Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[The_Mask]

All of your analogies are failures. The arguments are already known.

TB Fags

1. CRPGs must be turned based, as they are derived from the design of RPGs.
2. Real-time is incomprehensible to follow.
3. Real-time is incomprehensible to play, due to ability bloat of modern design.
4. Prefer all actions to be drip fed in a linear manner.
5. RTwP offers the worst of both.

RTwP Fags

1. Turned based rule sets can and have been successfully adapted.
   1. Very few developers have attempted to create an RPG with true real time mechanics, so it remains theoretical.
2. RTwP is more visceral and engaging due to increased complexity. Multi-variable calculus vs linear algebra.
3. TB is tedious with slow resolution.
4. RTwP offers the best of both.

I generally stay out of this argument, because 1. it's been debated to death, and 2. I can play either of them equally well, so I don't give a shit, but this post was sort-of interesting, so I will chime in with:

There is a post on the "Trigger the Codex with a Statement" thread which, so far, has garnered the most ratings, which is felipepepepepepepe's post that states:

"Games were turn-based only due to technological limitations".

I believe that RTwP is to RPGs the equivalent of it's teenage years, where it went experimental. Beautiful, breath taking and fast, branching out to new possibilities - was it the best idea? Who's to tell? It differs from person to person.

But what I do know is that it is now part of RPG history with its place and meaning.

 

[DraQ]

But rtwp is not meat. It's cheap and lazy substitute for both tb and pure rt. Basically - vegan meat.

So basically:
RT and TB are meat and veggies (order irrelevant).
RTWP is vegan meat substitute.

Sounds about right.

 

[Desiderius]

If PF:KM was turn based, would it be better than D:OS/2?

Yes. ?SYNTAX ERROR

Allowances must be made for EFL.

 

[Desiderius]

There is a post on the "Trigger the Codex with a Statement" thread which, so far, has garnered the most ratings, which is felipepepepepepepe's post that states:

"Games were turn-based only due to technological limitations".

Heh. Truth hurts.

Ok, not only just primarily. Doesn't mean it can't be a good game. A lot of people enjoy playing Go and Bridge online too.

Main thing about this debate is how fun it is to trigger the mono-condescending TBtards with a taste of their own ridiculous medicine.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

it seems to be more an issue that Turn-based zealots can't endure more thrill than a single dice roll at any given moment, and an inability to process more than one action at any given time.

Except if I want thrilling gameplay that demands me to make good decisions under duress I'll play a real time game.
Being able to pause the game to take as much time as I want to "order" that action (so also unlike real time games it's not really you that's performing the action) kinda defeats the whole fucking point of Real Time now doesn't it dumbass.

 

[DraQ]

RTWP makes for absolutely lousiest mechanics possible for controlling small handful of units, each demanding ultra fine precision AND featuring huge number of options (inventory, spellcasting, etc.). Like you do in an RPG.
Then, layering RTWP on top of TB PnP mechanics is just a bad joke.

But that's simply not true in a low-lvl DnD context for which it was created. Subj will be no different, basically.

If you play party of fighters, perhaps.

For single character RPGs best make them RT, preferably FPP or TPP with actiony controls, for best timing, movement and targetting precision.
For party based, just make them TB or Phase-Based for unintrusively multiplexing the control flow between different characters.

You must have some specific examples in mind to say that because I'm thinking exactly the opposite while keeping in mind AoD/Fallout for best single TB experience and any party-based with lots of possible summons for RTwP, let's say Pf:K again.

Any aRPG, FPS/RPG hybrid, TES (despite Bethesda generally sucking at mechanics and coding). Most of the time TB is just wasted when you are controlling one character and you still pay the penalty of not being able to react instantaneously. And yeah, Fallout's combat mechanics was lousy. Pretty much the only good thing about it was DR/DT system. Most people only liked it because of gory crits.

For TB: Wizardry (esp 8), Larian's new stuff (despite Larian having some bizarre misconceptions about what makes for good mechanics).

TB has always been because of technical limitations, except the most fundamental of those were never machine ones, but human limitations, namely having mostly single-threaded consciousness, and mind used to driving only single body, which in conjunction with the one hardware limitation that never budged - having input channel limited to small set of controls operated with hands - makes RTWP absolute chore unless you can just batch select and popcorn.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

it seems to be more an issue that Turn-based zealots can't endure more thrill than a single dice roll at any given moment, and an inability to process more than one action at any given time.

Except if I want thrilling gameplay that demands me to make good decisions under duress I'll play a real time game.
Being able to pause the game to take as much time as I want to "order" that action (so also unlike real time games it's not really you that's performing the action) kinda defeats the whole fucking point of Real Time now doesn't it dumbass.

It doesn't defeat the point. That statement is false. I do have good news though. Pausing in RTwP is optional. You're saved! Furthermore, any I've played have so many auto-pause conditions, that it is vertiably like playing TB.

 

[Harthwain]

I generally stay out of this argument, because 1. it's been debated to death, and 2. I can play either of them equally well, so I don't give a shit, but this post was sort-of interesting, so I will chime in with:

There is a post on the "Trigger the Codex with a Statement" thread which, so far, has garnered the most ratings, which is felipepepepepepepe's post that states:

"Games were turn-based only due to technological limitations".

I would agree with that, if you change "Games" for "RPGs" (or "PnP RPGs").

 

[Goldschmidt]

Yikes what happened to the BG saga. This travesty being developed by my own country men.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

BG saga

Belgium Game bro.

