Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Gay-Lussac]

We have to kill the dude who designed the AI for this game

He's going to create Skynet in the future, I guarantee it

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

We have to kill the dude who designed the AI for this game

He's going to create Skynet in the future, I guarantee it

That explains how even Californians will be able to beat the darn thing.

 

[Serus]

We have to kill the dude who designed the AI for this game

He's going to create Skynet in the future, I guarantee it

Yep, as far as AI in computer games goes this one is quite good. Last time i was in shock when an enemy with 2h axe surrounded by 3 bros and one other enemy waited, the other baddie moved away, and only then he used the round attack against all bros at once. Sometimes the AI can position its forces really well. Not always but it's much better than the semi random AI in other games.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The AI is nothing revolutionary in terms of concepts used. But it's the game that doesn't try to overreach. It's a tile-based, turn-based game, and that's much easier on the AI than a 3D realtime game would be.

https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012410/Improving-AI-Decision-Modeling-Through 

 

[Serus]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

 

[Serus]

The AI is nothing revolutionary in terms of concepts used. But it's the game that doesn't try to overreach. It's a tile-based, turn-based game, and that's much easier on the AI than a 3D realtime game would be.

https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012410/Improving-AI-Decision-Modeling-Through

Maybe an AI for a 3d realtime game is more difficult to program but that's beside the point. BB has better AI than the vast majority of other TURN BASED games. Doesn't mean that it's that great, just competent. Simply put, the majority of games suck when it comes to AI.

 

[Eastwood]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

I'm currently using a variation of this build for my handgunner: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253054670
Key points are Fearsome with high resolve for enemy mass routing with the gun(s), throwing weapons as a sidearm and a sling for long range combat (slings don't occupy an ammo slot and use throwing mastery). I think you could also fit Overwhelm into the mix, but I haven't tried that one yet. You can also swap out the handgun for a Crossbow for specific fights.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Maybe an AI for a 3d realtime game is more difficult to program but that's beside the point. BB has better AI than the vast majority of other TURN BASED games. Doesn't mean that it's that great, just competent. Simply put, the majority of games suck when it comes to AI.

They struck the right balance in design deicsions without getting too ambitious and asking things from the AI which it couldn't deliver. Not to diminish its quality of course. It's interesting that story-centric RPGs with set piece battles actually have an AI that perorms worse, like D:OS/2. Without being an AI programmer or anything near that, I guess it has to do with the complexity of pathfinding in the 3d environment and the much more complex rpg system and spells/abilities.

 

[Serus]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

I'm currently using a variation of this build for my handgunner: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253054670
Key points are Fearsome with high resolve for enemy mass routing with the gun(s), throwing weapons as a sidearm and a sling for long range combat (slings don't occupy an ammo slot and use throwing mastery). I think you could also fit Overwhelm into the mix, but I haven't tried that one yet. You can also swap out the handgun for a Crossbow for specific fights.

The sling part is interesting, didn't think of that. My main question is HOW to use handgonne. Firing a volley at enemy when they approach is obvious but what later, you just switch to throwing axes or javelins and forget the guns for the rest of combat?

 

[Tigranes]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

I'm currently using a variation of this build for my handgunner: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253054670
Key points are Fearsome with high resolve for enemy mass routing with the gun(s), throwing weapons as a sidearm and a sling for long range combat (slings don't occupy an ammo slot and use throwing mastery). I think you could also fit Overwhelm into the mix, but I haven't tried that one yet. You can also swap out the handgun for a Crossbow for specific fights.

The sling part is interesting, didn't think of that. My main question is HOW to use handgonne. Firing a volley at enemy when they approach is obvious but what later, you just switch to throwing axes or javelins and forget the guns for the rest of combat?

Sometimes you can continue to gun from the back line all the way throughout the fight - this can be useful, say, in Noble War battles where it's their backline polearmers that can devastate you and it's hard to get to them quickly with armoured dudes in front. That said, I've tended to use handgonners a bit like crossbowmen, with quick hands switch to their own polearms as needed.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

Fearsome is obviously the way to go, you just stay behind the front line, just like a pikeman.
Obviously, you can't hit 6 targets during the whole fight.
I find it way more useful with a small party, or perhaps it you have a lot of shieldbros.
If you have a legion of 2H bros, on the other hand, they'll have one shot to fire and then, it's over.

About overwhelm, i don't think it works, on turn one, it'll be useless and on turn 2, depending on your party, the fight is over.
Thinking about it, a fast gunner with overwhelm + fearsome could be useful against lindwurms, orcs and noble armies.
Not chosen because if you have enough targets on close combat to make it useful, you're probably fucked.

