Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

Sven said: "Bhaal and maybe a couple of other guys are still around. What’s gonna happen with that? You’re gonna discover when you play BG3", so the question would be: can Baalspawns keep the Essence of Bhaal if Bhaal is back?

No, and in general in 5e there is less chosen and similar entities.
Just mystra have a lot of them.

 

[Elex]

That's the problem - we don't know the exact mechanism here. We can only assume that BG3 tries to be somewhat coherent with what we know so far (otherwise everything is pointless), hence my question.

Baldur's Gate II intro says only that "[...] One such deity foresaw his own death as he walked the land before the Cataclysm. He left the score of mortal offspring, intended to be the fuel for his rebirth. That god was Bhaal, Lord of Murder, and you are one of his children". But "the fuel for his rebirth" is very vague.

Baldur's Gate wiki states this: "Once all the pieces of his divine essence had been collected, he left it to his most trusted deathstalker, Amelyssan, to perform the correct rites to bring about his resurrection and help him regain his power". This would indicate that no Bhaalspawns are around. If I recall correctly the player can either decide to become a god or he just gives the essence away.

The latter suggests that refusing godhood causes Bhaal to be resurrected. The former is that the player becomes a new Bhaal (but the only way for this to make sense would be by some kind of fusion, a'la Arthas and Lich King in Warcraft III: Frozen Throne).

i know that can feel strange but: the lore of bg1/2 don’t go above the tabletop adventure. Not even in the relation between bg1/2 and 3.

the modules are internal to WOTC stuff and they have their internal consistency/timeline wiky.

This is also why they ignore the existence of nwn intellect devourer.

instead is clear that this time BG3 is part of the forgotten realms lore consistency because they have heavy guideline and have a tabletop module as prequel.

this game is more D&D digital than any other game.

It’s 2020 they try to bring D&D to digital not make “another videagame”

 

[Spectacle]

Looking for consistency in Forgotten Realms lore is a fool's errand. Only what's actually described in the module/game you're currently playing should be taken as real, and only in the context of that module.

It is perfectly consistent if you are willing to throw out every piece of lore from 5e, 4e and some from 3e.

LOL, no it's not, it wasn't even consistent back in 2e days. It's definitely gotten more inconsistent over time as they add more stuff, but not really edition related.

Can you name some of those 2e inconsistencies? Serious question, it's not impossible I've forgotten something over the years.

Unfortunately not, only remember from my 2e days 25 years ago that the source material was far from consistent.

 

[Cryomancer]

It is perfectly consistent if you are willing to throw out every piece of lore from 5e, 4e and some from 3e.

Late stages of 3e is when WoTC decided to mess with lore.

Can you name some of those 2e inconsistencies?

Mystra banned spells above 9th tier however, Dark Sun defilers can cast wall of ash. defiler metamorphosis and other 10th tier spells. Maybe because Athas position on the cosmology and how magic works is different but anyway...

Doesn't this get contradicted by MotB to a certain extent?

Myrkul lose all divine essence and ... He is back.

 

[Immortal]

I never said any of the novels are any good

You've said far too much already.

Elminster is still a great character though!

 

[Gyor]

This game is looking way darker then BG1&2 which makes all the worries that it, was going to be as Silly as DOS2 seem funny.

Except Larian's never written anything particularly dark, and even their good writing has a relatively silly tone, so that's not reassuring either based on their track record.

We've seen enough to know the game is very dark, maybe not every moment, but there is clearly no shortage of dark/mature content in the game already.

 

[Gyor]

There are amazing Forgotten Realms novels, all the Haters can take turns choking themselves on Elminister's cock.

 

[NJClaw]

There are amazing Forgotten Realms novels, all the Haters can take turns choking themselves on Elminister's cock.

Or pussy. Or pussycock. Or cockpussy. Or asscock. Or feetpussy. Well, you get the gist of it.

 

[Xamenos]

Late stages of 3e is when WoTC decided to mess with lore.

Agreed.

