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Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
How do you find 250+ HP armor without buying it from the armorer? That shit is hella expensive and I can't get any drops better than chainmail.

I just encountered my first Orc warriors and it went okay, but I know a whole pack of them will probably be a bad day for my bros if we don't find stronger gear.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
762
How do you find 250+ HP armor without buying it from the armorer? That shit is hella expensive and I can't get any drops better than chainmail.

I just encountered my first Orc warriors and it went okay, but I know a whole pack of them will probably be a bad day for my bros if we don't find stronger gear.

Hedge knights(bandits). House knights(Nobles). Buy them in shops. Unique drops. Mercenaries.
I think on higher difficulties its somewhat easier to acquire them from bandit forces as they get Hedge knights pretty fast and pretty often. But most you just buy.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
How do you find 250+ HP armor without buying it from the armorer? That shit is hella expensive and I can't get any drops better than chainmail.

I just encountered my first Orc warriors and it went okay, but I know a whole pack of them will probably be a bad day for my bros if we don't find stronger gear.

Hedge knights(bandits). House knights(Nobles). Buy them in shops. Unique drops. Mercenaries.
I think on higher difficulties its somewhat easier to acquire them from bandit forces as they get Hedge knights pretty fast and pretty often. But most you just buy.

Yeah, I mostly bought my high-end armor, too... Esp. since I usually didn't bother with expensive background bros.

Trying to get good armor off house-troops seems dangerous though... Implying you don't have good armor yet and taking them on, eh. With all those crossbow retards and possible friendly house troops locking you into place and whatnot.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
762
As a person of great patience(also affected 'why buy when you can loot' syndrome) I get most of my armors from bandits.
Bandit leaders and Rogue Knights.
You really do not need that many heavy armors. Shieldbearers work well enough in medium one so you only need heavy for 2 handers shock troopers. And at some point you get enough rares to ditch normal ones so why even buy them?

Also I avoid to fight House Troops as I do not like pissing them over or making half of territory hostile. Well I could pick on some weak house but I do not like bullying weak people either.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
What are everyone's thoughts on weapons? Here are my impressions at this point:

One-handers
Spears: The militia spear is crucial for early game because of the Accuracy bonus. As your bros level up though spears start to fall behind. Spearwall has its uses and is good against dumber AI but will tire your guys out fast.
Maces: Solid all-around weapon. Tend to favor them for lighter armored foes like goblins or ghouls since the mace's armor damage is slightly lower. Stun is a nice secondary although I rarely use it.
Axes: Another solid choice, effective against all types of enemies. You could probably just stick with axes on your front line for the whole game and be fine. Destroy shield is kind of a meh secondary since you give your enemies a damage bonus once the shield is gone.
Picks: The best option for heavily armored enemies since they wreck armor fast. Raw damage is lower though so you wouldn't want to roll picks all the time.
Flails: Kind of the oddball of the lot but personally I love them. The ability to negate shields and bash the head directly gives a lot of flexibility. Like the mace, though, they are probably not ideal against really heavy armor.
Daggers: Haven't experimented with these much. Might be a solid choice with the dagger perk as it opens up a 3rd attack per turn.
Swords: Crappiest weapons overall since they suck against armor. Maybe could be good for guys with lots of melee defense + heater shields + Riposte.
Cleavers: I haven't messed with these much either. I think they are similar to swords, maybe a little better.

Two-handers
Pike: I love pikes. Accurate with big, consistent damage. I give them to my 3 archers plus 2 bros on the backline. Great at softening up enemies for the front line and also get plenty of kills themselves.
Billhooks: Also a solid choice for the backline. They do big time damage but I lean toward pikes based on the accuracy bonus. Plus I prefer the pike's secondary. It's more useful to be able to push enemies away than pull them in (although with proper positioning you should rarely need to do either).
Swords: TBD as I am not at this point yet
Axes: TBD
Hammers: TBD

Ranged:
Bows: My personal preference over the crossbow because once your accuracy gets up there you can take 2 effective shots per turn (sometimes 3 with the Berserk perk). Also better for knocking out enemy archers who are usually lightly armored.
Crossbows: Still not a bad option as they perform better against armor. I feel ranged generally isn't all that great against melee troops though, at least the stronger ones. Best use of bow/Xbow is to take away the enemy's ranged attack which can really wreak havoc on your line.