As for switching weapons, sure, the obvious way is to give him a crossbow for some fights where the gun would be useless and i don't use throwing weapons, never found a good named one so that's probably why.

Sometimes you can continue to gun from the back line all the way throughout the fight - this can be useful, say, in Noble War battles where it's their backline polearmers that can devastate you and it's hard to get to them quickly with armoured dudes in front. That said, I've tended to use handgonners a bit like crossbowmen, with quick hands switch to their own polearms as needed.

Very good archers or crossbowmen annihilate pikemen, this and a very good fencer (front-line and southern position, on turn 2 with lunge, you can hit (OS) one or two already...

 

[Parabalus]

Anyone can share his opinion on the hand cannon weapon? Shooting once at the start of battle is nice, especially against unarmored opponents. After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once so what's the point? Maybe i miss something How to make those guns viable? What build one should use it and how to position them?

Fearsome is obviously the way to go, you just stay behind the front line, just like a pikeman.
Obviously, you can't hit 6 targets during the whole fight.
I find it way more useful with a small party, or perhaps it you have a lot of shieldbros.
If you have a legion of 2H bros, on the other hand, they'll have one shot to fire and then, it's over.

About overwhelm, i don't think it works, on turn one, it'll be useless and on turn 2, depending on your party, the fight is over.
Thinking about it, a fast gunner with overwhelm + fearsome could be useful against lindwurms, orcs and noble armies.
Not chosen because if you have enough targets on close combat to make it useful, you're probably fucked.

As for switching weapons, sure, the obvious way is to give him a crossbow for some fights where the gun would be useless and i don't use throwing weapons, never found a good named one so that's probably why.

Sometimes you can continue to gun from the back line all the way throughout the fight - this can be useful, say, in Noble War battles where it's their backline polearmers that can devastate you and it's hard to get to them quickly with armoured dudes in front. That said, I've tended to use handgonners a bit like crossbowmen, with quick hands switch to their own polearms as needed.

Very good archers or crossbowmen annihilate pikemen, this and a very good fencer (front-line and southern position, on turn 2 with lunge, you can hit (OS) one or two already...

I used two fast gunner with overwhelm + fearsome, it worked pretty well. Throwing weapons in the bag.

In addition to what Canoli said they were extremely good vs humans and goblins, when firing into a blob he would usually immediately kill at least.
The range is deceptively big, since if you aim downhill the other 5 hexes can go uphill.

 

[Tigranes]

Fearsome is a must-have, yes, and I also take overwhelm. I would argue that archers/crossbowmen can't always snipe polearmers out fast enough, e.g. in a noble war where you need to take out a dozen of them and they're all packed tight (& your own allies get in the way). But then, apparently our experiences are very different, because I don't understand how you'd always be in a position where the big/difficult battles are 'over' by turn 2.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Fearsome is a must-have, yes, and I also take overwhelm. I would argue that archers/crossbowmen can't always snipe polearmers out fast enough, e.g. in a noble war where you need to take out a dozen of them and they're all packed tight (& your own allies get in the way). But then, apparently our experiences are very different, because I don't understand how you'd always be in a position where the big/difficult battles are 'over' by turn 2.

Easy battles go this way and nobles ones too (except it could be turn 3 for tougher ones but some of them will rally and some keep on fighting but it doesn't really matter) once you have your all stars team lvl 11+ and some named weapons.
By over, i mean you hit them so hard they can't recover but i play only high damage bros and by turn two, the morale loss the enemy took is as much crippling as the body count.
Seems like recent patches made the morale loss way slower so it barely works on orcs.

Of course, it's way harder against undead, orc warriors, schrats, lindwurms and the likes...

 

[Tigranes]

I see. "Once you have your all stars team lvl 11+ and some named weapons" is late game, at which point you're mopping the floor with eveything for fun and only playing for the big set piece finales like the Kraken. What you do is up to you, of course, but I'm usually thinking about the bulk of the game when I talk about tactics, not when I've got my Perfect Team of World Destroyers.

The point being that for large chunks of the game, in quite a few different circumstances, your Handgonner is able to fire several rounds over several turns if you wish - and Fearsome + Overwhelm is very good there.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Way before you get your dream team, when you get 2/3 very good bros, one archer, one 2H and if you're lucky one fencer (you got to find the right man for the job), most fights are won by turn 2 even if they drag for a couple of more turns.

Direwolves, for example, either you crippled them enough or they'll rip you to shreds.
Bandits, Thralls, Reavers, they're canon fodder.
Young orcs and berserkers (archers are very good against berserkers)
Hexens, either you have very good archers and can take them or most of them down fast or it's going to be long and painful.

