note that you can exceed the cap in some rare ways; 30 is the hard cap. But it makes anything above 20 superhumanoid.

Feats being more substantial is good. More power to customization of characters, no useless feats, all character-defining.

Weapons not having +1-5 bonuses means you won't have to choose between accuracy and damage vs magical effects. All magic items are magical in other ways than giving numerical bonuses. It's no longer a stack-the-bonuses game only to have a chance to be effective. Magic items are great again. Also, this + the attribute cap allows for a non-level-scaled world: low level adventurers have a chance against higher level enemies if they're clever and use all advantages, since they don't need to gain mass bonus modifiers to have a chance to affect them. This is great incline.

Advantage/Disadvantage is a great mechanic at the table. Easy to adjudicate, one rule for all situations, not +2 for this, +5 for that, +3 here, those two modifiers stack but not those two; just compare positive and negative circumstances to determine if there's an advantage, a disadvantage or not. Also, you roll more dice! Way faster at the table, and statistically similar except in the extreme stacking cases which were broken anyways.

Alignments are not gone despite what Mr. Magniloquent said, just less strict. They're strong tendencies. So a lawfully aligned character/monster will have a strong tendency to go with the law, more than usual. Dwarves for examples are listed are usually lawful, while Humans have no intrinsic tendencies. Creatures acting on the basis of instinct rather than morals are now unaligned, much like retarded people. But now in addition to Alignment, you've got Personality Traits, Ideals (ex: honor), Bonds (ex: debts) and Flaws (ex: greed) to further define your character, with some small mechanical backing for them (Inspiration that you can gain). There's no Detect Evil spell in the base rules though, which is a good thing because it fucked campaigns based on subterfuge and deception.

As for prestige classes, what has been done in D&D 5E is to give much more customization options within a class. Some class features are there for all members of a class, some are dependant on an archetype path that you choose (and there are choices within each archetype). It's a much more modular design. For example, Wizard school specialization is handled with an archetype that gives appropriately themed class features for the chosen school, not just +1 spell slot of your school and two forbidden schools like in 3E. So basically classes have more variability, which reduces the need for prestige classes to further define your character and give them a twist. It's all right there in the base classes. And it also allows for supplements to add archetypes, or for you to design your own if you're into homebrewing.

Anyways, I could go on, but 5E is far from trash.
You sound butthurt,but still informative post.

Nothing more that a good DM does anyway. You give your players a fucking bonuses if they do attack from surprise position,you don't go full retard and restrict their action because muh alignments you change their alignment based on their action,also only boring DMs give you a +5 sword and call it a day. About the saves and the skill points,i do agree,they are pretty dumb when it comes to dominating stat. That is why i always ignored them and just used the one felt made sense. I do try to run a game with less checks as possible.
well they have made 5e for DM/groups that play like you, so what you are telling is a no sense.
 

Hamlet

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The problem with advantage/disadvantage system is it leads to situations which make little sense. Say, I'm restrained by a web spell, so I have disadvantage to my attacks and assailants have advantage on attacks against me. So, I'm restrained and I fail a save against a Blindness spell, now I'm blind and restrained. Guess what? I have disadvantage on attacks and assailants have advantage to hit me. I fight just as well restrained or blinded as I do either blinded or restrained. What if I'm blinded and restrained and my assailant is also invisible? It doesn't matter that they're invisible, or that I'm blinded and well as restrained, I still only have disadvantage to my attacks and they still have only advantage to hit me.
 
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Ismaul

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Am I the only one that really despises the advantage/disadvantage system?

It is far too binary and makes handing out bonuses to players way to impactful. It might speed things up but it so significantly limits the ability to dynamically give feedback to players for more minor actions in a balanced way.
It is meant to be impactful, and it greatly rewards tactics and how things are going in the encounter rather than mainly on the character sheet. Using tactics and maneuvers to gain advantage is really worthwhile. And that's good. If you think the circumstance might slightly favor the player but giving advantage would be too much, well maybe it's not really a significant advantage after all. Let go of the small stuff.

Also, advantage/disadvantage don't allow you to go higher or lower than the results you could get without them, while modifiers allow you to go above or below your normal max and min possible rolls. So that keeps things within a reasonable range, and works with the goal of less scaling of numbers overall. From a narrative point of view, it means you can't do superhuman stuff with advantage, unlike by stacking mods. Your maximum potential is not increased, you're just more likely to achieve it. Keeps things grounded. It also prevents people from hunting all the modifiers to stack them at every turn.