We'll see how things progress but I've had good results so far. Day 60, $30k bank, haven't lost a bro in forever. I cycle between mace/axe/pick on the front line based on enemy type with 2-3 flails mixed in.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Early game - whatever I happen upon that's better than whatever else I happened upon.
Mid to late game - axes and swords, first arming swords, eventually as I train up my bros, two-handers of either type. Most versatile all-rounders. Poleaxes (or whatever they're called) are better than pikes because of that strip shield feature, plus they work with the axe specialisation which makes my bros more versatile (an axe specialist kicks arse both in the frontline and the second row). The two-handed axe's specials kind of stink though because it's really rare to be able to do that whirlwind thing safely except very late in the game, whereas the two-handed sword's two-tile line and three-tile arc are super versatile.

Hammers are great can-openers but the ability to strip shields is more important, so I don't bother with them even when facing ancient legionaries. I have daggers as secondaries for everyone anyway.

No opinion on bows vs crossbows, both are good.

Also: javelins and thrown axes + quick hands perk rule, once you have decent ranged attack. Won't leave home without them.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Interesting that you mention throwing weapons. I had thought about giving them to my ranged guys since I noticed melee enemies like to pause 1 or 2 tiles away from the front line on their approach. Perfect range for a javelin/throwing axe barrage and I put Quick Hands on my ranged guys anyway so they can transition to melee without losing a turn.

I hadn't even thought about using long axes on the back line. Might switch over to those for the 2 melee bros I keep back there since damage wise they probably outperform the pikes.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
762
One hand
>Spears: early they are main line and even late they are useful, they are low cost, high accuracy weapon with zone denial, that work greet with Overwhelm. unique spears can be really nice
>Swords: arming swords are pretty good and can be easily looted in good amount from bandits, good dmg, accuracy low cost, mid game mainline is sword and board
>Axes: usually do not bother early because low tier axes have low shield crushing power and no accuracy, pretty solid weapon - overall it do well against all enemies but not really great
>Flails: mostly I do not bother, they can be easily looted and used to farm early bandit armor or used against no helmets orc warriors but they work good only with specialization or high accuracy character, RNG dmg and they are mediocre at best, not big fan
>Cleavers: mostly ignore them, they are annoying to fight against but not really great, orc named weapon have best damage per attack so if you want high damage singel target duelist this is your choice, high cost to use as they are heavy
>Daggers: great sidearm, anyone carry one rondel if I can afford them, good to farm armors and great work with specialization and overwhelm as you can use 3 attacks with low costs, but overall do not recommended making a dagger assassin as they do not work well against undead
>Picks: antiarmor weapon, that's all, not big fan as they usually extra fast drain fatigue
>Maces: solid weapon, have stun and tire enemy, good with Overwhelm as enemy tire faster than you when you hit him with mace, good secondary weapon(for stun), rather support weapon but can be useful
Two hand
>Swords: easily best weapon in the game thanks to solid dmg, good accuracy and AoE attacks, with good perks and base stats 2 hand swordsmen are real killing machines
>Axes: single target weapon, not big fan even if they work great, amazing damage but much less utility and flexibility than swords, much worse survival rate
>Cleavers: meh do not use
>Hammers: great weapon, even if costly to use, need specialist to really shine, as it stagger enemy it work well with Overwhelm and synergy well with Overwhelm based company, good in crushing armor or controlling enemy access
Polearms
>Pikes - good for rookies as it have accuracy bonus but overall its not to good
>Billhook - solid antiarmor weapon
>Long Axe - decent overall weapon
>Scythe - ugly but has AoE, pretty devastating in right hands
Ranged
>Bows: best range, best rate of fire, overall designated marksman weapon, good for sniping on long range or close combat support(Overwhelm is another bonus)
>Xbows: less range, less rate of fire, allow wearing better helmets or armors , have accuracy bonus and it better pierce armor, they are better early and for hybrids characters as you do not need that high Ranged Attack to make them effective, still some rare xbows can be real monsters
>Thrown weapons: not big fan of this, I see working specialist and universal(massed) but do not find them appealing(that was before recent reset equipment changes but still), can be useful in weakened enemy but you need to field them in big numbers, great support(for shieldmen) for your archer company

In short:
>Beginning: Spears(and Shields),Maces
>Early: Spears, Swords, Maces, Pikes, Xbows
>Mid: Spears, Swords, Maces, variety of polearms, xbows/bows,2 handed swords
>Late: Spears, swords, 2 handed swords and 2 handed hammers, bows
Occasionally field 1 handed hammers if needed. And daggers or maces for all. Also NETS
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Day 75 and the Undead endgame just kicked off. I had chosen random so was curious to see what would hit, and when.

