Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Sarissofoi]

Similar state.
You can clearly see why some folks gets angry and why some take it as a personal insult when somebody try to tell them that game is finished and feature complete. I mean it can be even technically true but you can see by yourself how this features are implemented and how 'finished' they feel.
A real shame . A even bigger shame that files are locked and you will not see any new content anymore(feel free to prove me wrong, I will gladly admit that I am on wrong side if you do).
Heck even that little exploit that let you field more troops on the battlefield get patched(which is a shame as it let you play differently).
I had urge to start new campaign again but now all I feel is growing despair. Damn.

 

[Zanzoken]

Yeah it's not a huge deal to me, but still a letdown.

I absolutely love the freeform nature of this game (along with its cousins Mount & Blade and Sid Meier's Pirates). I think the challenge of this design -- which hasn't really been solved yet -- is how to systemically generate campaigns that feel like more than just a series of random, unrelated events.

It's fitting in the beginning to just be traveling around doing odd jobs, but an endgame crisis needs higher stakes. Undead are supposedly trying to burn the world to the ground, but it never really felt like they were much of a threat, or that mankind was doing much to combat them.

I am still enjoying the game though, so I think I will start a new campaign and try the war between houses crisis.

 

[Reinhardt]

Undead are supposedly trying to burn the world to the ground, but it never really felt like they were much of a threat, or that mankind was doing much to combat them.

In my campaigns greenskins were bigger threat. They burn cities much better.

 

[Haba]

Undeads are killing cities just the same, but it seems that greenskins spread sites at faster rate.

Has anyone actually managed to get some kind of a "game over, the world just ended" scene? Is it possible to lose due to all of the cities getting wiped out?

 

[Jimmious]

Ι would say no but since I never had remotely the patience to try that...I will summon Sarissofoi who I imagine did it :p

 

[Sarissofoi]

Undeads are killing cities just the same, but it seems that greenskins spread sites at faster rate.

Has anyone actually managed to get some kind of a "game over, the world just ended" scene? Is it possible to lose due to all of the cities getting wiped out?

Hm. I do not believe that there is special ending. You will just run off people and get standard one. Probably you could ever retire on normal conditions even if all settlements get destroyed. There is no special pictures in the files that I can connect with that but of course I could be wrong but I do not really believe that they would waste time and effort on something that nobody would really see. As most(and by most I mean 99,995%) people would not play that long to lose even half settlements. But feel free to prove me wrong.
Also its look that Greenskins fare better in auto resolve and no wonder.

Ι would say no but since I never had remotely the patience to try that...I will summon Sarissofoi who I imagine did it :p

I arrive as requested. That is interesting thought. Maybe I would try it in future. But I am just not in the mood to play to lose.

Yeah it's not a huge deal to me, but still a letdown.

