Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[rusty_shackleford]

This is absolutely false. Neither Larloch nor Ioulaum or any other Netheril survivor could cast any of the 10th and 11th level spells they knew back then. It would be completely idiotic to restrict future spellcasters and not those from the society actually responsible for Mystryl's death and the collapse of magic.

Epic spells, with their Seeds and spellcraft checks are different from 10th level spells, and a mistake imho. It is good that most sourcebooks ignore their existence entirely.


It is possible, yes. But it is exceedingly unlikely. And it should never, ever be done in a footnote between editions that erases all our efforts as players to prevent such an outcome. Or as a prelude to an adventure that kills off a beloved character and retcons away most of his achievements.

Gods are resurrected because people don’t like when a god they based their old character 20 year ago was killed.

so they removed all the retarded “divine” rule about being dead having a non overlapping portfolio etc..
AO done it.

roleplaying a paladin that worships a dead god would be cool wtf
honestly sounds like it deserves its own class or at least archetype

 

[ERYFKRAD]

This is absolutely false. Neither Larloch nor Ioulaum or any other Netheril survivor could cast any of the 10th and 11th level spells they knew back then. It would be completely idiotic to restrict future spellcasters and not those from the society actually responsible for Mystryl's death and the collapse of magic.

Epic spells, with their Seeds and spellcraft checks are different from 10th level spells, and a mistake imho. It is good that most sourcebooks ignore their existence entirely.


It is possible, yes. But it is exceedingly unlikely. And it should never, ever be done in a footnote between editions that erases all our efforts as players to prevent such an outcome. Or as a prelude to an adventure that kills off a beloved character and retcons away most of his achievements.

Gods are resurrected because people don’t like when a god they based their old character 20 year ago was killed.

so they removed all the retarded “divine” rule about being dead having a non overlapping portfolio etc..
AO done it.

roleplaying a paladin that worships a dead god would be cool wtf
honestly sounds like it deserves its own class or at least archetype

Is there not some stipulation that a god is not dead if he is worshipped?

 

[Prime Junta]

Putting a cock on a female should have you cremated on the spot.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Putting a cock on a female should have you cremated on the spot.

Not on the alleged female.

 

[Xamenos]

Is there not some stipulation that a god is not dead if he is worshipped?

There are various states of divine deadness in DnD cosmology. A living god is worshiped by many and acknowledged by more, his power proportional to their belief. A dead god is worshiped by no one, forgotten by all. But there are states in-between, where a god has enough worshipers to not die out completely, but not enough to be active and perform miracles. A consciousness with no power, doomed to fade as his inability to answer prayers causes even his last worshippers to slowly abandon him. Myrkul was in this state during MotB.

roleplaying a paladin that worships a dead god would be cool wtf
honestly sounds like it deserves its own class or at least archetype

During college, a long time ago, I ran a campaign where the party's paladin was exactly that. The idea the player came for his backstory was that his character had been scum, got exiled to a desert and a dead, forgotten god saved him from death and gave him his powers. The paladin's goal was to discover more about his nameless god and through valiant deeds spread his worship far enough that the god would be resurrected. My twist was that the main bad guy of the campaign had the exact same goal, only through the more evil means of ritual and mass sacrifice, and that this god was not nearly as Good in ancient times as the paladin had assumed.

Sadly, the campaign fell apart when one of the other players proved disruptive. I never got to pull of the reveal.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Is there not some stipulation that a god is not dead if he is worshipped?

There are various states of divine deadness in DnD cosmology. A living god is worshiped by many and acknowledged by more, his power proportional to their belief. A dead god is worshiped by no one, forgotten by all. But there are states in-between, where a god has enough worshipers to not die out completely, but not enough to be active and perform miracles. A consciousness with no power, doomed to fade as his inability to answer prayers causes even his last worshippers to slowly abandon him. Myrkul was in this state during MotB.

roleplaying a paladin that worships a dead god would be cool wtf
honestly sounds like it deserves its own class or at least archetype

During college, a long time ago, I ran a campaign where the party's paladin was exactly that. The idea the player came for his backstory was that his character had been scum, got exiled to a desert and a dead, forgotten god saved him from death and gave him his powers. The paladin's goal was to discover more about his nameless god and through valiant deeds spread his worship far enough that the god would be resurrected. My twist was that the main bad guy of the campaign had the exact same goal, only through the more evil means of ritual and mass sacrifice, and that this god was not nearly as Good in ancient times as the paladin had assumed.