Mystra banned spells above 9th tier however, Dark Sun defilers can cast wall of ash. defiler metamorphosis and other 10th tier spells. Maybe because Athas position on the cosmology and how magic works is different but anyway...

Athas is a different world than the Forgotten Realms. Mystra's ban holds no relevance in a place without her. Or any gods, for that matter.

Myrkul lose all divine essence and ... He is back.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Forgotten realms was never good

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Late stages of 3e is when WoTC decided to mess with lore.

Agreed.

Mystra banned spells above 9th tier however, Dark Sun defilers can cast wall of ash. defiler metamorphosis and other 10th tier spells. Maybe because Athas position on the cosmology and how magic works is different but anyway...

Athas is a different world than the Forgotten Realms. Mystra's ban holds no relevance in a place without her. Or any gods, for that matter.

Myrkul lose all divine essence and ... He is back.

Mystra banned all spells above level 9 on Faerun. That's one. And even that only applied to FUTURE mages, so any lich, immortal etc. that had those powers still retained them. So even in present day Toril it is absolutely possible to encounter someone capable of casting level 10 and 11 spells.

As I've mentioned before, Planescape makes it abundantly clear that, no matter how "dead" they may appear to be, a god can always return. Always. Even fucking Aoskar's return was a possibility, and he was quite literally consumed by the Lady of Pain.

 

[Xamenos]

Mystra banned all spells above level 9 on Faerun. That's one. And even that only applied to FUTURE mages, so any lich, immortal etc. that had those powers still retained them. So even in present day Toril it is absolutely possible to encounter someone capable of casting level 10 and 11 spells.

This is absolutely false. Neither Larloch nor Ioulaum or any other Netheril survivor could cast any of the 10th and 11th level spells they knew back then. It would be completely idiotic to restrict future spellcasters and not those from the society actually responsible for Mystryl's death and the collapse of magic.

Epic spells, with their Seeds and spellcraft checks are different from 10th level spells, and a mistake imho. It is good that most sourcebooks ignore their existence entirely.

As I've mentioned before, Planescape makes it abundantly clear that, no matter how "dead" they may appear to be, a god can always return. Always. Even fucking Aoskar's return was a possibility, and he was quite literally consumed by the Lady of Pain.

It is possible, yes. But it is exceedingly unlikely. And it should never, ever be done in a footnote between editions that erases all our efforts as players to prevent such an outcome. Or as a prelude to an adventure that kills off a beloved character and retcons away most of his achievements.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Mystra banned all spells above level 9 on Faerun. That's one. And even that only applied to FUTURE mages, so any lich, immortal etc. that had those powers still retained them. So even in present day Toril it is absolutely possible to encounter someone capable of casting level 10 and 11 spells.

This is absolutely false. Neither Larloch nor Ioulaum or any other Netheril survivor could cast any of the 10th and 11th level spells they knew back then. It would be completely idiotic to restrict future spellcasters and not those from the society actually responsible for Mystryl's death and the collapse of magic.

Epic spells, with their Seeds and spellcraft checks are different from 10th level spells, and a mistake imho. It is good that most sourcebooks ignore their existence entirely.

As I've mentioned before, Planescape makes it abundantly clear that, no matter how "dead" they may appear to be, a god can always return. Always. Even fucking Aoskar's return was a possibility, and he was quite literally consumed by the Lady of Pain.

It is possible, yes. But it is exceedingly unlikely. And it should never, ever be done in a footnote between editions that erases all our efforts as players to prevent such an outcome. Or as a prelude to an adventure that kills off a beloved character and retcons away most of his achievements.

To be fair to WotC, their entire 5th Edition is basically "the 4th Edition was unpopular and shit, we need to roll EVERYTHING back." Now imagine if Games Workshop was so generous when bringing back Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[Xamenos]

To be fair to WotC, their entire 5th Edition is basically "the 4th Edition was unpopular and shit, we need to roll EVERYTHING back." Now imagine if Games Workshop was so generous when bringing back Warhammer Fantasy.

