Being Evil in RPGs

[notpl]

you cant be evil, nor good, in a video game. simple as. maybe your actions can imitate, what we would consider irl as, good or evil. maybe they can actually affect outcome of the quests, conversations, and even entire story.
but you are still not hurting anybody.
you are still not helping anybody.
alignment systems may try to revaluate your every noteable action, they can try to place you in their n-dimensional charts, label you, but you still havent done anything meaningful. and the only meaningful stakes can be found in real life - the burden of sins, the suffering of selflessness. good and evil exists exclusively among betrayals, sacrifises, cowardness, greed etc. etc. of day-to-day existence. no amounts of immersion in any interactive media will cover it.
my point is: you cannot simulate good and evil between a real being and an illusion, because it is unsimulable. like love. feeling 'good' after helping a virtual granny find her missing object kitten_04_gray is as delusional as believing these two are actual beings - just because they are made of real particles beaming out of you monitor screen. yet its easier to convince yourself that you 'did good', when in fact, it was absolutely meaningless.

What RPGs can you think of that really allow a player to be a legitimate villain and overall evil piece of shit?

none. my answer is none. it always feels plain once you can see through the paper-thin facade of the medium. sometimes one evil path is written better than an other evil path, but it never feels fulfilling

*hits blunt* Whoa, man.

 

[Kruyurk]

In too many games, the evil options are very shallow. Either they're motivated by nothing more than narrow-minded greed, or they have the PC behave like a complete psychopath for no good reason.

Exactly. I always play my characters as Mother Teresa because it provides the best rewards and there's never any sacrifice for being good.

Mother Teresa was pretty evil though. You should watch the documentary Christopher Hitchens did about her.

 

[curds]

I don't have any specific answers for the OP, but one thing I HATE in RPGs is when asking to be paid for a job is considered evil.

In Fallout 1 if you ask to be paid for rescuing Tandy from the Raiders, the whole of Shady Sands turns hostile towards you.

 

[0sacred]

yeah well what kind of faggotry is this?


Why would you care exactly how evil, or creatively evil, a game allows you to be? Creative design is always a plus, mind you. But as far as your alignment/axis is concerned, I don't get it. Give me some interesting quests and some appropriate rewards, and I'm good. If being evil comes down to coercing people out of their money and items most of the time, so be it, it's kinda realistic to boot.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

TL;DR: it's a videogame, none of what you're doing is real, so it can never be good or bad

Thanks for poiting out the obvious
Anymore pretensious drivel you would like share?

 

[rubinstein]

yes, actually. if what i said is apparently so obvious, then why people keep posting "oh, sacrificing your companions is pretty evil" "feeding zombies with children is evil i guess"

 

[Lazing Dirk]

I'm glad someone was here to point out that events in video games aren't actually real, I was about to report you guys to the FBI.

 

[NecroLord]

I'm glad someone was here to point out that events in video games aren't actually real, I was about to report you guys to the FBI.

The FBI is busy being completely useless and investigating those evil Drumpf supporters.

 

[Tentacle Monster]

The problem with being evil in most RPGs is the fact that it doesn't really fit goals and main quest of the game. You are just some fucking stealing murdering psychopath asshole on a quest to save the day. Most games don't really give enough consequences to your actions. You killed bunch of civillians? Just pay a fine and you are free to go. You should be hunted down like a dog instead. And if the game has companions like bioware games they should react more to your actions, it's really bad in kotor when good companions will complain when you kill someone but they will never try to stop you.

The best example of game where you can be evil is probably something like mount & blade, you can make entire playthrough dedicated to attacking villages and live like some bandit lord.

 

[notpl]

yes, actually. if what i said is apparently so obvious, then why people keep posting "oh, sacrificing your companions is pretty evil" "feeding zombies with children is evil i guess"

Breaking: role-playing gamers possess imaginations; use them

 

[The Jester]

Planescape: Torment lets you to do some pretty damn cruel things, it's the only game where the evil playthrough made me feel like shit.

 

[Gargaune]

Mask of the Betrayer is a memorable exception. Being evil is highly satisfying, it brings risks as well as rewards, and it leads to the best ending in the game.

MotB is absolutely fantastic on the Evil path, so many memorable setpieces. I absolutely adore the part where you...

Spoiler

... feed the Founder's soul to her own undead lover, what sweet music she makes!

