Game News Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Funded

[mindx2]

Graphical touchstones. He watched the in-engine video we all saw, there's no gameplay there.

http://www.gamingnexus.com/Article/4862/Bards-Tale-IV-Interview/

How will combat in the game work? Is it turn based?
The short answer is yes, it’s turn based.

Hmm. Missed this bit.

However, I will not put it past InXile to reinterpret what is TB into what their vision demands. Considering that these terms hardly concretely defined, I can see many people taking liberties with them. Still, I would rather play a real TB blobber than a Grimrock anyday.

Not sure why you think InXile would not go turn-based as all of their KS games have been (W2)/ will be (Torment) turn-based? You don't seem to like "blobbers", I get it but to interpret all their updates the way you have is confusing. They're not Obsidian (RTwP) you know....

 

[Shevek]

Its phase based. Thats all that quote meant.

 

[vivec]

Not sure why you think InXile would not go turn-based as all of their KS games have been (W2)/ will be (Torment) turn-based? You don't seem to like "blobbers", I get it but to interpret all their updates the way you have is confusing. They're not Obsidian (RTwP) you know....

Aye, I do not like blobbing. But I agree with Shevek here that the phase based part is unnecessarily muddled by the presenters. They could have just come ahead with the clear presentation of the mechanics and I would have been better informed as a result.

 

[Brother None]

However, I will not put it past InXile to reinterpret what is TB into what their vision demands.

Why would we do that? Our love of turn-based is well known and has not changed!

Once we've got more prototyping done for combat hopefully we can share more, there are a lot of questions that are hard to answer other than by just showing what we're doing.

 

[vivec]

However, I will not put it past InXile to reinterpret what is TB into what their vision demands.

Why would we do that? Our love of turn-based is well known and has not changed!

Once we've got more prototyping done for combat hopefully we can share more, there are a lot of questions that are hard to answer other than by just showing what we're doing.

Is that really an attestation of a Turn Based mechanics for Bard's Tale 4? As in, where you actually go char-by-char resolving the effects after turn of each before moving on? If so, I would be glad to accept that my criticism is ill-directed.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv/posts/1292801

Thanks To You, We Are Funded! What's Next?

Hello Exiles,

We did it! Thanks to you, we did not just fund The Bard's Tale IV, but went past the base goal to raise a total of $1.5 million! We can't thank you enough for your backing and your passion for classic RPGs.

So what's next? The Bard's Tale IV can now continue its pre-production stage before moving into full development. Most of the studio is currently working on Torment: Tides of Numenera, and a smaller team is on Wasteland 2 Director's Cut. As those projects wrap up we'll move people on to The Bard's Tale IV. We will of course keep you updated along the way!

Many of you have asked, now that the Kickstarter is over, if we will still be taking ongoing funding. The answer is yes! We will continue to take pledges on our own web site.

Processing Pledges and Rewards
Just like Wasteland 2 and Torment, we will be building our own backer web site where you can manage your pledge and claim your rewards. We will inform you when the site is available.

We've been getting questions about what happens for certain rewards, like the first 48 hour bonus games or the emulated Bard's Tale Trilogy, as well as add-ons. These will be made available once the backer site is online. Keep a close eye on your inbox because we'll be contacting you about these.

If Kickstarter has emailed you warning you of a problem with your pledge, note that it grants a grace period in which you can resolve the issue. If Kickstarter alerts you to any issues, please follow the instructions provided by them. For more information, you can check Kickstarter's Help Center.

Stretch Goals
During the campaign, we hit several, though not all of our stretch goals. The Enhanced CNPC System, Enhanced Crafting, and dungeons from the RPG Super Team of Monte Cook, Bruce Cordell, Wolfgang Baur and Sean K Reynolds will all be included, and for that we are very excited.

Because we have not yet entered full production, we have flexibility on game scope and content. As we continue to raise fund the game through PayPal pledges, as well as other sources like our back catalog, we will be constantly evaluating what we can add. We definitely hope to include some of our other stretch goal content in post-campaign funding and we'll be keeping you advised of our progress.

Of course, that doesn't mean we are looking at a small game. If you've read our touch points document, you'll know The Bard's Tale IV will be a formidably sized experience, and you can bet we will do everything to exceed your expectations.

 

[Athelas]

We definitely hope to include some of our other stretch goal content in post-campaign funding and we'll be keeping you advised of our progress.

Instead of a dungeon, MCA could design a single room.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The campaign was just weird honestly. On the one hand, they threw amazing amount of information, tons of concept art, music and even in-engine video, for anyone who might have doubts that this is a serious project. Its probably one of the better prepared Kickstarters I've seen.