First job was a $5k noble house contract that had me wipe out two undead bases. Each had 20+ wiederganger, 3 or 4 geist, and a couple Fallen Heroes. The bros were busted up and exhausted by the end but everybody made it through alive and well.

Geist morale attacks are the biggest challenge of undead so far. I have a sergeant with 90 resolve + battle standard and still have a couple guys shitting their pants every turn. Going to go ahead and put Fortified Mind on everyone at level up so hopefully that will help.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
As a person of great patience(also affected 'why buy when you can loot' syndrome) I get most of my armors from bandits.
Bandit leaders and Rogue Knights.
You really do not need that many heavy armors. Shieldbearers work well enough in medium one so you only need heavy for 2 handers shock troopers. And at some point you get enough rares to ditch normal ones so why even buy them?

Also I avoid to fight House Troops as I do not like pissing them over or making half of territory hostile. Well I could pick on some weak house but I do not like bullying weak people either.

I don't usually bother with shield guys in the frontline apart from early game or whenever a brother is still inexperienced. So heavy armor and 2h weapon is what my entire frontline generally looks like.
It doesn't take particularly long to get enough 240 pt armors, I have everybody equipped with them before I get uniques usually (with maybe the occasional exception).

Have you ever had a single house dominate all the settlements? How does the game handle house wars then? Does that crisis just not happen anymore?
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
Day 75 and the Undead endgame just kicked off. I had chosen random so was curious to see what would hit, and when.

First job was a $5k noble house contract that had me wipe out two undead bases. Each had 20+ wiederganger, 3 or 4 geist, and a couple Fallen Heroes. The bros were busted up and exhausted by the end but everybody made it through alive and well.

Geist morale attacks are the biggest challenge of undead so far. I have a sergeant with 90 resolve + battle standard and still have a couple guys shitting their pants every turn. Going to go ahead and put Fortified Mind on everyone at level up so hopefully that will help.

They changed the geist mechanics plus the rally effect a bunch of times iircs, used to be that they were trivial back when you could rally people's morale up at all times (though your sergeant was basically stationary until all ghosts were dead). Then they changed rally to only work for, well, rallying fleeing troops. And then they changed ghosts to trigger, I think, multiple checks at once or something idk.

Every time the playerbase found some way to play the game well, it got nerfed. Bandits too easy (eventually)? Well, give them lots of marksmen with high initiative. Bags and belts is really useful for letting you carry different kinds of weapons with no added fatigue penalty? Nerf it so that it's useless now (unless you use a very specialized build with extra throwing weapons or nets or what). I get why they do it, but it also kind of makes the game feel more tedious and less fun now than in the pre-realease versions imo.
You can still beat it/play it well pretty easily if you know how and get a bit lucky with RNG, but it feels over-tuned or something. And those annoying fucking goblins running away all the damn time...
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
2h polearms are kind of lame atm imo, other than undead warscythe.
Pike should have area denial/auto-pushback like spear instead of single-target pushback imo. You could use it to replace spear+shield on mid to lategame frontliners instead of giving everybody 2h or whatever, or keep them in the backline with 2 tile denial range (but maybe directional, like only front tiles or something) and have shorter weapons in the frontline. Might need rebalancing of the game though, so not gonna happen.
Billhook should be able to restrict target movement+actions or something by hooking onto an arm, or push them over into a staggered, more vulnerable state (expose poorly armored areas). Or just get more damage or something.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
And why are there no pollaxes. Could use those instead of the silly 2h hammers.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
silly 2h hammers.
:baka:

Warhammers are MAJESTIC AND BEAUTIFUL
Those aren't really warhammers though. They look oddly out of place compared to the other weapons imo. Although they do have some designs that aren't quite as mallet-like and fit a bit better.

I guess you really love having your guys cosplay as sigmarites, eh? ;)


Besides, pollaxes are the real 2h warhammers anyway.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Necrosavants do not play around. I just fought several battles in a row to defend a siege and would've likely lost 3 or 4 bros had the AI played smarter. Thank god for the meatshields brave militia men who sacrificed their lives to protect their families and homes.

Do you guys know if the AI is nerfed on Beginner difficulty?
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
Necrosavants do not play around. I just fought several battles in a row to defend a siege and would've likely lost 3 or 4 bros had the AI played smarter. Thank god for the meatshields brave militia men who sacrificed their lives to protect their families and homes.

