Squeenix Best Final Fantasy

[Butter]

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

Final Fantasy IV (originally called FF2 in the United States) was the first to venture fully into the realm of the new JRPG subgenre, with narrative and characterization overtaking gameplay mechanics. The three Famicom/NES games are overshadowed by the later ones due to this shift in subgenre, as well as two of the three not having been released outside Japan at the time.

 

[Ash]

Absolute BS. Yes, FF4 was declined storyfaggotry. Not any of the 8 or so games immediately after however, most of which had very ambitious gameplay, others of which had little narrative focus at all (5, 12).
The only stand-out is FF6 for having only a moderate gameplay focus in the first third, but by the end game (WoR) it branches out enough to compensate for the drawn-out somewhat mediocre start (gameplay-wise) and earn its monocle from me, yet even the first sub-par storyfag third of FF6 has better gameplay than a lot of the shit out there. Not by much, but it does.

Like it or not, 90s FF games had some of the most ambitious gameplay the industry ever produced. That's a fact. The sheer amount of sub-games in FF7 is unparalleled for example, even if most are shit. But not only sub-games is notable here, far from it. They are equal parts story and gameplayfag in my book. Yes, it's not like wRPGs with character creation, diverse NPC interactivity, 30 different skills etc, instead they do other forms of gameplay features and styles I think many overlook.
Further adding to the prestige of 90s FF (sans 4), every game had vastly different systems, mechanics, features, and gameplay twists from the last. Highly innovative and ambitious stuff.
There is no series of sequels so different from one another, and yet it retains and builds upon the core concepts beautifully every time. Until FF10, but even with that games decline it too had notably ambitious gameplay. New combat once again. New RPG systems once again. New gameplay interactions and puzzle elements during story segments once again. New diverse sub-games like Blitzball and monster arena that you can get tens of hours from each alone. Al Bhed language learning through exploration and special events, or alternatively deciphering it yourself from partial fluency. Must I go on? Even the worst example is still notably gameplay-centric and innovative, putting many other RPGs to shame including tons of western stuff. But OMG there's cutscenes so it must be lame storyfag shit right? WRONG.

Anyways, the first four games suck ass in every way, including gameplay. Gameplay is their sole focus in the case of 1-3 and they suck at even that. RPG systems are barebones, exploration is unrewarding, puzzle elements? Not many. Optional content? Forget it. The only thing they do half-decent is difficulty/gruelling combat in tricky to navigate mazes, but that alone doesn't carry them. In fact it gets fucking tedious because there is very little gameplay variety. They are typical 80s games: far too primitive to enjoy unless you were an 80s kid that had no comprehension of anything better. I beat them only because from the later games I expected them to get better over time as per the standard 90s FF established, but unfortunately they remain bland, dead simple, repetitive as shit throughout.

I would only spare a vote for 1-4 if the only other options was anything FF13 and beyond, which is only then when the series became storyfag or lacking gameplay focus. Kind of like how every game did around that time.

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

5 is like 1-3 (combat and dungeon-focused more than anything) and yet better in pretty much every way. 1-3 (and 4) are largely redundant that only low standards fags can appreciate.

Now as for difficulty, 90s FF still partially deliver. 5 especially, but in the case of the others: Late game optional content is always pretty challenging. Throughout the game there is often optional opportunities for tough encounters, high risk high reward. Secondary gameplay elements (puzzles, mini-games, navigation) always at least meet a baseline level of acceptable challenge, and lastly combat still requires understanding the rules, building your character well and playing intelligently to become OP (or else some grinding) which is still respectable. Ultimately though, combat difficulty is overall too easy in a number of them and that is where romhacks come into play, which I have recommended many times. With these applied, 90s FF are elite-tier games (again, not including shitty 4), some of the very best examples of the industry, if they weren't already (they were).

Also, fuck the poll, FF6 is not the best precisely because of its lacking first third. Yet "not the best 90s FF" is hardly a dig. Game is legendary.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

FF1 was an unfinished buggy mess. It had severe limitations in the text/translation that makes it difficult to play, like a lot of other NES games that rely on hints from NPCs and such. It has a wisdom stat that does literally nothing. They didn't even try to connect it to anything like spell damage or whatever. It's just a meaningless number that goes up. It was, for it's time, an interesting game due to the exploration and team building aspects, but it falls short of what 5 did.

FF2 had an interesting, but terribly flawed leveling system that promoted grinding particular stats in dumb ways and completely ignoring magic. Lame.

FF3- not sure about this one. I know it's where the class system started but that's about it.