But you could have things that add modifiers, if they're the kind of thing that would reasonably increase or reduce what is possible to do, in other words the max possible roll. Like the Citizen above me said, there might be things that give +/-1 or 2. Stuff that would be equivalent to an ability score increase or reduction. It's up to the GM, but I wouldn't do it often. Note that cover and concealment grant granular AC modifiers in 5E (+2/+5), but circumstantial mods in general are very rarely present in the system.

In addition, there's also the proficiency bonus to play with. Maybe some action or contact the character has makes him act as if he had proficiency despite not having it, or expertise (2x proficiency). Maybe some circumstance negates his proficiency, or halves it. You can do that shit. But it keeps things within limits.
 

Cryomancer

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So you like summoners and especially necromancers that should have mass summons. Great. But mass summons don't work that well in turn-based cRPGs, they stall the game. In PnP usually they're abstracted in a way, or made pretty simple if it's going to work; often they're grouped and handled as a single creature. Mass summons are easier in RT. It's also much easier to design summoners with a class-based approach, like Diablo and unlike DOS2, because the summoning features they'd get would come at the cost of other abilities, which isn't the case in a classless system.

In addition, you like the progression of summoning stronger monsters. Sure. But what are they but reskinned low level summons with more armor, attack numbers and abilities? In DOS2, if you build a summoner, as you level up you learn some summoning skills to improve your Incarnate summon and give him more abilities: Infusions. There's dozens of them. It's different than summoning / animating different creatures, in that your main summon can be molded to your liking and boosted with infusions in addition to regular buffs. It is different but fulfills a similar purpose, and it has the advantage of interacting with elemental surfaces which is particular to DOS.

About mass of summons on pnp, even if to simplify the "calculations" and not slow down the game, they mechanically works similarly to only one creature, thematically, they are an army and it is soo cool. As for then being reskins, they are not. Skeleton mages are not just reskin of skeletonso n D2, they are completely different mobs.

On Diablo 2, i have more customization just with Iron Golem(absorbs the proprieties of an item) than with all DOS2 mobs. Ad on M&M VIII, only with reanimate that can reanimate every creature that my dark magic skill allow. And that is what i like in this games. On my solo sorcerer run on IWD, i started as an fragile guy who runs from weaklings that succeed on my charm spell to an guy stopping the time, shaping the reality with wish and controlling an Efreet army. On M&M VIII, i started as an weakling that barely can launch two toxic clouds in a row to an might lich capable of reanimating even dragons and nuking towns out of existence, fly, teleport, permanently enchant items, etc. On dos2 i felt more like in a mmo where only the numbers are getting bigger.

This not mentioning cooldowns, something that IMO makes games into an "same rotation spreedsheet non immersive boring job", instead of immersive worlds...


you can cast multiple Totems at the same time, and Dominate the minds of multiple enemies.

Not due the armor and magic armor mechanic of DOS 2. I need to DPS before i can use cool stuff by this mechanic.

Nah. But I have no longer any desire to run 3E, it's terrible from a GM's point of view. Fun to play though.

In my old 3.5e group, nobody wanted to DM, so we had an dm "rotation" and when was my time to DM, i was literally using my notebook and spreedsheets to do all math for me. Was tolerable, but DMing on 3.5e felt more like an job than an hobby. Play 3.5e in other hands, was so amazing.. I know an guy who was an "professional 3.5e dm"
 

Sergiu64

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One of my pet theories that "Descent into Avernus" seems to confirm is that Mind Flayers will either be an Act I villain or a red herring. The module is supposed to serve as a semi-prequel to Baldur's Gate III, and it has nothing to do with Illithids and everything to do with the Abyss, along with suspiciously large amounts of information on the Dead Three. Add to that the fact that, in one of the earliest interviews, the PR Manager of Larian Studios refused to answer whether or not we'll be playing as a Bhaalspawn… strap yourselves in, boys and girls, Bhaal is coming back in style. We're getting a straight-up sequel to CHARNAME's (mis)adventures.

That would be one hell of an Act I villain. Seemed like they were taking over the entire city with a Fleet.
 
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There's no Detect Evil spell in the base rules though, which is a good thing because it fucked campaigns based on subterfuge and deception
What about having spell Protection against Alignment Detection? And counter spells against that? Imagine the battles inside mages head!
 

Storyfag

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Mr. Magniloquent didn't present it in the most magniloquent way.