Sadly, the campaign fell apart when one of the other players proved disruptive. I never got to pull of the reveal.

There's also the case of the Unknown God worshipped by (some) of the Athar - they literally know nothing about it; it never communicated with them, and yet still grants spells to its priest(s) (only one is confirmed to exist - the leader of the faction). And yes, I know the deity is implied to be "our" God, but the point still stands that "being" is a relative thing for deities.

 

[ChildInTime]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

 

[fantadomat]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

Thank God they didn't made it,it sounds terrible.

 

[ChildInTime]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

Thank God they didn't made it,it sounds terrible.

I think it could even work like a normal adventure - avatars like standard D&D characters, with higher divine rank = more levels and all that.

 

[Prime Junta]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

Yeah that was George Ziets' idea I believe.

 

[Grauken]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

Yeah that was George Ziets' idea I believe.

This sounds awesome

 

[Terra]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

 

[Cryomancer]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

Sounds so amazing, but we will get a dungeons & kobolds game in 5e,.

 

[ChildInTime]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

 

[Harthwain]

Going on the run across the planes? Death not being the end? Sounds very Torment-esque.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

There's a book series about Finder Wyverspurn, a mortal who becomes a minor deity, who also holds the portfolio of the god of pestilence but refuses to use it. So this idea wouldn't even be something novel to the Forgotten Realms. Alas, implementing such a game would require WotC to actually include the Bhaalspawn in their wider canon. Too much hassle.

But, you know Owlcat, you're really fond of picking up ideas botched by other devs and improving upon them - how about it?

 

[ChildInTime]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

There's a book series about Finder Wyverspurn, a mortal who becomes a minor deity, who also holds the portfolio of the god of pestilence but refuses to use it. So this idea wouldn't even be something novel to the Forgotten Realms. Alas, implementing such a game would require WotC to actually include the Bhaalspawn in their wider canon. Too much hassle.

But, you know Owlcat, you're really fond of picking up ideas botched by other devs and improving upon them - how about it?

What are the series called, and are the books in english? Only thing mighty Google shows me is some spanish forum or something mentioning that name.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

There's a book series about Finder Wyverspurn, a mortal who becomes a minor deity, who also holds the portfolio of the god of pestilence but refuses to use it. So this idea wouldn't even be something novel to the Forgotten Realms. Alas, implementing such a game would require WotC to actually include the Bhaalspawn in their wider canon. Too much hassle.

But, you know Owlcat, you're really fond of picking up ideas botched by other devs and improving upon them - how about it?

What are the series called, and are the books in english? Only thing mighty Google shows me is some spanish forum or something mentioning that name.

The Finder's Stone trilogy covers the adventures of Alias, Dragonbait, Olive Ruskettle, and Finder Wyvernspur as they travel the Dalelands. The books were written by Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak.

Related novels include Masquerades, Finder's Bane, and Tymora's Luck.

The Finder's Stone

1. Azure Bonds (1988)
2. The Wyvern's Spur (1990)
3. Song of the Saurials (1991)

It's one of those. Some of them have him still as a mortal.

EDIT: It's Finder's Bane. Although, from what I recall, the entire Lost Gods trilogy is something like that.

 

[Akachi]

Given the date BG3 is going into Early Access, I take it we won't be getting anything at all from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything in this game? Can't wait for Larian to make it into a DLC to get more options as a player and in their DM toolset, working with WotC to replicate that DND Beyond feeling of buying everything multiple times.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

ҪФԠЯДDԐS! PЯЭPДЯԐ ҬФ LДЦGҤ!

Wizards of the Coast has also sent me a reply to my query about what is considered "canon" around the events of the Bhaalspawn Crisis. Here's their reply.