FF4 actually has a pretty cool combat engine, with the way stats, equipment, and so forth interact, and enemies have some interesting weaknesses to various status effects and so forth. Sadly, none of it is relevant in a casual playthrough because you'll outlevel everything and steamroll the game with basic attacks and healing. It does make for a good randomizer though. But it's also the first entry where you have basically no control over your party, which was a massive decline. No jobs, just stick the biggest stick on the fighters and call it a day. ZZZzz. Though it did have some good story beats.

 

[scytheavatar]

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

Ultimately, a mere DQIII shits on all those NES FF games and make them look like trash. I think FFIII in particular is pretty good but I would not consider it a classic.

 

[Ash]

FF3- not sure about this one. I know it's where the class system started but that's about it.

It's a slight improvement over 1 & 2 but still shit. 5 is peak of that early concept/style. 6 too if we ignore the first third storyfaggotry excess + easier difficulty + slight decline of character building systems over 5.

Edit: not fuck the poll. It's quite prestigious in that it ends at 12 and X-2. The games after that couldn't be any further removed from the original concepts, spirit, execution, style, intelligence, soul. That's the cutoff point for me too.

Ultimately, FF1-4 are shit but fine if you were gaming in the 80s I guess, fine by those standards. 5-9 is peak of the series, and some of the finest games ever made. 10-12 is where the series started to go off the rails (and big changes in the company, change of leading visionaries etc is partly why), but the people involved with those games were still actually trying and the results are...mixed but still respectable. After that it's all worthless. This is the objective course of events and outcomes. Anyone that says otherwise, ignore.

 

[Yuber]

I can't decide between 7 and 12 lol
7 I like the characters, music and story more.
But 12 has the better gameplay and worldbuilding.

 

[Ash]

Meh. 7 has better gameplay and worldbuilding too. I don't consider MMO-ification of systems and endless grinding to be particularly good gameplay. Still a somewhat fun and impressive game, but definitely no longer Final Fantasy by this point.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

My favorite is 8. The best is definitely 7. Just play it with a good romhack or overhaul mod.

6 always wins with "monocled" crowds, but I had to slog through it. Would anyone even play it without the legendary soundtrack and graphical designs? I'm not an aesthetics disrespectoor but some people don't realize the series had more than that.

 

[Ash]

6 is still respectable in all aspects of design, but does have at times sloggy gameplay for sure. Kind of the black sheep of the 90s greats in that regard, yet is still full of gameplay value overall.
Aesthetics? Probably the weakest thing about it. Definitely nice sprite work but by 1994 standards actually kind of dated, and parts of the game do look genuinely ugly (e.g overworld, magitek factory train ride). It's more the music and story, and to lesser extent gameplay that people praise it for. The jump in graphics between 6 and 7 is simply astonishing.

8 is genuinely great, but tarred by horrible balance and the occasional weird choices across the board (level scaling, teen melodrama, limit break spam, orphanage plotline).
Perhaps the worst of the 90s greats, but I still love it especially modded.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Well, respectable, yes. But I played it after the PSX ones and FFX, I felt quite constrained by the customization and battle system. The boss encounters never surprised me. It felt like a more realized FF4, which I enjoyed as a nice story with grandiose characters and less shonen tropes than later entries.

The graphics, in the sense people used that word when a certain game came out, end up mattering very little when you play them later. By aesthetics I was thinking mostly of the character designs, the towns and stuff like the Magitek thingies.

 

[Ash]

Yeah, the character customisation isn't as fun as the others. Learning magic, managing stat boosts, finding the occasional optional espers and skills late game, equipment/relics, there's just about enough to play with, strategize and personalize but it is decline over the rest. Also as you say, a lot of the combat is super easy too, but definitely not all of it.

BUT, even the weakest in this regard is still just about qualifying as some level of monocled gameplayfagism, no mere iteration of shitty non-game FF4. There's plenty puzzle elements (e.g switch puzzles in dungeons), optional content, party of 16 unique characters, expansive maze-like dungeons (not at first), mini-games (colloseum, auction house, moogle battle formation thing), numerous gameplay events during story segments with appropriate rewards (e.g save shadow, empire banquet NPC challenge), hidden items in the environment and secrets to discover, late game tough encounters, optimizing party growth, non-linear WoR.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I can't decide between 7 and 12 lol
7 I like the characters, music and story more.
But 12 has the better gameplay and worldbuilding.