The things that really lower my enjoyment from this game is lackluster global map mechanics(that I spoke before about many times so I will not bother this time unless somebody ask about it) and lack of persistent or memorable characters(or even mechanics that would allow random one gain persistence). Or very limited(if any) interactions with them.
I will ask you a questions: Tell me guys do you meet any memorable character(ally or enemy) in the game? Can you name from your memory one enemy minifaction or noble house? Or leaders than lead them?
Yes noble Houses have different banners and backstories and enemies carry different banners but is that really affect anything in your gameplay? Did you have some memorable moments with them?
Its not like in SM Pirates where you have some nemesis or pirate hunters/rivals or Mount and Blade when your allies and rivals arise organically from gameplay - BB lack any of it.
There is no famed Bandits or Orc Chieftains to hunt. They are all randomly generated for fight only and are not even persistent - so if you attack the same party with the same bandit elader he would probably not only change his equipment but even face and name(and if not that is just by pure chance).
There is no named allies or rivals that you can make friends - yeah look at laugh at this sorry excuse of FULL FEATURE in case of rival mercenary companies. Its not like in M&B when you could piss some noble(or king) that he would specifically ride half map just to burn your village and kick your dog.
There is no difference in noble houses or enemy sub factions. They are all cut from the same cloth. Its not like different houses or bands have different unit composition or special units or even favorite weapon. You do not meet Bloody Axes - orc clan that is armed only in axes, or Wild Mushrooms that field large amounts of berserkers.
Even behavior is the same - in M&B you could always count on Swadia overextending thanks to Harlus love for feast and mindless aggression. Or count that Ragnar will hoard all settlements for himself. Here I can not even remember name of the house - not that even matter as it looks that contracts are the same.
And its even lack some persistent allies. I mean there are some special backgrounds - why do not make them special named(LEGENDARY) characters that could be saved/recruited under special conditions? Make that Crusade stay with you if you succeed in some special mission when undead strike.
But no.
There is more - like very limited feedback on map situation, or lack interactions with allied or neutral parties on map. It would add character if you could ask allied troops what they are doing(and neutral one would tell you to get lost) or ask traders where they going and trade a little. Or even hear peasants to thank you when you save their worthless asses from bandits.
I could probably write longer but hell its just make me sad and empty.
I am going to get little drunk right now.

Spoiler

Still its nice to talk about this game. Do not leave me alone here folks

Cheers.

 

[Krivol]

Was stamina changed? I used to have all guys a bit more that 65 stamina (so if someone has very high stamina can get very heavy armour) but now it's not enough to keep spearwall for 3 turns and fight normally after that. My 2h swordmaster with 69(ish) stamina can swing or slash 2 times and is almost useless... Annoying.

Also I found great companion - Wulfgar the Legend, with 80 base meele, old swordmaster, but this dick is leveling slower that character in free-to-play korean MMO... Maybe it's just me...

 

[Sarissofoi]

There were some changes to fatigue mechanic.
First we lost all old perks. Like Weaponmaster.
Secondly rally the troops do not recover fatigue anymore.
And at last enemy attacks that miss also add fatigue to target which make riposte swordsman useless and wolves or goblin riders extra dangerous as they suppress you easily by sheer amount of attacks.
Overall there is less ways to recover fatigue and attacks cost more(without no specializations), fatigue is expanded faster and enemy field more troops. There is no perks that help shieldbeares in case of fatigue and Recovery is not that effective on low fatigue characters. Plus slow leveling. Yeah its pain in the ass.

 

[Reinhardt]

Tell me guys do you meet any memorable character(ally or enemy) in the game?

Hoggart.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I see were Sarissofoi is coming from. It's a bit sad that the tutorial guy is the most / only memorable guy in the game.

 

[Zombra]

Early game I do feel like Fatigue is a huge issue. I assumed that it was because my guys were crap low level. They can hold their shield up for one or two turns and then it's basic attacks and hope for the best.

 

[Jimmious]

I see were Sarissofoi is coming from. It's a bit sad that the tutorial guy is the most / only memorable guy in the game.

BB was never about specific characters though. They are expendable. It has a lot of memorable moments, which was it focus any way.
It's like asking if in X-COM there are memorable characters. Not really, except for your troops that you create stories with

 

[SmartCheetah]

Altough Sarissofoi is Celerity of Battle Brothers, he's a cool dude and got many points right.
Overhype, it's all your fault.

 

[C.H.A.R.L.I.E]

Sarissofoi can you recommend any good map seeds?

 

[Sarissofoi]

I see were Sarissofoi is coming from. It's a bit sad that the tutorial guy is the most / only memorable guy in the game.