True. I understand why they did it. But I would be much happier if they'd just decided to return the clock to 1372 instead of the pseudo-reset they went with. And I don't really care enough about GW or its setting to have an opinion about it.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

To be fair to WotC, their entire 5th Edition is basically "the 4th Edition was unpopular and shit, we need to roll EVERYTHING back." Now imagine if Games Workshop was so generous when bringing back Warhammer Fantasy.

True. I understand why they did it. But I would be much happier if they'd just decided to return the clock to 1372 instead of the pseudo-reset they went with. And I don't really care enough about GW or its setting to have an opinion about it.

WotC is famously unwilling to making outright retcons. What they're doing with 5th Edition is the most radical they've ever been. The only example of "no, this is no longer canon, it never happened" that I know of are the Baldur's Gate novels, and even that took more than a decade despite everyone and their mother ignoring them.

 

[Xamenos]

WotC is famously unwilling to making outright retcons. What they're doing with 5th Edition is the most radical they've ever been. The only example of "no, this is no longer canon, it never happened" that I know of are the Baldur's Gate novels, and even that took more than a decade despite everyone and their mother ignoring them.

They were already willing to undo the mess that 4e shat out. They should have just manned up and done the job properly instead of half-assing it and creating almost as many problems as they solved.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

WotC is famously unwilling to making outright retcons. What they're doing with 5th Edition is the most radical they've ever been. The only example of "no, this is no longer canon, it never happened" that I know of are the Baldur's Gate novels, and even that took more than a decade despite everyone and their mother ignoring them.

They were already willing to undo the mess that 4e shat out. They should have just manned up and done the job properly instead of half-assing it and creating almost as many problems as they solved.

ГФФ ԠДЙЧ ӺЯЭSЊ ЍФVЄLS, ҪФԠЇҪS, ДЍD SЇԠЇLДЯ ШЯЇҬҐЭЙ ԠЭDЇД ЩФЦLD ӉДVЄ ҬФ ЪԐ DЇSҪДЯDЄD - ЇЍ ФГЊЄЯ ЩФЯDS, ЇЍҪЏЯ Д LФSS ФӺ PЯФӺЇГ. ҬӉЇS ЇS ЏИДҪҪЄPГДЪLԐ ҒЯФԠ Д ЪЦSЇЙԐSS SГДЍDPФЇИҐ.

 

[Xamenos]

WotC is famously unwilling to making outright retcons. What they're doing with 5th Edition is the most radical they've ever been. The only example of "no, this is no longer canon, it never happened" that I know of are the Baldur's Gate novels, and even that took more than a decade despite everyone and their mother ignoring them.

They were already willing to undo the mess that 4e shat out. They should have just manned up and done the job properly instead of half-assing it and creating almost as many problems as they solved.

ГФФ ԠДЙЧ ӺЯЭSЊ ЍФVЄLS, ҪФԠЇҪS, ДЍD SЇԠЇLДЯ ШЯЇҬҐЭЙ ԠЭDЇД ЩФЦLD ӉДVЄ ҬФ ЪԐ DЇSҪДЯDЄD - ЇЍ ФГЊЄЯ ЩФЯDS, ЇЍҪЏЯ Д LФSS ФӺ PЯФӺЇГ. ҬӉЇS ЇS ЏИДҪҪЄPГДЪLԐ ҒЯФԠ Д ЪЦSЇЙԐSS SГДЍDPФЇИҐ.

Well, comrade, is is not yet the day the Glorious Revolution comes and the People finally rise up to throw off the yoke of Capitalist Oppression. We'll have to settle for actually achievable goals, like having companies that are slightly less retarded in the pursuit of short-term profit at the expense of long-term gains.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Forgotten realms was never good

Yes, the Forgotten Realms was created after Gary Gygax's ouster from TSR as a replacement for the Greyhawk campaign setting that was itself a blander, more generic version of Gygax's personal campaign world. It was intentionally created to be a bog-standard default AD&D setting, made as derivative and unoriginal as possible, the only saving grace of which is that TSR stripped the setting of the perverted predilections of its initial creator, Ed Greenwood.