What I liked in 12 above the others was the consistency of its world design(specially compared to 7, which was a kitchen sink). It was also relatively open, from what I remember. There was this tyrannosaur that could kill you in a single turn in one of the early areas. I didn't enjoy its "mature" story of political intrigue, because it was full of Star Wars tropes. The main character was probably the most unlikable of any FF game I've played and the other characters were kind of forgettable, too. I found the gameplay ultimately frustrating. The system for automating battle actions is ambitious, but seems geared towards removing work rather than trying complex strategies. Why are the battles designed in such a way that you feel compelled to make them less tedious? Why have so many MMO trash encounters in the first place? Still, I managed to finish it, which is saying something in my case.

 

[Lord of Riva]

8 has level scaling which is completely retarded, with the draw system the best idea is to not fight as much as possible.
12 Is an MMO for single-player. You can completely Idle the game after reaching midgame, and before it's still boring.

5 is where it's at. 6- 7 are good. 9 is wierd but stylish, still worth playing. The rest is *meh* or worse.

 

[Butter]

Absolute BS. Yes, FF4 was declined storyfaggotry. Not any of the 8 or so games immediately after however, most of which had very ambitious gameplay, others of which had little narrative focus at all (5, 12).
The only stand-out is FF6 for having only a moderate gameplay focus in the first third, but by the end game (WoR) it branches out enough to compensate for the drawn-out somewhat mediocre start (gameplay-wise) and earn its monocle from me, yet even the first sub-par storyfag third of FF6 has better gameplay than a lot of the shit out there. Not by much, but it does.

Like it or not, 90s FF games had some of the most ambitious gameplay the industry ever produced. That's a fact. The sheer amount of sub-games in FF7 is unparalleled for example, even if most are shit. But not only sub-games is notable here, far from it. They are equal parts story and gameplayfag in my book. Yes, it's not like wRPGs with character creation, diverse NPC interactivity, 30 different skills etc, instead they do other forms of gameplay features and styles I think many overlook.
Further adding to the prestige of 90s FF (sans 4), every game had vastly different systems, mechanics, features, and gameplay twists from the last. Highly innovative and ambitious stuff.
There is no series of sequels so different from one another, and yet it retains and builds upon the core concepts beautifully every time. Until FF10, but even with that games decline it too had notably ambitious gameplay. New combat once again. New RPG systems once again. New gameplay interactions and puzzle elements during story segments once again. New diverse sub-games like Blitzball and monster arena that you can get tens of hours from each alone. Al Bhed language learning through exploration and special events, or alternatively deciphering it yourself from partial fluency. Must I go on? Even the worst example is still notably gameplay-centric and innovative, putting many other RPGs to shame including tons of western stuff. But OMG there's cutscenes so it must be lame storyfag shit right? WRONG.

Anyways, the first four games suck ass in every way, including gameplay. Gameplay is their sole focus in the case of 1-3 and they suck at even that. RPG systems are barebones, exploration is unrewarding, puzzle elements? Not many. Optional content? Forget it. The only thing they do half-decent is difficulty/gruelling combat in tricky to navigate mazes, but that alone doesn't carry them. In fact it gets fucking tedious because there is very little gameplay variety. They are typical 80s games: far too primitive to enjoy unless you were an 80s kid that had no comprehension of anything better. I beat them only because from the later games I expected them to get better over time as per the standard 90s FF established, but unfortunately they remain bland, dead simple, repetitive as shit throughout.

I would only spare a vote for 1-4 if the only other options was anything FF13 and beyond, which is only then when the series became storyfag or lacking gameplay focus. Kind of like how every game did around that time.

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

5 is like 1-3 (combat and dungeon-focused more than anything) and yet better in pretty much every way. 1-3 (and 4) are largely redundant that only low standards fags can appreciate.

Now as for difficulty, 90s FF still partially deliver. 5 especially, but in the case of the others: Late game optional content is always pretty challenging. Throughout the game there is often optional opportunities for tough encounters, high risk high reward. Secondary gameplay elements (puzzles, mini-games, navigation) always at least meet a baseline level of acceptable challenge, and lastly combat still requires understanding the rules, building your character well and playing intelligently to become OP (or else some grinding) which is still respectable. Ultimately though, combat difficulty is overall too easy in a number of them and that is where romhacks come into play, which I have recommended many times. With these applied, 90s FF are elite-tier games (again, not including shitty 4), some of the very best examples of the industry, if they weren't already (they were).

Also, fuck the poll, FF6 is not the best precisely because of its lacking first third. Yet "not the best 90s FF" is hardly a dig. Game is legendary.