Attributes serving as saves means: 1) 6 saves instead of 3, more appropriate saves vs a danger. Reflexes being based on Dex and Int was retarded. Now you can use Int to save vs some mind tricks, not just Wis and Cha. And you can't use Int to physically dodge stuff. It is more intuitive. Someone wants to shove you, Str save. Easy. Opposed rolls and saving throws use the same unified mechanic. 5E gives much more importance to attributes and makes them the core of the system, which is how it should be.

Attributes being capped means: Fuck the over the top min-maxing, characters can diversify a bit. But note that you can exceed the cap in some rare ways; 30 is the hard cap. But it makes anything above 20 superhumanoid.

Feats being more substantial is good. More power to customization of characters, no useless feats, all character-defining.

Weapons not having +1-5 bonuses means you won't have to choose between accuracy and damage vs magical effects. All magic items are magical in other ways than giving numerical bonuses. It's no longer a stack-the-bonuses game only to have a chance to be effective. Magic items are great again. Also, this + the attribute cap allows for a non-level-scaled world: low level adventurers have a chance against higher level enemies if they're clever and use all advantages, since they don't need to gain mass bonus modifiers to have a chance to affect them. This is great incline.

Advantage/Disadvantage is a great mechanic at the table. Easy to adjudicate, one rule for all situations, not +2 for this, +5 for that, +3 here, those two modifiers stack but not those two; just compare positive and negative circumstances to determine if there's an advantage, a disadvantage or not. Also, you roll more dice! Way faster at the table, and statistically similar except in the extreme stacking cases which were broken anyways.

Alignments are not gone despite what Mr. Magniloquent said, just less strict. They're strong tendencies. So a lawfully aligned character/monster will have a strong tendency to go with the law, more than usual. Dwarves for examples are listed are usually lawful, while Humans have no intrinsic tendencies. Creatures acting on the basis of instinct rather than morals are now unaligned, much like retarded people. But now in addition to Alignment, you've got Personality Traits, Ideals (ex: honor), Bonds (ex: debts) and Flaws (ex: greed) to further define your character, with some small mechanical backing for them (Inspiration that you can gain). There's no Detect Evil spell in the base rules though, which is a good thing because it fucked campaigns based on subterfuge and deception.

As for prestige classes, what has been done in D&D 5E is to give much more customization options within a class. Some class features are there for all members of a class, some are dependant on an archetype path that you choose (and there are choices within each archetype). It's a much more modular design. For example, Wizard school specialization is handled with an archetype that gives appropriately themed class features for the chosen school, not just +1 spell slot of your school and two forbidden schools like in 3E. So basically classes have more variability, which reduces the need for prestige classes to further define your character and give them a twist. It's all right there in the base classes. And it also allows for supplements to add archetypes, or for you to design your own if you're into homebrewing.

Anyways, I could go on, but 5E is far from trash.

This all is fine and dandy, but the true question is... how long and complicated are the dreaded GRAPPLING RULES?
 

Turuko

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You're all talking about BG3 that is at best a year and a half away and this motherfuckers don't even a steam page for Fallen Heroes
 

Ismaul

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This all is fine and dandy, but the true question is... how long and complicated are the dreaded GRAPPLING RULES?
No real special rules. It's an attack with an opposed check serving as DC. Strength (Athletics) vs the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics). That's it.
 

Dodo1610

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The mind flayers are not the main villains Swen has already confirmed that
https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/bald...create-the-state-of-the-art-in-rpgs-10094263/
SV: They’re not the main bad guys, they’re… part of the overall plot. But they’re not the main plot. We showed the trailer to show the tonality of the game, to show the production values, and also for showing that we were going to go further than what you would expect. Because we did put the Nautolids in on purpose because that’s actually a component from a campaign called Spelljammer, which hasn’t got an equivalent in fifth edition
 

fantadomat

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The mind flayers are not the main villains Swen has already confirmed that
https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/bald...create-the-state-of-the-art-in-rpgs-10094263/
SV: They’re not the main bad guys, they’re… part of the overall plot. But they’re not the main plot. We showed the trailer to show the tonality of the game, to show the production values, and also for showing that we were going to go further than what you would expect. Because we did put the Nautolids in on purpose because that’s actually a component from a campaign called Spelljammer, which hasn’t got an equivalent in fifth edition
Sooo we are getting another cthulhu game then.
 

Dodo1610

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I don't think we will fight them that early. In the best case, they will serve as the boogeyman throughout the story. Just imagine a story where you random adventurer somehow ends up at the wrong time at the wrong place and finds out that one of the lords of Baldurs Gate is under control of them and you try to warn them but of course no one believes you. But since you know too much you will be hunted by the Illithids and their agents because you know too much.
 

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