Hello,

Thanks for contacting Customer Service for help with your lore questions! While Wizards of the Coast offers numerous ways to help you understand how to play Dungeons & Dragons, we do not offer support for rules or lore questions.

At the end of the day, D&D is a game. What’s most important while engaged in these epic roleplaying scenarios is having fun. Your DM has to make the final decisions on the fate of the characters in your collective imaginary world. They are the authority. Not Wizards of the Coast, the internet, or even fellow players get to make the final call on a rules or lore decision in your own campaign. Sure, we provide reference materials for setting up your campaigns, but your world is your own to explore and make memories in. Don’t forget to have a good time while doing so.

ЇГ'S SЄГҐLЄD ҬЊԐЍ! SЇЍҪЭ Ї'Ԡ ҐӉЭ DФЍЄ DЄҪЇDЇИG ФЍ ШҢДҬ ЇS ҪДЍФЙ ДЙD ШӉДГ ЇS ИФҬ, Ї ЊԐЯЄЬЧ DԐҪLДЯЭ ГҤДҬ ЇԠФԐИ ЇS ҐЊЭ ФҒҒЇҪЇДL ЯФԠДЍҪЄ.

But to be serious - this is not only even more of a non-answer than Larian; it's also different from what was written back to me several months ago. So either the various PR representatives are making up answers as they go along, or WotC became more tight-lipped in order to not slip up and reveal something which will be present within the game.

 

[Xamenos]

ҪФԠЯДDԐS! PЯЭPДЯԐ ҬФ LДЦGҤ!

Wizards of the Coast has also sent me a reply to my query about what is considered "canon" around the events of the Bhaalspawn Crisis. Here's their reply.

Hello,

Thanks for contacting Customer Service for help with your lore questions! While Wizards of the Coast offers numerous ways to help you understand how to play Dungeons & Dragons, we do not offer support for rules or lore questions.

At the end of the day, D&D is a game. What’s most important while engaged in these epic roleplaying scenarios is having fun. Your DM has to make the final decisions on the fate of the characters in your collective imaginary world. They are the authority. Not Wizards of the Coast, the internet, or even fellow players get to make the final call on a rules or lore decision in your own campaign. Sure, we provide reference materials for setting up your campaigns, but your world is your own to explore and make memories in. Don’t forget to have a good time while doing so.

ЇГ'S SЄГҐLЄD ҬЊԐЍ! SЇЍҪЭ Ї'Ԡ ҐӉЭ DФЍЄ DЄҪЇDЇИG ФЍ ШҢДҬ ЇS ҪДЍФЙ ДЙD ШӉДГ ЇS ИФҬ, Ї ЊԐЯЄЬЧ DԐҪLДЯЭ ГҤДҬ ЇԠФԐИ ЇS ҐЊЭ ФҒҒЇҪЇДL ЯФԠДЍҪЄ.

But to be serious - this is not only even more of a non-answer than Larian; it's also different from what was written back to me several months ago. So either the various PR representatives are making up answers as they go along, or WotC became more tight-lipped in order to not slip up and reveal something which will be present within the game.

Sounds like whoever gave you the ok to unperson Athans and his books got a lashing and they're not extra careful not to offend.

 

[ChildInTime]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

There's a book series about Finder Wyverspurn, a mortal who becomes a minor deity, who also holds the portfolio of the god of pestilence but refuses to use it. So this idea wouldn't even be something novel to the Forgotten Realms. Alas, implementing such a game would require WotC to actually include the Bhaalspawn in their wider canon. Too much hassle.

But, you know Owlcat, you're really fond of picking up ideas botched by other devs and improving upon them - how about it?

What are the series called, and are the books in english? Only thing mighty Google shows me is some spanish forum or something mentioning that name.

The Finder's Stone trilogy covers the adventures of Alias, Dragonbait, Olive Ruskettle, and Finder Wyvernspur as they travel the Dalelands. The books were written by Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak.

Related novels include Masquerades, Finder's Bane, and Tymora's Luck.

The Finder's Stone

1. Azure Bonds (1988)
2. The Wyvern's Spur (1990)
3. Song of the Saurials (1991)

It's one of those. Some of them have him still as a mortal.