This is fairly compelling. Thanks for putting in effort. I think I might play through the first 6 or so at some point and reevaluate. I always thought it was pretty cool that they did these one-shot minigames like 7's Fort Condor and snowboarding when they could've just focused on the core mechanics.

 

[Lemming42]

I don't mind FF1 - 3. FF1 is very basic but, like all the Final Fantasy games, it's a triumph of graphics, music, and atmosphere. I really like that you build a party of your own characters in FF1 too, I wish more of the sequels did that, though obviously that'd jar against the "please sit through our hours-long story that we couldn't even get made into an anime" stuff that the series thrives on. I know there's the job system in 3/5 and Esper/Materia/etc in the other ones but it's not the same.

FF2 is good just for the setpieces, like being swallowed by the Leviathan. The skill-by-use system is kind of retarded but you can take the characters off in any direction you want, at least, and if you know what you're doing then you can get on top of the game pretty quickly. The thing where they keep killing and replacing your fourth party member is pure horseshit though.

FF3, I never liked the job system much. Part of the problem with FF3 I think is that the only times I've ever played it are times when I'd just played 1 and 2 prior to it so I'm completely sick to fucking death of the whole thing at that point. There's some more of the nice 80s Japanese fantasy (which is to say, naff D&D ripoff) aesthetic that the other NES games have, at least. I remember thinking the sea receding to reveal the entire massive continent below was really cool.

 

[Ash]

This is fairly compelling. Thanks for putting in effort. I think I might play through the first 6 or so at some point and reevaluate.

Just skip the first four. Save yourself some valuable time. If it's just combat-focused dungeon crawlers you want, there are so many other superior options out there, both JRPG and WRPG.

You've played Deus Ex w/ GMDX (hopefully on hardcore mode) so you've already experienced one of the utmost forms of peak gameplay the medium offers. Playing FF1-4 is pretty much the polar opposite of that; absolute zero. Well, not that awful but they're really quite redundant.

I always thought it was pretty cool that they did these one-shot minigames like 7's Fort Condor and snowboarding when they could've just focused on the core mechanics.

This implies a lack of focus on the core mechanics though. I don't think that's the case, it's just let down by a lack of difficulty (or a hard mode). At the time, FF7 was the biggest budget game ever made by far. they likely just had interns programming mini-games while the vets focused on the core. The core gameplay does have a notable amount of depth and complexity, it's just mainly let down by the easy combat. Once you try it with the hardtype romhack as everyone should, the gameplay comes full circle.

The most baffling thing to me is why these games never had hard modes and we have to rely on rom hacks. There's a lot of gameplay to love but a notable portion of it is undermined by the lack of combat difficulty, with only FFV being acceptable.
It takes almost fuck all time to add an option to the new game screen and multiply enemy health and stats by 1.5. Obviously more effort than that is desired yet that alone would work wonders.

 

[Yuber]

Meh. 7 has better gameplay and worldbuilding too. I don't consider MMO-ification of systems and endless grinding to be particularly good gameplay. Still a somewhat fun and impressive game, but definitely no longer Final Fantasy by this point.

I don't see any MMO in FF12?
There are zero fetch quest like kill x Wolves, no MMO Dungeons etc???
If FF12 is an Offline MMO what about Tales of Arise, Star Ocean 6, Xenoblade 3?
And I don't know what you mean with endless grinding?

 

[Falksi]

Honestly, I find it amazing that this series is so highly regarded. At least other JRPG series (Phantasy Star, Yakuza, Trials, Lunar, Lufia etc.) have some continuity and direction; Final Fantasy feels like a series where developers just kept plugging away using the same format and story until they got it right (which I'm not even sure they did tbh)

My pick would be FF5, the story is lacking but the gameplay and job system is the most interesting of the lot for me. Although FF6 probably has the peak moments of all the series, and when it's on-form it is top tier stuff (Kefka is definitely a top tier villain) but there's also a lot of sluggish and dull play to endure getting to that good stuff too. I can see why people rate FF6 so highly though.

But the whole series i's another embodiment of "Fireworks gamming". Lots of "wow!" moments which are often part a somewhat nonsensical game. Like FF7 blew people away with it's incredible OTT cinematics and grandeur at the time, I totally get that and it snagged me too, but it was peak display of an evolving format at the time. Anyone who played it a few years after it's release will recognize how boring the game can actually be itself, especially after you leave Midgar.

 

[wwsd]

I'm necroing this thread and I don't give a fuck. What's with everyone ignoring 1-3? Those seem like the most patrician entries in the series to me, with a strong gameplay focus and some real difficulty.