BB was never about specific characters though. They are expendable. It has a lot of memorable moments though, which was it focus any way.
It's like asking if in X-COM there are memorable characters. Not really, except for your troops that you create stories with

I gonna slap you Jim. You are fine guy but I swear I gonna slap you if you do not stop spitting bullshit.
Why you even compare these two? They have little in common other than tactical combat.
If you want compare BB you would be better comparing it to Icewind Dale than to XCOM(old or new). But lets do this anyway.
BB simply lack mechanics that allow expendable tactics - its fine early when you have company on 1-3 level and face 10 raiders but it fall short later(unless you play on Beginner). Leveling take to long, there is no high than 5 level recruits available(and they cost a lot), and there is little option for getting specific recruits to fill specific role(like you need check and by that I mean hire and fire - thanks MMO like gold sink similar to ingame loot boxes really - dozen recruits to get one good enough to be worthy long time training).
But lets start.
In old XCom you have whole industrial-military complex and could hire replacements by dozens(or hundreds) troops to get that few that you want and even then you could use the rest as scouts, meat shield, cannon fooder, garrisons on radar stations or ammo mules. You could even pack below average guys arm them in laser guns and explosives and hope that they kill enemy and win mission with at last one man standing(and you still earn a profit). It was perfectly viable tactic. You could swarm enemy with cheap expendable soldiers and still win if you use right tools and tactics. You could lose whole veteran teams and still succeed with fresh rookies. You know BB and you should know that its not the way BB is played(other than survive to 50 day when not running from anyone quick brutal ironman games). You can not really compare these two games seriously.
The new XCom on other hand outside early phase is similar to BB and that mean losing veteran teams or elite troops will hurt you a lot. There is no really place for throwing expendable troops because sending expendables is throwing away XP and reducing chance to come back with no losses or succeeding at all.

Its not like in BB you have a stronghold or mobile camp(the guys that are making Iron Oath have good idea about it) or a ship(like in SM Pirates). Its not like you can keep multiple teams ready to do specific jobs or you can send them to different missions and rotate troops. You can not even put your wounded veterans in hospital or inn or lend them as guards or trainers so they can earn some cash when not taking space in your rooster. Heck you can not even store them somewhere safe(still paying them full price).
Damn you Jim, you making me angry for no reason.

And about memorable soldiers. UFO(first one) offer plenty occasions for situation that could make ones. Mostly because you could actually lose plenty of soldiers and still succeed. And that single soldier could actually pull some extremely amazing things. I had plenty of heroic newbies that do incredible stuff in XCom. Plenty of last man standing, or guy who saved captain Elite, or guy who take ten shoots ans kill muton using pistol, or gal who snipe enemy(in right moment) with 44 accuracy. In BB its like oh this beggar still alive? Doesn't matter as soon I gonna fire him so I can make place for a Sellsword. Or I lose two soldiers? Well time to repeat mission or enjoy another 5 hour grind.

Sarissofoi can you recommend any good map seeds?

Old one are useless(after new update).
I recently roll some and find one that is really good.
6d1229
2 large factions 1 small between
north faction is pretty well fortified(1town, 2castles, 2keeps, 2 villages), they have 2 ports, plenty of woods
middle have 1 castle, 2 villages, one port
south faction have 1 city and one castle but 5 villages(2 with salt, 2 with amber, 1 with dye), 2 ports, plenty of plains and steppes
North one should defend themselves pretty well, south is were you make money.
Ports help to move quickly between two.
I plan to play it on highstartfunds/beginnereconomy/veterancombat/ironman/permanentdestruction so I can relax and do not worry about min/maxing(screw expert and level scaling). Wil put it on YT - hopefully it gonna be chill game and I will be keeping my cool.

 

[Jimmious]

You write way too many things for 1 in the morning but I didn't compare the tactical or strategical complexity of X-COM with BB, I just said that they are both games that don't require memorable characters. Like any game of their type.
And I don't think that's debatable to be honest

 

[Sarissofoi]

I am drunk and happy to talk about one of my fav game. No regrets.
Anyway old UFO simply offer more chances for heroic situations to arise and thanks to that for specific soldiers being more memorable as stats being less important.
New UFO offer more characterization options that you can use to make your own characters - thanks to clothes, voice acting and other stuff. They can have quite personality - even if you get random ones. They are not on the point of JA characters but still strong.
In BB the balance is not quite right. On one hand troops are not expendable enough and taking losses is to punishable to player so it discourage player from taking risks and making heroic situation to appear on the other hand there is not enough character to single troopers - they lack banter or talk(yeah even text one) and feel bland.