 

[Goldschmidt]

BG saga

Belgium Game bro.

If I wasn't emprisoned atm, I should go to Ghent and talk some sense into Sven Vincke.

 

[Thonius]

I’m really surprised all this food fuss kept cereals aside though it’s the only thing that has let our civilization exist and thrive for millenias. Without it you would’ve still been painting a cave ceiling with your own shit, living in constant cold, filth and misery.

I doubt that US invented highly sugarated corn flower eh... circles are the pillars of civilization. You probably meant grains.

 

[Reinhardt]

Yikes what happened to the BG saga.

Someone missed Siege of Dragonspear.

 

[jackofshadows]

If you play party of fighters, perhaps.

Options for other classes are still scarce and it's not hard to actually choose'em at least against familiar opponents. It's all about fine precision, like you've described but why RTwP precludes that?

Any aRPG, FPS/RPG hybrid, TES (despite Bethesda generally sucking at mechanics and coding). Most of the time TB is just wasted when you are controlling one character and you still pay the penalty of not being able to react instantaneously. And yeah, Fallout's combat mechanics was lousy. Pretty much the only good thing about it was DR/DT system. Most people only liked it because of gory crits.

For TB: Wizardry (esp 8), Larian's new stuff (despite Larian having some bizarre misconceptions about what makes for good mechanics).

TB has always been because of technical limitations, except the most fundamental of those were never machine ones, but human limitations, namely having mostly single-threaded consciousness, and mind used to driving only single body, which in conjunction with the one hardware limitation that never budged - having input channel limited to small set of controls operated with hands - makes RTWP absolute chore unless you can just batch select and popcorn.

Now you're talking about Action/RPGs? It's ridiculous, then let's take it further and argue about TB mode for the nuDOOM.

I agree that Fallout's system is not the pinacle of TB experience, but it still has provided some tactical perspective. Just look at their attempt in Arcanum and compare modes there.

 

[vortex]

If I wasn't emprisoned atm, I should go to Ghent and talk some sense into Sven Vincke.

After imprisonment, go to Ghent and tell Swen to stop this madness and bring RTWP for BG3. Do this noble cause.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Yikes what happened to the BG saga.

Someone missed Siege of Dragonspear.

Yeah but do we need ANOTHER shit stain on BG legacy?

 

[Reinhardt]

Yikes what happened to the BG saga.

Someone missed Siege of Dragonspear.

Yeah but do we need ANOTHER shit stain on BG legacy?

Sorry, but after all kickstarters IE games legacy is not shiny white.

 

[underground nymph]

I’m really surprised all this food fuss kept cereals aside though it’s the only thing that has let our civilization exist and thrive for millenias. Without it you would’ve still been painting a cave ceiling with your own shit, living in constant cold, filth and misery.

I doubt that US invented highly sugarated corn flower eh... circles are the pillars of civilization. You probably meant grains.

Nah, just google “Cereals and civilization”.

 

[fantadomat]

Yikes what happened to the BG saga.

Someone missed Siege of Dragonspear.

It is progress...

 

[Lacrymas]

SoD wasn't that bad.

 

[Reinhardt]

SoD wasn't that bad.

DOS too.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

it seems to be more an issue that Turn-based zealots can't endure more thrill than a single dice roll at any given moment, and an inability to process more than one action at any given time.

Except if I want thrilling gameplay that demands me to make good decisions under duress I'll play a real time game.
Being able to pause the game to take as much time as I want to "order" that action (so also unlike real time games it's not really you that's performing the action) kinda defeats the whole fucking point of Real Time now doesn't it dumbass.

It doesn't defeat the point. That statement is false. I do have good news though. Pausing in RTwP is optional. You're saved! Furthermore, any I've played have so many auto-pause conditions, that it is vertiably like playing TB.

This is the equivalent of saying Skyrim's quest markers don't hurt the game because you can disable them.
The whole system and how you interact with it is built on pausing. So yeah it does defeat the point.
Also it isn't like playing TB because the system (the AI, the encounters, the actions, the stats, etc...) is simultaneasly built to run on real time.
It's a fucking mutt with neither the strengths of one nor the other.

 

[Elex]

So basically:
RT and TB are meat and veggies (order irrelevant).
RTWP is vegan meat substitute.

Sounds about right.

yes, what rtwp argoument forgot is that real time RPG with no pause exist.

 

[Morality Games]

It was a screenshot he posted where he had like 6 or 8 camping supplies.

Yeah it was some talk about camp supplies and i posted a google pic that had a lot of supplies and from there it became a joke that i play on story mode. In reality i played on hard but cheated and didn't used supplies.

Are you really that dumb or are you just pretending....weirdo?

If you want to be taken at your word, you need to inspire confidence (which you seem to take joy and pride in not doing).

 

[Harthwain]

Playing without supplies does allow you to rest as much as you want, which invalidates part of the gameplay balance where managing your supplies is important factor for the overall difficulty of the game. Imagine rest-spamming in Baldur's Gate and loading a save each time you're attacked during camp. Compare that to Darkest Dungeon, for example. In Darkest Dungeon getting waylaid after camping can be severe, because the game does not have save system that allows you to reload at any given moment (unless you cheat, but I was never interested in getting around that to know if you can do that or not) and you have limited camping supplies for the duration of the dungeon.

So, yeah "playing on hard, but not using supplies" is somewhat self-defeating.