Do you guys know if the AI is nerfed on Beginner difficulty?
Never noticed A.I. differences between difficulty modes, but who knows. The only difference in combat difficulty that I've seen is that you get larger parties right from the start on higher difficulties, and battles are larger in general... And you can find higher tier foes sooner relative to whatever stats of yours the game scales your encounters off.

Rather, the A.I. seems to work with a fairly narrow set of conditions, like always attacking the guy with the least defense ratiing against their respective attack (melee/ranged) in range etc. Which is why they can be so very focused on a specific bro with their ranged units or polarm guys (undead).
Those militiamen may have been the closest or weakest or whatever targets or fulfilled the a.i. conditions in some other way instead of your own guys, but I do remember necrosavants (and before them the vampire guys) fucking up a bunch, teleporting to you and right back instead of attacking and whatnot. Other A.I. dudes also sometimes move poorly or hop back and forth. Maybe randomized to give you more of a chance? Or just a genuine bug/oversight.
 

AMG

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
374
They did? Hot damn. Is it back to it's old self or just a partial restoration?
Back to no fatigue penalty. Swiss knife bros and machinegun xbows are back. Although arguably the latter never left.

Although now that he only way to reduce fatigue build up is mastery and recover, using multiple weapons is not as good as it once was.
 
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Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
762
Machine gun xbows do not work as any xbow in your pockets is unloaded one. So there is no real reason to carry more than one.
Bags&Belts were great in earlier builds that still have 3 semi separate skill trees - as if you decide to invest in Utility tree three were only 3 good perks - the Holy Trinity of Utility. It became less attractive when they switched to free for all and to be honest nerf was not really needed at that point as there as plenty of better choices especially as they fix durability issue so you do not need carry 2 spare swords for longer fights. Yeah I still remember when my lone sword-master get eaten by 5 werewolves because his 2 swords break and he could not fight last werewolf with his fists.

Do you guys know if the AI is nerfed on Beginner difficulty?

No. They get boost to number, tiers and max party limit. Maybe some hidden boost to RNG but who knows at this point.

And why are there no pollaxes. Could use those instead of the silly 2h hammers.

Yeah. Fully agree on that. They look out of place.

Every time the playerbase found some way to play the game well, it got nerfed. Bandits too easy (eventually)? Well, give them lots of marksmen with high initiative. Bags and belts is really useful for letting you carry different kinds of weapons with no added fatigue penalty? Nerf it so that it's useless now (unless you use a very specialized build with extra throwing weapons or nets or what). I get why they do it, but it also kind of makes the game feel more tedious and less fun now than in the pre-realease versions imo.
You can still beat it/play it well pretty easily if you know how and get a bit lucky with RNG, but it feels over-tuned or something. And those annoying fucking goblins running away all the damn time...

Earlier builds were more fun. Troops level faster and with some builds you could really increase you power level in visible way. Its really a shame. They also nerfed few things other than direct combat like Fatigue recovery mechanics that really slow down fights.
Simply when all fights are hard and there is plenty of them and they really do not effect anything - its just tiresome.
 

AMG

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
374
Machine gun xbows do not work as any xbow in your pockets is unloaded one.
Ah shit, you're right. Totally forgot about that change, since archers are better anyway. I guess it's another example of what Ezeekiel was talking about :D.
I think Bag and Belts plus Quick Hands is still a decent setup if you're going for a 1 crisis game. If you play longer, so that it starts to dump on you swarms of enemies, most of the utility perks give way to the raw power ones.

Also said setup is a good alternative way of building 2H troops, if don't want to wait until you can afford sellswords or get bajillion veterancy levels. Reach Advantange kinda blows on a 20 something mdef merc, so switching to an orc shield every other turn is actually better in my experience.
 
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Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Day 100 and the band just took our first losses since near the beginning of the game. Three battles to break a siege against the Ancient Legion and two level 8 bros didn't make it.

I think I underestimated the Legion. Individually they are not overwhelming but they use solid shieldwall tactics and 2H guys hit hard. Add in the fact that they never get tired or scared and suddenly you can find yourself in trouble.

Sucks but that is one thing that is great about the game. You think you are safe and in control, get a little complacent, then you get bit.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
And a couple random battles later the undead scourge is defeated? Great game but gotta say I am a disappointed by that ending. With the exception of the siege missions the whole "crisis" was just business as usual.

Also I see what you guys are saying by the slow leveling. My top guy who fought in 65 battles and had nearly 100 kills only reached level 9. Granted this was on Beginner and I had a rotation going with a couple extra guys, but still.

Are the other end game scenarios better or just lackluster across the board?
 

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