EDIT: It's Finder's Bane. Although, from what I recall, the entire Lost Gods trilogy is something like that.

Now I remember actually reading Azure Bonds a loooong time ago, huh. Guess this and BG2 are where my hate for Harpers comes from.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

ҪФԠЯДDԐS! PЯЭPДЯԐ ҬФ LДЦGҤ!

Wizards of the Coast has also sent me a reply to my query about what is considered "canon" around the events of the Bhaalspawn Crisis. Here's their reply.

Hello,

Thanks for contacting Customer Service for help with your lore questions! While Wizards of the Coast offers numerous ways to help you understand how to play Dungeons & Dragons, we do not offer support for rules or lore questions.

At the end of the day, D&D is a game. What’s most important while engaged in these epic roleplaying scenarios is having fun. Your DM has to make the final decisions on the fate of the characters in your collective imaginary world. They are the authority. Not Wizards of the Coast, the internet, or even fellow players get to make the final call on a rules or lore decision in your own campaign. Sure, we provide reference materials for setting up your campaigns, but your world is your own to explore and make memories in. Don’t forget to have a good time while doing so.

ЇГ'S SЄГҐLЄD ҬЊԐЍ! SЇЍҪЭ Ї'Ԡ ҐӉЭ DФЍЄ DЄҪЇDЇИG ФЍ ШҢДҬ ЇS ҪДЍФЙ ДЙD ШӉДГ ЇS ИФҬ, Ї ЊԐЯЄЬЧ DԐҪLДЯЭ ГҤДҬ ЇԠФԐИ ЇS ҐЊЭ ФҒҒЇҪЇДL ЯФԠДЍҪЄ.

But to be serious - this is not only even more of a non-answer than Larian; it's also different from what was written back to me several months ago. So either the various PR representatives are making up answers as they go along, or WotC became more tight-lipped in order to not slip up and reveal something which will be present within the game.

Sounds like whoever gave you the ok to unperson Athans and his books got a lashing and they're not extra careful not to offend.

I'm not the only one who got the message about the de-canonisation of the novels. The Forgotten Realms Wiki also purged any information connecting the novels to canon, for example.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

All this discussion about gods in DnD reminded me - there was a post somewhere about the plan for a BG sequel - with MC being a god, having avatars and needing to gather worshippers, upgrading divine rank etc., all while being chased by some other gods who don't really like that the new upstart took a lot of the portfolio that was previously theirs. Anyone remembers this?

https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

Sounds fucking lit. Honestly, I like Swens BG3, but this would have been so much better.

There's a book series about Finder Wyverspurn, a mortal who becomes a minor deity, who also holds the portfolio of the god of pestilence but refuses to use it. So this idea wouldn't even be something novel to the Forgotten Realms. Alas, implementing such a game would require WotC to actually include the Bhaalspawn in their wider canon. Too much hassle.

But, you know Owlcat, you're really fond of picking up ideas botched by other devs and improving upon them - how about it?

What are the series called, and are the books in english? Only thing mighty Google shows me is some spanish forum or something mentioning that name.

The Finder's Stone trilogy covers the adventures of Alias, Dragonbait, Olive Ruskettle, and Finder Wyvernspur as they travel the Dalelands. The books were written by Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak.

Related novels include Masquerades, Finder's Bane, and Tymora's Luck.

The Finder's Stone

1. Azure Bonds (1988)
2. The Wyvern's Spur (1990)
3. Song of the Saurials (1991)

It's one of those. Some of them have him still as a mortal.

EDIT: It's Finder's Bane. Although, from what I recall, the entire Lost Gods trilogy is something like that.

Now I remember actually reading Azure Bonds a loooong time ago, huh. Guess this and BG2 are where my hate for Harpers comes from.

Truth be told, I'm not even certain whether the Harpers are supposed to be sympathetic, or rather a necessary/lesser evil.

 

[Delterius]

Apparently Athans was commissioned to write the novels in one week and he did so without sleep and eating off frozen meals. It would be insane for anyone to be married to them.