But somehow they just couldn't connect with the community at all. Nothing they've said would click with me, their answers only ended up raising more questions, and the whole thing seemed to painfully lack focus. Thankfully they're a semi-serious developer now , isntead of a rag-tag band of misfits quickly put together, and they have enough of their own funding from WL2 and soon Torment to invest into Bard if neccessary.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

I am really surprised that there is *any* audience for blobbers at all. Blobbers offered fringe mechanics that only appealed to a few while other people played the blobber games for its non-blobber aspects. Wizardry immediately jumps to mind as a game which would be miles better if it were NOT a blobber. The blobber genre to me always looked like an ARPG wannabe that could not just let go of its roots.

No wonder Fargo cannot attract an audience for this game. Bard's tale is not only a very old game known to few but also has mechanics surreptitiously superseded by modern games. The success of the Grimrock games was a tragedy that should never have taken place. They only succeeded by excelling in areas other than the blobbing, methinks. Unfortunately, the blobber aspect is so tightly tied to the BT franchise that Fargo cannot but resurrect without resorting to what to me feels like inadequate and anachronistic playstyle. The best he could do to garner more funds was to place the bait at the end in the form of Chris Avellone. One can only guess from the results that even this maneuver failed in the face of the disinterested gamers.

well said

 

[Lady_Error]

I am really surprised that there is *any* audience for blobbers at all. Blobbers offered fringe mechanics that only appealed to a few while other people played the blobber games for its non-blobber aspects. Wizardry immediately jumps to mind as a game which would be miles better if it were NOT a blobber. The blobber genre to me always looked like an ARPG wannabe that could not just let go of its roots.

No wonder Fargo cannot attract an audience for this game. Bard's tale is not only a very old game known to few but also has mechanics surreptitiously superseded by modern games. The success of the Grimrock games was a tragedy that should never have taken place. They only succeeded by excelling in areas other than the blobbing, methinks. Unfortunately, the blobber aspect is so tightly tied to the BT franchise that Fargo cannot but resurrect without resorting to what to me feels like inadequate and anachronistic playstyle. The best he could do to garner more funds was to place the bait at the end in the form of Chris Avellone. One can only guess from the results that even this maneuver failed in the face of the disinterested gamers.

well said

Really? The only aspect of BT4 that is sort of "anachronistic" is the step-movement. However, there are blobbers with free movement as well, like the later Might & Magic games or Wizardry 8. So step-movement is not a core mechanic of blobbers.

And what exactly is anachronistic about having several party members instead of just one? I don't get it.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Blobbers were blocky first person RPGs with a party tacked on. It's coincidental design and just sticking to it for the sake of sticking to it is nostalgia derpness.

 

[Excidium II]

There's nothing wrong with blobbing itself, it's about as "anachronistic" as top-down view angles. The problem with blobbers in general is being stagnated as fuck even for CRPG standards. Play a handful and you've played them all, 20 years later people still want to play the same shit

So step-movement is not a core mechanic of blobbers.

Indeed, it's just the proper way.

 

[vivec]

I would disagree. Blobbers preclude tactical movement and as such offer less than what a top-down view can offer. That is beyond a doubt. A movement based FPS view in fact is no problem at all, as long as one can switch to a top-down view in combat. Bard's tale 4 definitely looks beautiful in such a view.

 

[Excidium II]

I would disagree. Blobbers preclude tactical movement and as such offer less than what a top-down view can offer. That is beyond a doubt.

That is wrong as fuck. Tactical grids common in top-down games limits design in some ways. Because of the precise positioning it's very difficult to do phase-based combat for instance, which is superior to the common turn-based approach.

Most blobbers just don't make good use the freedom they have. The genre is even more full of I slap you and you slap me combat that plagues CRPGs

 

[vivec]

I would disagree. Blobbers preclude tactical movement and as such offer less than what a top-down view can offer. That is beyond a doubt.

That is wrong as fuck. Tactical grids common in top-down games limits design in some ways. Because of the precise positioning it's very difficult to do phase-based combat for instance, which is superior to the common turn-based approach.

Most blobbers just don't make good use the freedom they have. The genre is even more full of I slap you and you slap me combat that plagues CRPGs

Everyone to their taste I guess. However, I can not buy this logic at all. You are holding *one* parameter, that of simultaneous movement (if I understand you right by the phase based combat) as *the* good thing and judging by that. I would think that such a mechanics is prone to numerous problems including highly AI dependent behavior, which can be easily exploited. On the other hand, the Turn Based approach is easy to code for better AI responsiveness. Moreover, it adds the tactical level I talked about where movement and positioning is an important aspect of the game. This by itself provides a simulated feel of real-life maneuvers on top of the tactical use of abilities. This itself can give rise to a huge variety of emergent gameplay creating a wide variety of situations even with limited resources. One reason why Jagged Alliance 2 rocks is exactly the tactical movement and positioning. On the contrary, Wizardry was an amazing game because of it character generation and abilities.