Still, overwhelm and fearsome are the keys to this, never said otherwise.
Overwhelm works when fearsome doesn't on tough opponents like Unholds, Chosen, Orc Warriors and champions, Schrats, White wolves, Skin ghouls, Orc Warlords.

So, if you pick your targets well and get the tactical advantage; higher ground or good positions; the fight is over before it even begun.
Of course, i'm not talking about the RNG fest before day 50, one just has to suffer through it.

 

[Reinhardt]

After that, there is rarely an occasion to attack several enemies at once

You attack several enemies all the time later in game.

 

[vazha]

That's why warscythe and the other southern polearm is a must.
Get high initiative & fearsome & overwhelm wildmen in the back ranks
Arm them with warscythes
Reap
???
PROFIT

 

[Serus]

Ok, i played some of the beginner game and i think i get the "new" Battle Brothers. Didn't encounter the schrats or whatever they are called. I think i'm ready for what i played years ago, veteran/ironman. A few thoughts and questions:
- I tried handgonnes and they begin to grow on me. Do nomads ever use handgonnes? Not the city troops but the random ones you kill. They are very costly early game. Also they appear rarely for sale.
- Archers, as some people have been saying are not as great as they used to be. Fortunately one additional perk and some throwing weapons and they are fixed. They are still nice to snipe something from afar.
- I didn't like the "zero stamina" build idea. I tested one, I guess it's on if you have a recruit with very low stamina and good melee skill but even with low starting stamina you should be able to fix it and go nimble.
- Is bounty hunter (retinue) useless? Doesn't seem to do much.
- I find a swordmaster with max (77) melee attack with two stars. And a drunkard (+10% damage). Unfortunately his other stats sucked even for a swordmaster. Still, made him a nice nimble duelist. With swords (a named one). The question, where to look for a named fencing sword?
That's it for now.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Unfortunately his other stats sucked even for a swordmaster. Still, made him a nice nimble duelist. With swords (a named one). The question, where to look for a named fencing sword?
That's it for now.

If he sucks, he's no fencer material.
Well, once you don't know what to do with your gold, caravan missions toward citadels with weaponsmith can generate some, not many opponents use fencing swords, let alone named ones.

Isn't bounty hunter +3% champions?
Well, you get what you sign for, some mods can increase the number to +8%.

Nomads use guns during holy wars, i've read, never went for a holy war against them, i've seen some canons/mortar though, nice addition.

No idea what you're talking about (low stamina), fatigue is important because the tough battles last long (orc warriors, lindwurms, chosen, tough undead, lots of unholds, ...) and that's when you'll regret having low fatigue bros, it could end abruptly...

 

[Serus]

It's not a build about low fatigue but the one about no reserve fatigue at all. Basically a build with only 15 usable fatigue. As i said, it's functional and probably not a bad idea to salvage a brother with abysmal fatigue but good melee stats. However it's not something i'd want on end game brother.

My sword master duelist rocks, with named high damage sword + drunkard + very high melee attack + duelist he consistently does tons of damage. Keeping him alive is helped by a -9 fatigue / 181 durability (without attachments) armour, lol.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Have they hinted at whether there's more DLC coming or if they've moved on to a new game?

After 300 hours in the past few weeks I'm definitely burned out now. Think I'll put it down for the foreseeable future.

Fun ride, though. Just recently managed to get to the late game (300 days +) on Iroman/Veteran and explore some of the legendary locations for the first time.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Just started playing Battle Brothers and I am having a blast. It was long ago since the last time I was playing until 6 am because I couldn't force myself to stop.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, it's very addictive. I am on Day 87 of a Veteran/Veteran/Hardcore run, the deepest I've gotten into BB yet. Lost a lot of dudes to get there (damn RNG), but my current squad is pretty good (at least for my noob level of game knowledge and skill). All dudes I've bought from level one as farmhands or millers or whatever, got one rat-catcher, and leveled up to where now most of them are levels 3-6 with decent metal armor and good weapons/shields. Starting to hold my own against orcs, but obviously this game can wreck you at any given point.

So far, I am going with a sword/board layout for everone up front, and crossbows in the back. With high defense skill and a shield, they do pretty well against most things, though up starting to come up against real heavy armored enemies now, so I am guessing I will have to explore alternate load-outs against those, as one handed weapons don't do much against such armor. Might start buying Greatswords or going with a non-conventional duelist build or something.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I have a representation of every weapon possible in my band. However, nearly everyone has a shield. We may be a ragtag group, but we are not stupid.