Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

Tony DiTerlizzi should be a concept artist for this game...

I mean do you remember how awesome TD art for Planescape was?

Trying to harvest Fairfax-brofists, eh?

You brutally murder a lot more things before you encounter her, so stones in glass houses etc.

I only ever killed people who were in the process of attacking me in self-defense, legally not murder.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

RPG (DE)volution.

In 1990s, Armor was used to deflect blows. Then devolved into absorving an % of damage, doesn't matter if is against a knife or an warhammer. Then devolved agains to determine your charname's IQ/muscle mass(WoW), Larian managed to devolve it further by making armor an secondary health bar...

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Sigh.... Armor Class represents dodging, deflecting and blocking. It represents any action you can take to avoid damage. It's an abstraction.

 

[hell bovine]

RPG (DE)volution.

In 1990s, Armor was used to deflect blows. Then devolved into absorving an % of damage, doesn't matter if is against a knife or an warhammer. Then devolved agains to determine your charname's IQ/muscle mass(WoW), Larian managed to devolve it further by making armor an secondary health bar...

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Sigh.... Armor Class represents dodging, deflecting and blocking. It represents any action you can take to avoid damage. It's an abstraction.

It's an oversimplification. Deflecting a blow with a shield isn't an action equivalent to dodging the blow completely. In the first instance the hit might not damage you, but you'll still get the impact.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It's an abstraction..... In pnp setting you need a simpler system which will quickly produce results of an action.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's an abstraction..... In pnp setting you need a simpler system which will quickly produce results of an action.

Which is why direct pnp adaptations to digital medium are dumb

 

[Fairfax]

Tony DiTerlizzi should be a concept artist for this game...

It's unlikely that Larian could/would hire him as a significant contributor. He's been a bestselling children's author/illustrator since co-creating The Spiderwick Chronicles, so he'd be quite expensive.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Checked for those illustrations and found those:

Spoiler

Pretty cool!

 

[Cryomancer]

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Not true. Armor is dodge + block + deflect and on BG1/2, plate armor is more effective vs slashing than bs blunt weapons. Only evade is "ranged touch attack" rule on other editions.

As for armor, if you have an kevlar armor IRL, it can negate 100% of a 9mm damage and be useless against a panzerbusche 39 or other anti materiel rifle. In a medieval game, IMO certain medieval weapons like a ballista should use tough attack since no armor can stop then. If someone hit you in your unprotected head, even a .22 LR will deal full damage(and crit)

Note that even Diablo 1 had armor class and it was used to avoid being hit, M&M games, ultima games, etc too. Armor Class is a abstraction that makes perfectly sense.

 

[Ismaul]

RPG (DE)volution.

In 1990s, Armor was used to deflect blows. Then devolved into absorving an % of damage, doesn't matter if is against a knife or an warhammer. Then devolved agains to determine your charname's IQ/muscle mass(WoW), Larian managed to devolve it further by making armor an secondary health bar...

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Sigh.... Armor Class represents dodging, deflecting and blocking. It represents any action you can take to avoid damage. It's an abstraction.

Much like Armor in DOS2 is an abstraction. A different one, but that tries to simulate breaking defenses / making an opening in armor before being able to strike true.

Remember the whole discussion started with S0rcererV1ct0r arguing that DOS2's armor system is shit because it doesn't simulate deflection of blows. But that's not the right argument to defend his point, because both are abstractions modeling one aspect of armor.

In addition, the criticism was that DOS2's armor has been devolved into another HP bar. But what is HP abstracting in the first place? Fatigue, dodging capability, deflection, skill, luck, magical factors... And that's right there in the PHBs. So maybe Armor as HP isn't so bad now is it?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

RPG (DE)volution.

In 1990s, Armor was used to deflect blows. Then devolved into absorving an % of damage, doesn't matter if is against a knife or an warhammer. Then devolved agains to determine your charname's IQ/muscle mass(WoW), Larian managed to devolve it further by making armor an secondary health bar...

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Sigh.... Armor Class represents dodging, deflecting and blocking. It represents any action you can take to avoid damage. It's an abstraction.

Much like Armor in DOS2 is an abstraction. A different one, but that tries to simulate breaking defenses / making an opening in armor before being able to strike true.

Remember the whole discussion started with S0rcererV1ct0r arguing that DOS2's armor system is shit because it doesn't simulate deflection of blows. But that's not the right argument to defend his point, because both are abstractions modeling one aspect of armor.