Thus, you only end up gaining the simultaneity advantage in phase based combat while losing a lot more.

 

[Athelas]

That is wrong as fuck. Tactical grids common in top-down games limits design in some ways. Because of the precise positioning it's very difficult to do phase-based combat for instance, which is superior to the common turn-based approach.

Have you played Frozen Synapse?

 

[Excidium II]

No. But I've seen videos of it. Don't think it'd work well in a complex CRPG.

 

[Athelas]

No. But I've seen videos of it. Don't think it'd work well in a complex CRPG.

Why not?

I'm still not sure why you think simultaneous positioning/movement would be problematic. I've also seen it pulled off in other phase-based games just fine.

 

[Excidium II]

You people think too much about simultaneity. Phase-based combat is just separated phases for declaration and resolution, shit can and is generally still done by taking turns. If you assume I'm talking about simultaneous resolution you are mistaken

No. But I've seen videos of it. Don't think it'd work well in a complex CRPG.

Why not?

Because it'd probably end up looking like a clusterfuck. If you want things to be simultaneous might as well go real time

 

[Athelas]

You people think too much about simultaneity. Phase-based combat is just separated phases for declaration and resolution, shit can and is generally still done by taking turns.

Then I'm not sure why you brought up issues with positioning and movement. If separate turns are maintained within a phase, those shouldn't pose an issue at all.

Because it'd probably end up looking like a clusterfuck.

Only if the developers are incompetent (though admittedly there is a high likelihood of that being the case).

 

[vivec]

I am now officially confused. What *is* going on here?

 

[Excidium II]

Then I'm not sure why you brought up issues with positioning and movement. If separate turns are maintained within a phase, those shouldn't pose an issue at all.

It tends to devolve into some stupidity like casting AoE on nothing or being a cell short of attacking someone because the target was earlier in the initiative order. When I played an RPG with this type of combat resolution I had to ditch the idea of precise positioning p. fast. In a CRPG without the luxury of human refereeing, things would be even worse in that regard

Because it'd probably end up looking like a clusterfuck.

Only if the developers are incompetent (though admittedly there is a high likelihood of that being the case).

Exactly

 

[Lady_Error]

Blobbers preclude tactical movement and as such offer less than what a top-down view can offer.

There is a type of blobbers like Realms of Arkania or the Gold Box games that offer first person exploration and switch to top-down view in combat.

And even the purely first person blobbers offer some positioning options - the front row and the back row like in Wizardry, and now in Bard's Tale 4 the positioning will even include slots you can move your characters into.

 

[Athelas]

It tends to devolve into some stupidity like casting AoE on nothing or being a cell short of attacking someone because the target was earlier in the initiative order. When I played an RPG with this type of combat resolution I had to ditch the idea of precise positioning p. fast. In a CRPG without the luxury of human refereeing, things would be even worse in that regard

Those don't sound like game-breaking issues to me, assuming they can be avoided with careful planning. Anticipating what the enemy's going to do, and occasionally seeing your carefully prepared strategy go horribly wrong, is half the fun in phase-based games. One phase-based game I played made the enemy's idle animation during the deliberation phase change depending on what attack he was going to use in the execution phase, so you could prepare and for instance scatter your characters away from each other to minimize the impact from an incoming AoE attack.

One cool thing Frozen Synapse lets you do is set a 'wait' period as part of the phase, letting you determine exactly when your character is going to act in relation to the enemy.

 

[Excidium II]

It tends to devolve into some stupidity like casting AoE on nothing or being a cell short of attacking someone because the target was earlier in the initiative order. When I played an RPG with this type of combat resolution I had to ditch the idea of precise positioning p. fast. In a CRPG without the luxury of human refereeing, things would be even worse in that regard

Those don't sound like game-breaking issues to me, assuming they can be avoided with careful planning. Anticipating what the enemy's going to do is half the fun in phase-based games. One phase-based game I played made the enemy's idle animation during the deliberation phase change depending on what attack he was going to use in the execution phase, so you could prepare and for instance move out of the way of an incoming AoE attack.

Yeah. It's not knowing the exact outcome of actions that makes it fun, but the discrete turns sometimes break the idea that things are *supposed* to be happening roughly simultaneously in combat, which is what actual simultaenous resolution tries to solve, introducing other difficulties.

Guess it's why this approach got...phased out in the end