Torment Beamdog's Planescape: Torment Enhanced Edition

[Vicar]

Are you so self-righteous that you think you should be the judge of the prices of different goods and services in the market?

Who SHOULD be the judge, though? If morons weren't eager to throw away their money on hack jobs then the prices would adjust or maybe even the quality of the work would increase.
Sorry, but that's capitalism, where prices adjust for demand not where somebody decides a price and everyone has to accept it.

What the hell are you talking about?
If you think the EE is a hack job and not worth the current price, feel free to not buy it. That doesn't mean that those who disagree with you and buy it are morons. And obviously if PST:EE doesn't sell well at the current price they will put it on discount soon. That's adjusting for demand. In fact, digital stores like steam sort of facilitates such adjustments by taking away menu cost.

 

[Sykar]

Not nearly as hard as planning, designing, writing, etc. an entire game from scratch.

Nobody is claiming Beamdog did more work than BIS, where did you even get that?

I would understand the butt hurt a lot more if Beamdog had added SJW crap/ messed up in some other ways, but in PST:EE I just don't get the parasite claim. They put out a product and they charge a price for the quality of life improvements (all customisable) they had made. Some of us think that the improvements are worth it (basically the price of a nice Kebab with soda), and others like you disagree.

Do you hate capitalism as well? Are you so self-righteous that you think you should be the judge of the prices of different goods and services in the market?

Most of the important stuff like community patch and restoration mod were already available for free, that is the point. The minor shit like pathfinding and tab highlighting is uneccesary or detrimental to the original game design. Also the biggest weakness of the game, combat, was left completely untouched.

Yeah you can think it is worth it. I can think in the same vein that you are a retard for throwing 20 bucks at them for little to no improvment to an already modded game.

The last sentence makes little to no sense whatsoever. I guess you hate free speech then?

 

[Vicar]

Not nearly as hard as planning, designing, writing, etc. an entire game from scratch.

Nobody is claiming Beamdog did more work than BIS, where did you even get that?

I would understand the butt hurt a lot more if Beamdog had added SJW crap/ messed up in some other ways, but in PST:EE I just don't get the parasite claim. They put out a product and they charge a price for the quality of life improvements (all customisable) they had made. Some of us think that the improvements are worth it (basically the price of a nice Kebab with soda), and others like you disagree.

Do you hate capitalism as well? Are you so self-righteous that you think you should be the judge of the prices of different goods and services in the market?

Most of the stuff was already available for free, that is the point. The minor shit like pathfinding and tab highlighting is uneccesary or detrimental to the original game design. Also the biggest problem, combat, was completely untouched.

Yeah you can think it is worth it. I can think in the same vein that you are a retard for throwing 20 bucks at them for little to no improvment to an already modded game.

The last sentence makes little to no sense whatsoever. I guess you hate free speech then?

Yeah feel free to think so, because I also think that you're a retard.
As for the last bit, I asked the questions because you're trying to apply your own judgement of whether a product is worth it universally.
I do not hate free speech because I am not arguing that you are not allowed to post dumb shit. Please continue.

 

[FeelTheRads]

What the hell are you talking about?
If you think the EE is a hack job and not worth the current price, feel free to not buy it.

Well, you claimed it's entitlement to not accept whatever price developers put on it.

 

[Vicar]

What the hell are you talking about?
If you think the EE is a hack job and not worth the current price, feel free to not buy it.

Well, you claimed it's entitlement to not accept whatever price developers put on it.

Please explain how did I claim that? Look back at what I said.
"some of us think that the improvements are worth it (basically the price of a nice Kebab with soda), and others like you disagree."

Edit: I also called Sykar a retard for trying to apply his judgement of whether a product is worth it universally. Obviously I am against that.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

(basically the price of a nice Kebab with soda)

Sorry to break this to you, but that kebab place is ripping you off.

 

[Lacrymas]

Like I said a dozen pages ago, if they fixed the horrendous combat, redesigned the encounters and used Avellone to make new content post-Curst then it would've been worth it, a lot even. And that's what they should have done. As it stands now, I don't think it's worth 20 bucks for improved pathfinding, everything else, besides mass loot, but eeeh, is easily available through mods.

 

[Vicar]

(basically the price of a nice Kebab with soda)

Sorry to break this to you, but that kebab place is ripping you off.

Nah most kebab shops here (Perth WA) charge around that amount for double meat with egg and cheese + drink.

 

[Delterius]

I guess you hate free speech then?

Do you hate capitalism as well?

Stop being so communist you all.

 

[Vicar]

Like I said a dozen pages ago, if they fixed the horrendous combat, redesigned the encounters and used Avellone to make new content post-Curst then it would've been worth it, a lot even. And that's what they should have done. As it stands now, I don't think it's worth 20 bucks for improved pathfinding, everything else, besides mass loot, but eeeh, is easily available through mods.

