Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[overtenemy]

When you target an alp with a ranged weapon it doesn't tell you about any maluses like it used to, but arrows don't do shit to them. Throwing axes do full damage though, just like skellingtons. Unclear why this is the case but be advised.

Qatal seems powerful but I'm unconvinced a little, especially on Viper. You need to take duelist for it, which you could replace with backstabber and get straight to puncturing with a rondel, without any setup required. On Viper in particular, if you build him as a two hander and he gets a kill, he can attack move attack, or even more hilariously, if he gets two kills with a swing or split he can RECOVER. That's god tier right there. Dagger sort of feels wasteful somehow. I got an undead invasion second crisis and switched him to 2h mace just for ancients and it was so effective I almost didn't go back to the weapon he was specialized in.

I can't claim I've tried them yet but with the alchemist retinue dude it has occurred to me that beast slayers may not be complete dogshit anymore. The additional $$$ trophies from beasts are neat too. Do they have a chance to get extras on those?

also

smugface

 

[Andronovo]

So far my largest complaint about the core gameplay, is the stupid amount of opportunity acts you get when someone tries to take a single step. It means that, very much unlike real medieval combat, once you're in the melee you either win or you die. Fleeing means death 95% of the time. You would think people in universe would know that and never try to flee. Is there a mod that limits opportunity attacks to one per person per turn?

 

[Space Satan]

It means that, very much unlike real medieval combat

In real combat i also meant that you won't be fighting undead, or monsters or have magic. Game is already unforgiving for fleeing bros and enemies and chances you wont made it are always high.

 

[Andronovo]

In real combat i also meant that you won't be fighting undead, or monsters or have magic. Game is already unforgiving for fleeing bros and enemies and chances you wont made it are always high.

Wait... what? Are you disagreeing me or not?

 

[Space Satan]

Medieval combat is not about squabbles of dozen of men, and those in the first lines would either die or be taken capture, while those in the back will flee. Works here as well. There are skills for avoiding opportunity attacks and flee immediate danger.

 

[Tigranes]

I find the realism argument meaningless here. For gameplay, it would be interesting to limit AOOs to one, but only if all the other skills were rebalanced. Spearwall wouldn't make any sense as is, and a lot of the skills like rotation/footwork would become 80% less useful as well.

 

[Andronovo]

...There are skills for avoiding opportunity attacks and flee immediate danger.

There's two of them, and one of them is useless because in any situation when you would use it, you're very unlikely to be able to because of the high fatigue cost. The other one requires you move someone else in harms way, so if you're planning to flee the whole field of battle, you're just exchanging one life for another.

I find the realism argument meaningless here. For gameplay, it would be interesting to limit AOOs to one, but only if all the other skills were rebalanced. Spearwall wouldn't make any sense as is, and a lot of the skills like rotation/footwork would become 80% less useful as well.

Fair enough, spearwall would obviously be excluded from this rule. You could also have a perk with a large fatigue cost that lets to enter a state, like spearwall or riposte, that gives you a whole lot of attacks against anyone who moves through you space.

A nice benefit of this is it would make acquiring armor easier, as there would be less need to fully encircle fleeing enemies before they get annihilated by four opportunity attacks from one person.

 

[Horvatii]

Qatal

Its shit. Havent used it much though. Deathstrikes need a status effect to trigger and only do +33 dmg gee wee who gives a fuck.

Arena is for quick level ups xD

Have you guys discovered how absolutely batshit this is on a high init backliner?

Thats a 100% complete disable at 3 tiles range!
With Backstabber working (I think), spec in Cleavers drops the fat cost below 1turn recovery and removes -15 acc.
That 2H Hammer wielding, scary as hell, Hedge Knight gets surrounded and FUKKED UP without even getting a strike in lul.
2H wielders are a specialty target for this cause they cant reequip and attack on the same turn.

Who would you take?

Basically, 90 fat is pretty bad, in armor that will dwindle to 60 vs 50 fat and 50 fat is like 10 attacks over 5 rounds and you are done...
The other guys has low init at 91, but everyone has low init in armor...
Im trending toward the 57* matt

 

[Darth Canoli]

I find the realism argument meaningless here. For gameplay, it would be interesting to limit AOOs to one, but only if all the other skills were rebalanced. Spearwall wouldn't make any sense as is, and a lot of the skills like rotation/footwork would become 80% less useful as well.

It's tedious enough to run after fleeing enemies so i absolutely disagree about reducing the number of AoO.
Footwork could use a little boost though, it costs too much fatigue.