Some abstractions are better than others.
Representing armor as a numeric value before it breaks/deteriorates to worthlessness is better than representing dodging/blocking/deflecting/absorbing/etc a blow all with the same mechanic.

 

[mibbles]

So how about them gameplay details?

 

[Cryomancer]

Much like Armor in DOS2 is an abstraction. A different one, but that tries to simulate breaking defenses / making an opening in armor before being able to strike true.

Some abstractions are superior in immersion in consistency, in gameplay and etc than others. DOS2 armor system was criticized even by DOS1 fans. That said, armor mechanics on Diablo 1 are far superior than on D3. On DOS 1 is far superior than on DOS 2.

I honestly don't care much about BG3. If Vincke change his mind about "hur dur, this mechanic that exists since pool of radiance(1988) obvious doesn't work", BG3 can be good. Otherwise, will be the AAA Sword Coast Legends. We already got an modern BG - PF:KM(RtWP, huge story game) and will got an modern ToEE - Solasta(TB + low level focus), if Larian receive the same fate of SCL devs, will be well deserved.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

DOS2 armor system was criticized even by DOS1 fans.

And they're wrong.

 

[McPlusle]

It's an abstraction..... In pnp setting you need a simpler system which will quickly produce results of an action.

Which is why direct pnp adaptations to digital medium are dumb

Excuse me?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's an abstraction..... In pnp setting you need a simpler system which will quickly produce results of an action.

Which is why direct pnp adaptations to digital medium are dumb

Excuse me?

you heard me

 

[hell bovine]

If you're talking about the IE games, then that system didn't make sense to begin with. Armor wasn't used to deflect hits, it was used to avoid hits. It's the equivalent of implementing a kevlar vest that makes you dodge bullets, instead of absorbing the impact.

Not true. Armor is dodge + block + deflect and on BG1/2, plate armor is more effective vs slashing than bs blunt weapons. Only evade is "ranged touch attack" rule on other editions.

There is no blocking with shields or breastplates deflecting a hit in BG 1/2. That's why a whimpy mage with the lowest possible strenght is tougher to kill than a heavy plate wearing fighter with a giant's girdle. The spell absorbs all the damage, but there is no risk in getting staggered or knocked down by the blow. Alternatively, you can go with damage resistance stacking on barbarians and clerics. Armor ends up being the least useful defense line because "dodge + block + deflect" doesn't mean much when you don't even have mechanics that would represent blocking.

 

[Maggot]

Fallout had AC, DT, and DR which is better than just AC.

 

[Nines_Anarch]

Gameplay when?

 

[DraQ]

It's an oversimplification. Deflecting a blow with a shield isn't an action equivalent to dodging the blow completely. In the first instance the hit might not damage you, but you'll still get the impact.

It might be an ok abstraction for (medium sized) human(oid) on (medium sized) human(oid) combat, but it falls apart in universe where a giant (or even bear) may take a swing at you.

Much like Armor in DOS2 is an abstraction. A different one, but that tries to simulate breaking defenses / making an opening in armor before being able to strike true.

We've been over that:
Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition
Simple Guide To Fixing Armour - Larian, take notes

There is no blocking with shields or breastplates deflecting a hit in BG 1/2. That's why a whimpy mage with the lowest possible strenght is tougher to kill than a heavy plate wearing fighter with a giant's girdle. The spell absorbs all the damage, but there is no risk in getting staggered or knocked down by the blow.

One of the reasons I really fucking like Requiem for Skyrim - enemy mage put up stoneskin-like spell making him nigh invulnerable to damage? Bullrush the fucker with your heavily armoured warrior then smash him up pulpy while not letting him get up.

That is why people are sympathetic towards Viconia. She isn't Evil by any objective measure.

Character sheet says otherwise.

...And that's one of the reasons why alignment system is shit and followers sharing their full character sheets with you fucking derpy.

 

[Elex]

So how about them gameplay details?

it’s an abstraction.

 

[DalekFlay]

Gameplay when?

When the marketing department says they have something good to show and it's a good time to show it.

 

[conan_edw]

Maybe we will get some news next month

 

[toroks]

The "awesome" Baldur's Gate 3 cover pops up 1:51 into the Google Stadia announcement video This will soon be a game every kid and their grandmother knows about!

 

[Molina]

With less than a year to go before its release, we still don't know anything about this game?

 

[Sentinel]

You know it'll be delayed to 2021.