Yeah I can understand this reasoning but I also think that it's important to note that it's not 20 bucks for the enhancements - it's 20 bucks for an updated version of PS:T. So you'd have to deduct the original price of PST to really see how much they're charging for the stuff they've added. After that, whether it's worth it or not is really dependent on things like what we value and our financial status. Value adding is an integral part of businesses/ the economy and is not parasitic, despite what some may claim.

I also happen to think that PST's core content is already good enough without any changes and realistically I definitely don't trust Beamdog after the previous fiasco or even the current MCA to be able to fix the existing issues in terms of game play/ content. Hypothetically though, perhaps a "perfected" version of PST could've been made but the chances are slim. I guess we'll never know.

By the way, Sykar does rating all my posts as 'retarded' really make up for your own lack of proper response?

 

[Infinitron]

Here's a possibly useful way of thinking about it.

Back in the day, new PC games in stores cost $50. I probably paid around that much (well, my parents did) for my original PS:T box.

Many years later, I bought the game at a 50% off discount on GOG. I believe that was $5.

Now, let's say I buy PST:EE on Steam at a 75% off discount, which is also $5. That means that in total, I will have spent $60 over my entire life on Planescape: Torment, which seems fair.

 

[Vicar]

Here's a possibly useful way of thinking about it.

Back in the day, new PC games in stores cost $50. I probably paid around that much (well, my parents did) for my original PS:T box.

Many years later, I bought the game at a 50% off discount on GOG. I believe that was $5.

Now, let's say I buy PST:EE on Steam at a 75% off discount, which is also $5. That means that in total, I will have spent $60 over my entire life on Planescape: Torment, which seems fair.

Possibly useful, but I'd argue that the logical/ better way to think about it is to actually ignore what you've paid in the past (i.e. sunk costs) and just focus on how much you value the enhanced edition.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

It would, of course, be easier to see how the market values Beamdog's additions if the original versions remained on sale too (esp in the longer run once the initial burst of MCA publicity dies away).

 

[Vicar]

It would, of course, be easier to see how the market values Beamdog's additions if the original versions remained on sale too (esp in the longer run once the initial burst of MCA publicity dies away).

Yeah and it's also a little scummy to take down the originals but I guess it makes sense from their perspective.

 

[Lacrymas]

I took it as admitting defeat tbh. I.e. they could only get people to buy their EEs by removing the possibility to digitally buy the originals.

 

[Celerity]

That doesn't change the fact that they've rewritten most of the code. Yes, it was pointless, with trivial results, but they still did it.

Imagine someone beats the shit out of a car with a sledgehammer. Sure it's a lot of work, but the end result is still a beaten down hunk of junk.

 

[Lilura]

I think you'd have to be poor not to snap up PST:EE. (I do picture 80% of 'Dexers as lower middle-class; the other 20%, homeless.)

 

[SionIV]

I think you'd have to be poor not to snap up PST:EE. (I do picture 80% of 'Dexers as lower middle-class; the other 20%, homeless.)

At least we don't have to suck Beamdogs cock and write Siege of Dragonspear reviews/walkthroughs to survive.

 

[Lilura]

Charming as usual, my grassland gorilla. But do try to keep it in the misogyny thread.

 

[SionIV]

Charming as usual, my grassland gorilla. But do try to keep it the misogyny thread.

What did you say? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over all of those followers you have on your prestigious blog!

 

[Lilura]

if they fixed the horrendous combat, redesigned the encounters and used Avellone to make new content post-Curst then it would've been worth it, a lot even.

I don't mind paying for improved pathing routine; mods would have never fixed that. And when you have someone changing content - even if it's Avellone - well, that can be a slippery slope.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't mind paying for improved pathing routine; mods would have never fixed that. And when you have someone changing content - even if it's Avellone - well, that can be a slippery slope.

I don't mean them changing content, just adding more of it. Curst and beyond is (almost?) universally derided for lacking content and feeling tacked on and the devs have admitted to cutting a lot of it due to time/budget constraints. Beamdog had a unique opportunity to work with MCA to add the missing content and truly enhance the game.

 

[Lilura]

It would take more than MCA to do that, though. I know this may come as a surprise to some 'Dexers, but MCA wasn't solely responsible for PS:T. Plus, it's still changing the content of the game, and I personally wouldn't want an 18-years-later bolt-on by has-beens (sorry for all those hyphens).

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, of course it will take more than MCA, that's why they are an entire studio. He will just oversee the whole thing and write some stuff. Yes, it has the potential to backfire quite badly, but if they make it optional it wouldn't matter so much while the technical improvement would still be there. You yourself have said that they have good encounter design in SoD, so there's no reason (at least for you) to think they won't be able to improve that.

 

[Lilura]

I'm talking about the studio of Black Isle. But even if they got all the guys on board I wouldn't be all that interested, because, you know, 18 years is a long time and people forget how to do things.

I like aVENGER's Siege encounter design, yeah. But modders should be able to pick up the slack there, now that modability is facilitated and pathing routine is improved.