Among things not mentioned in this thread, I'd also give Tyrants of the Moonsea a nod for its evil ending. It's not a very sophisticated affair, one of those Human Revolution "press button, receive ending" things, but it's quite cool in the setting.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Not a real RPG, but I remember how I tried to do the evil path in Fable 3 when I was a kid. I slaughtered whole towns of people, stole at every opportunity, picked all the nasty dialogue options, beat my wife, farted on orphans - you know, the typical Fable evil route. But when I got to the final part of the game, where you get to control the kingdom, I felt too bad about making the evil options - like increasing taxes or turning an orphanage into a brothel - so I picked the good boy alternatives, and before I knew it, the game's ending was telling me that I was the most noble king in all of Albion and that I'd be forever remembered as a heroic paragon of all that is good and virtuous. Who says power corrupts?

 

[0sacred]

I felt too bad about making the evil options - like increasing taxes or turning an orphanage into a brothel

with the orphans still inside? That's some nasty shit yo

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

"See that city? You can nuke that!"

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

And if the game has companions like bioware games they should react more to your actions, it's really bad in kotor when good companions will complain when you kill someone but they will never try to stop you.

This isn't true exactly. Carth will stop you from killing a few people on Taris. Moreover, given the fact that the game revolves around Bastila deceiving you into leading her to a super weapon that must be destroyed, she has absolutely no choice but to stand by you. Without your character's memories, the Star Forge wouldn't be found in time. That goes for Juhani as well.

Really, there's only two other party members that would ever stand against the PC in KotOR and they are bound by physical inability and higher duties. You can't just pull pistols on a Dark Jedi and expect to walk away alive. Random Sadcase #128's life or livelihood is not personal enough to risk their own lives and the fate of the galaxy over. Also, you'd be surprised what people are willing to rationalize away when they've been fighting together for months and relying on each other daily. This is how Revan and Malak originally broke most of their followers.

I agree with the sentiment you're putting forward in most cases, like if your character were just a random evil fighter in a Forgotten Realms campaign, I could see how good party members who aren't bound to you for anything other than personal reasons would roll the dice on moral grounds, but KotOR isn't such a case.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Is there any game where being evil actually feels convincing instead of just being retarded and killing people for no reason

 

[0sacred]

Is there any game where being evil actually feels convincing instead of just being retarded and killing people for no reason

stop right there criminal scum communist

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is there any game where being evil actually feels convincing instead of just being retarded and killing people for no reason

vtmb
You're unambiguously one of the bad guys.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

This isn't true exactly. Carth will stop you from killing a few people on Taris. Moreover, given the fact that the game revolves around Bastila deceiving you into leading her to a super weapon that must be destroyed, she has absolutely no choice but to stand by you. Without your character's memories, the Star Forge wouldn't be found in time. That goes for Juhani as well.

Really, there's only two other party members that would ever stand against the PC in KotOR and they are bound by physical inability and higher duties. You can't just pull pistols on a Dark Jedi and expect to walk away alive. Random Sadcase #128's life or livelihood is not personal enough to risk their own lives and the fate of the galaxy over. Also, you'd be surprised what people are willing to rationalize away when they've been fighting together for months and relying on each other daily. This is how Revan and Malak originally broke most of their followers.

I agree with the sentiment you're putting forward in most cases, like if your character were just a random evil fighter in a Forgotten Realms campaign, I could see how good party members who aren't bound to you for anything other than personal reasons would roll the dice on moral grounds, but KotOR isn't such a case.

This is part of my problem with both KotOR games. You aren't really allowed to be your own character. Any backstory you come up with for your character gets wiped by plot reveals. It was a cool plot twist for KotOR 1, but I just wish there was a Star Wars RPG where you could be your own man. It feels like all of Revan's most important accomplishments were done off-screen, outside of your control, whereas with really great RPG protagonists like the Chosen One, the Courier, or the Avatar, everything you do and your influence on the world is almost entirely within your own control as the player.

 

[perfectslumbers]

vtmb

Thanks :D

 

[rusty_shackleford]

kotor(to some extent) and kotor 2 get massive points in their favor for this because of companion corruption
being able to pull others along with you can really make it hit home

 

[notpl]

Kotor didn't have companion corruption, as far as I know? You have to kill several of them to take the evil path.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Kotor didn't have companion corruption, as far as I know? You have to kill several of them to take the evil path.

you can force zaalbar to kill mission due to his life debt
also other things I've long forgotten

 

[notpl]

Kotor didn't have companion corruption, as far as I know? You have to kill several of them to take the evil path.

you can force zaalbar to kill mission due to his life debt
also other things I've long forgotten

Right, but he hates it and you for making him do it. It's nothing like Kotor 2, where your companions will actually become ruthless alongside you and have new dialogue depending on alignment.