 

[Delterius]

BG5 should be set in David Gaider's setting.

 

[Bara]

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ed_Greenwood

1d4chan seems down atm, but it has a nice write up on how Forgotten Realms became Eds personal sex dungeon over time. It has always been a place of debauchery.

What happened to it btw? I remember someone on /tg/ saying it was a database problem or something?

Rumors on the street ranging from it was nuked for good to this is just server migration stuff. People tried to email the guy who ran it but their emails are just bouncing back as it was linked to the website itself or something.

If nothing else some pages are still saved and archived via the way back machine.

 

[Robber Baron]

Watching the EA release date interview got me thinking. I can't name a single strong positive charismatic character made by Larian. It's all passive aggresive satire and mediocrity, the epitome soy/beta mindset. They are so afraid of creating something that has strong positive ideals to stand on they have to resort to irony so people won't think they seriously believe that characters with strong positive ideals can actually work.

 

[Elex]

Late stages of 3e is when WoTC decided to mess with lore.

Agreed.

Mystra banned spells above 9th tier however, Dark Sun defilers can cast wall of ash. defiler metamorphosis and other 10th tier spells. Maybe because Athas position on the cosmology and how magic works is different but anyway...

Athas is a different world than the Forgotten Realms. Mystra's ban holds no relevance in a place without her. Or any gods, for that matter.

Myrkul lose all divine essence and ... He is back.

Mystra banned all spells above level 9 on Faerun. That's one. And even that only applied to FUTURE mages, so any lich, immortal etc. that had those powers still retained them. So even in present day Toril it is absolutely possible to encounter someone capable of casting level 10 and 11 spells.

As I've mentioned before, Planescape makes it abundantly clear that, no matter how "dead" they may appear to be, a god can always return. Always. Even fucking Aoskar's return was a possibility, and he was quite literally consumed by the Lady of Pain.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/08/1...just-the-weavemaster-of-the-forgotten-realms/

 

[Elex]

This is absolutely false. Neither Larloch nor Ioulaum or any other Netheril survivor could cast any of the 10th and 11th level spells they knew back then. It would be completely idiotic to restrict future spellcasters and not those from the society actually responsible for Mystryl's death and the collapse of magic.

Epic spells, with their Seeds and spellcraft checks are different from 10th level spells, and a mistake imho. It is good that most sourcebooks ignore their existence entirely.


It is possible, yes. But it is exceedingly unlikely. And it should never, ever be done in a footnote between editions that erases all our efforts as players to prevent such an outcome. Or as a prelude to an adventure that kills off a beloved character and retcons away most of his achievements.

Gods are resurrected because people don’t like when a god they based their old character 20 year ago was killed.

so they removed all the retarded “divine” rule about being dead having a non overlapping portfolio etc..
AO done it.

 

[Xamenos]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/08/1...just-the-weavemaster-of-the-forgotten-realms/

Well, that much was obvious to anyone who'd bother reading the old books. Still, nice to have it in a form accessible to young'uns.

Gods are resurrected because people don’t like when a god they based their old character 20 year ago was killed.

so they removed all the retarded “divine” rule about being dead having a non overlapping portfolio etc..
AO done it.

I have been active in RPG circles for about that much time. I know people who who liked Bane, were disappointed by his replacement, and were pretty happy when Iyacthu bought it and Bane could be brought back. I have never met a single soul who wanted the same for Bhaal or Myrkul, and plenty who fondly remembered ending their schemes of resurrection in vidya that came out 20 years ago.

I understand it is fashionable to blame "the people" whenever a high status individual fucks up. Sometimes it is even true. God knows the people are stupid. But in this case, there was no groundswell of support for Myrkul's and Bhaal's resurrection. No "people who based their character on them 20 years ago", when the novels detailing the Times of Trouble actually came out more than 30 years ago and those two of the Dead Three were never that popular to begin with. It was, as the comrade said above, the sole decision of Wizards execs to hit the reset button in this way.