Nice one, it's my third favorite 2H weapon after the 2H sword and the hammer, axe close fourth and flail last, although a good named item can jump to the first position regardless.

 

[Tigranes]

...There are skills for avoiding opportunity attacks and flee immediate danger.

There's two of them, and one of them is useless because in any situation when you would use it, you're very unlikely to be able to because of the high fatigue cost. The other one requires you move someone else in harms way, so if you're planning to flee the whole field of battle, you're just exchanging one life for another.

I find the realism argument meaningless here. For gameplay, it would be interesting to limit AOOs to one, but only if all the other skills were rebalanced. Spearwall wouldn't make any sense as is, and a lot of the skills like rotation/footwork would become 80% less useful as well.

Fair enough, spearwall would obviously be excluded from this rule. You could also have a perk with a large fatigue cost that lets to enter a state, like spearwall or riposte, that gives you a whole lot of attacks against anyone who moves through you space.

A nice benefit of this is it would make acquiring armor easier, as there would be less need to fully encircle fleeing enemies before they get annihilated by four opportunity attacks from one person.

I think you're severely downplaying rotation/footwork. Rotation in particular is widely considered top tier. In the current system, being able to make specific changes to an already engaged fight can make all the difference (though yes footwork cost is high).

You can save a bro from certain death by having rotation or footwork. You might have a dude surrounded on one flank, only for him to rotate in a two-hander who wide swings three of them dead. You can use footwork to reach that necromancer/witch in the back despite enemies getting in your way. And so on. Using rotation/footwork solely for a Full Retreat seems a very narrow use case.

Going to a single-AOO model should also mean modding in new skills, like a perk to let you AOO more often. I think it'd be a fun mod to have around, but I wouldn't champion it as the vanilla setting.

 

[Horvatii]

Whats the best tictacs to fight serpents at about level 5, 110 armor?
2h is not good.
In the arena, the best I found is giving them 4 tiles distance. Wait and they stop at 2 tiles, so you get 2 attacks on 1 of them.
But then you have to tank 3 attacks. They bite for 50-70 once and it hurts... There is a good chance they try to focus one guy too.
2 of their attacks land and thats easy at 40% and your guy is just praying for miracle.
High acc weaps work best, at least boar spear, scimitar, arming sword.

Any tricks?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Whats the best tictacs to fight serpents at about level 5, 110 armor?
2h is not good.
In the arena, the best I found is giving them 4 tiles distance. Wait and they stop at 2 tiles, so you get 2 attacks on 1 of them.
But then you have to tank 3 attacks. They bite for 50-70 once and it hurts... There is a good chance they try to focus one guy too.
2 of their attacks land and thats easy at 40% and your guy is just praying for miracle.
High acc weaps work best, at least boar spear, scimitar, arming sword.

Any tricks?

The fencer does a marvelous job and then your 2H swordman with adrenaline to finish them off...
Of course, if the fencer misses, better hope he has a high enough defense...

 

[Andronovo]

I think you're severely downplaying rotation/footwork. Rotation in particular is widely considered top tier. In the current system, being able to make specific changes to an already engaged fight can make all the difference (though yes footwork cost is high).

You can save a bro from certain death by having rotation or footwork. You might have a dude surrounded on one flank, only for him to rotate in a two-hander who wide swings three of them dead. You can use footwork to reach that necromancer/witch in the back despite enemies getting in your way. And so on. Using rotation/footwork solely for a Full Retreat seems a very narrow use case.

Going to a single-AOO model should also mean modding in new skills, like a perk to let you AOO more often. I think it'd be a fun mod to have around, but I wouldn't champion it as the vanilla setting.

I didn't say footwork or rotation are useless, but they're mostly useless if you're trying to completely flee the battlefield. Obviously if you're in a fight and frontliner takes a bad hit, you can swap him how for a different guy and save his life. My point is that fleeing the battle isn't even an option if things go bad unless you're willing to give the enemy sacrifices.

On a related note, there should be a lot more fights that involve one side realizing they're outmatched a few turns in, and engaging in a controlled withdrawl. The AI's desire to fight to the death over a couple mule carts doesn't make any fucking sense. So much of the game isn't actually fighting to win, it's minimizing casualties while you mop up insane retards that don't understand that they've already lost. The AI in this game is reasonably smart, they should have a basic idea of when a fight is unwinnable for them. But at the same time I can't always blame them, because fleeing 95% of the time in this game is suicide. Because of the opportunity attacks you might as well fight to the death.