Sure I can get attached to some of my soldiers but they are hardly memorable in long run as I train them in similar way.

Spoiler

Also do not trust poster directly below me - he work for Germans!

 

[Jimmious]

Agreed there is a "balancing" problem when trying to replenish troops which makes losses kinda insufferable late game... But on the other hand I always have 3-4 dudes that I kinda "connect" with on each run... But I guess I'm kinda larping always to a point - I do that with all squad tactical games to a point :p

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Very good point. I didn’t bother with BB very much but I did feel it punishes you excessively for losing men.

Normally I‘m quite the save scummer, but in the old X-Com I mostly stick with the mission outcome. Loosing a good team of men is quite a setback and has impact on your strategic planning but at the same time the game allows you to recover from that failure. In BB it’s just grind grind grind.

 

[Zanzoken]

Sarissofoi, can't really disagree with any of your points. I still like the game though.

Gonna try out that seed right now for my new campaign.

 

[Sarissofoi]

Sarissofoi, can't really disagree with any of your points. I still like the game though.

Gonna try out that seed right now for my new campaign.

Man, do you think that if I do not like the game I would still be here? I will do what most people did - just move over.
I do not even dislike devs(to much). I bet they dislike me more than I dislike them if they notice my existence at all.
I will tell in secret:

Spoiler

I really like the game. I think that its pretty good(especially in such niche genre and in current times). I am just disappointed how its end. And in the end its decent game, good but simply not good enough to SATISFY MY HUNGER. Also I took it personal - I simply cannot stand all that bullshiting that happen soon after release(and some before it). Even my jokes about Germans are just a friendly banter(still I bet Germans treat it seriously - but that its no wonder, they are Germans after all and Germans and humor are not a things that work well). But do not tell anyone as I must uphold my 'almost a Celerity' status. Cheers.

Just do not tell this anyone. You know public image and stuff.

 

[sser]

Anyway old UFO simply offer more chances for heroic situations to arise and thanks to that for specific soldiers being more memorable as stats being less important.

Except the part where you have to fire everyone with low PSI, of course.

 

[Sarissofoi]

Anyway old UFO simply offer more chances for heroic situations to arise and thanks to that for specific soldiers being more memorable as stats being less important.

Except the part where you have to fire everyone with low PSI, of course.

Except the part that you decide to not use PSI at all. Because you know - using PSI and not killing all aliens in hand to hand combat would be you know easy mode. Totally lame and casual.
Why use PSI when you can throw all this expendable black or German soldiers that RNG grant you on them?
Its like you hate fun.

Also God bless for OpenXCom and mods. Tully a blessing.

 

[sser]

Anyway old UFO simply offer more chances for heroic situations to arise and thanks to that for specific soldiers being more memorable as stats being less important.

Except the part where you have to fire everyone with low PSI, of course.

Except the part that you decide to not use PSI at all. Because you know - using PSI and not killing all aliens in hand to hand combat would be you know easy mode. Totally lame and casual.
Why use PSI when you can throw all this expendable black or German soldiers that RNG grant you on them?
Its like you hate fun.

Also God bless for OpenXCom and mods. Tully a blessing.

It's not using PSI so much as having PSI used against you. Badass Rambo McTerminator isn't so cool when he turns his sweet accuracy and thirst for violence against his own bros. Particularly if they haven't even left the ramp yet.

 

[Sarissofoi]

You can always use PSI-line of sight option from OpenXCom. Or shove your former elites in some outpost with tanks and dogs.
Or train them.
But fair enough.
I still used thrown away for smaller missions or as plasma screens. Its not like all enemy UFO had PSI capable soldiers.