 

[Tigranes]

Would the gameplay actually be improved if a lot more battles were about one side making a controlled retreat? Would it be fun to chase down a 12-enemy band that lost three units, and started retreating, and you were chasing them with the single-AOO rule? I'm not sure.

You're also describing a status quo that I don't recognise. When it comes to human enemies, kill over half of them, more or less, and you'll often see a cascading loss of morale and eventually a full shatter. I certainly don't find myself spending 30 or 40% of my battle time pounding away on a foregone conclusion. Especially if I'm willing to press "It's Over".

 

[Harthwain]

On a related note, there should be a lot more fights that involve one side realizing they're outmatched a few turns in, and engaging in a controlled withdrawl. The AI's desire to fight to the death over a couple mule carts doesn't make any fucking sense.

Everything in game is an excuse for combat to happen. It'd be pretty stupid of a combat game to have enemies who constantly avoid fighting you. Retreat happens when morale of one side is completely broken or when enemies see you have crushing numerical advantage (save for the undead, of course), which is a good compromise.

 

[Space Satan]

Well, this game called Battle Brothers for a reason

 

[Andronovo]

Everything in game is an excuse for combat to happen. It'd be pretty stupid of a combat game to have enemies who constantly avoid fighting you. Retreat happens when morale of one side is completely broken or when enemies see you have crushing numerical advantage (save for the undead, of course), which is a good compromise.

What I want Battle Brothers to be, is something more holistic, an overall mercenary company simulator. But the only thing it does particularly well is the combat when things are even. When you win there's just tedium, as opposed to being able to automatically run the enemy down like in say Mount & Blade, and when you lose there's no escape because opportunity attacks.

And the economics... fuck the economics. Why do krauts always make such grindy games. I've played vanilla World of Warcraft, and that was a less painful grind than this game is. The rewards for a hard won fight are generally small, but the consequences of the smallest mistakes are catastrophic. Why would anyone want to become a mercenary in game world when it pays this badly?

I like permadeath games, like roguelikes for example, but roguelikes tend to have good pacing and replayability that Battle Brothers lacks. At this point I feel like I'm only playing because I have a massive medieval warfare fetish. Also I'm addicted. Help.

 

[Horvatii]

Since this thread is currently awash in faggotry, I'll add mine too

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[tindrli]

i just realized after reading last 20 comments that i don't know how to play this game

 

[Horvatii]

i just realized after reading last 20 comments that i don't know how to play this game

no one knows, its an rng masturbator
you can fight an arena fight and lose 2 bros, reload, fight again exactly the same and get scratched once

exempli gratia, i do everything right, nomad with polemace steps in 2tile range, WHAM, 30% cth, my tanky dudebro is basically naked and dead in next turn... cant do shit about it

 

[Horvatii]

Also, who ever from the devs decided to make the 'Wait' command drop Initiative by 25% is an imbecilic moron. 100% sure they dont actually play their game...

Its not like the game had many tictacs to offer but now you cant even shuffle your dudes combat order without getting fucked. Cant get proper surrounds and step a tile when/where it matters without fugging your Initiative.

And its not like this bullshit applies to the AI, they dont care.

And its not like the game already has a trash UI where you can only see 5 next people and cant plan absolutely fucking nothing. Next turn? LOOOOL

And of course ingame you cant rebind Space to Endturn and F to Wait because... morons.

 

[34scell]

The correct method is to get a brigand seed and farm brigands until you have three tanks and everyone else has nimble.

 

[Alpharius]

Something's up with eastern gunners ammo. The AI have gone defensive so i decided to tank the gunners with shield bros until they run out of ammo. Well, my shield bros ran out of armor first.

They definitely fired more than 10 shots each and there are only 5 shots worth of ammo in one powder bag.

 

[Parabalus]

Any decent map seeds to recommend?

Something's up with eastern gunners ammo. The AI have gone defensive so i decided to tank the gunners with shield bros until they run out of ammo. Well, my shield bros ran out of armor first.

They definitely fired more than 10 shots each and there are only 5 shots worth of ammo in one powder bag.

AI just flat out ignores ammo, gobos and brigands will shoot indefinitely too.

 

[Teut Busnet]

Any decent map seeds to recommend?

Something's up with eastern gunners ammo. The AI have gone defensive so i decided to tank the gunners with shield bros until they run out of ammo. Well, my shield bros ran out of armor first.

They definitely fired more than 10 shots each and there are only 5 shots worth of ammo in one powder bag.

AI just flat out ignores ammo, gobos and brigands will shoot indefinitely too.

UALUQJKYMS
has Supergladiators, a nice southern trade loop and decent mobility.