I played FF1 on NES once and GBA once, and I'm playing the GBA FF2 now (tried it on NES for a little bit, but I'm not ashamed to say I didn't get far). They are hard games for sure, although I think the original NES versions also have lots of broken shit that doesn't work. And the kind of difficulty (from what I recall from FF1 on NES) that may have been fine in the 80s, but would now not be considered the kind of difficulty that players will go for. Like dungeons just being gauntlets with constant random encounters, where beating them just depends on stocking enough Ethers. Or all the empty rooms in FF2 that teleport you to the centre of the room and you then get ambushed every tile. A lot of things in these games are difficult, sure, but they're also bullshit.

I did only recently learn that the whole FF2 "You have to kick yourself in the nuts to get stronger" meme is a bit of a myth. I mean in the NES version it's possible to raise HP that way, but having high HP is not the main way to get ahead in the game. Overall I prefer the solution in the GBA version that HP just grows over time, but in any case, it doesn't justify the hatred for this game because of the levelling system. Levelling skills as you use them is a nice mechanic, just perhaps a bit rough in the original version, which is a late 80s game after all.

FF3 is the only one about which I know next to nothing. Heard it's supposed to be pretty good, it has the job system, but also damn hard. Might try it after FF2, but probably only with a break in-between. Otherwise it's easy to get burnt out on these games.

From what I've seen so far, the first 3 games definitely have their qualities, but I'm also not surprised that Square went down the storyfag route as soon as they were able. In many ways, FF5 hits the sweet spot in terms of roleplaying options.

 

[Disciple]

The third Final Fantasy for the NES is better than its immediate predecessor in my book, though I'd rank it a bit below the very first one. It has a job system, like FFV, but it was implemented in a less satisfactory way. Mild spoiler about the latter for an example: in FFIII you reach a certain point in the game where you are pretty much forced to switch all of your characters to a certain niche-ish job (and train them at it) in order to survive a boss battle.

 

[Machocruz]

Honestly, I find it amazing that this series is so highly regarded. At least other JRPG series (Phantasy Star, Yakuza, Trials, Lunar, Lufia etc.) have some continuity and direction; Final Fantasy feels like a series where developers just kept plugging away using the same format and story until they got it right lol (which I'm not even sure they did tbh)

My pick would be FF5, the story is lacking but the gameplay and job system is the most interesting of the lot for me. Although FF6 probably has the peak moments of all the series, and when it's on-form it is top tier stuff (Kefka is definitely a top tier villain) but there's also a lot of sluggish and dull play to endure getting to that good stuff too. I can see why people rate FF6 so highly though.

But the whole series i's another embodiment of "Fireworks gamming". Lots of "wow!" moments which are often part a somewhat nonsensical game. Like FF7 blew people away with it's incredible OTT cinematics and grandeur at the time, I totally get that and it snagged me too, but it was peak display of an evolving format at the time. Anyone who played it a few years after it's release will recognize how boring the game can actually be itself, especially after you leave Midgar.

"Moments" are for children, game journalists, and women. When it's all said and done, V is the only one I can still stomach to actually play. It's the culmination of gameplaycentricity of 1-3, making them obsolete. I tried playing 4 for the first time recently, and it was charming, simplistic, and mediocre. The characters' abilities weren't interesting to me, so the combat wasn't interesting (and there is far too much of it), and thus why not just watch all the story scenes on Youtube if I cared about that? What's more is that 6 is a better version of 4, a triumph in style, personality, production, and world-building; the best FF at delivering an "experience" (what most AAA games are today, to which FF6 is a superior precursor), but still lacking as a game. FF7 was 6's afterbirth.

But let's not shit on everything outside of systems. Again, 6 is a grand production, imagine if V had its best qualities, or vice versa -it would be the absolute peak of the series in all areas.

 

[Ash]

Guys stop shiting on the 90s 3D games

Play them with difficulty romhacks and appreciate some true gaming. No other JRPG series I have ever played truly competes, with largely only Squaresofts other stuff coming close (FF Tactics, Parasite Eve, Vagrant Story). Wow factor and style over substance my fucking ASS!

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Meh. 7 has better gameplay and worldbuilding too. I don't consider MMO-ification of systems and endless grinding to be particularly good gameplay. Still a somewhat fun and impressive game, but definitely no longer Final Fantasy by this point.

I don't see any MMO in FF12?
There are zero fetch quest like kill x Wolves, no MMO Dungeons etc???
If FF12 is an Offline MMO what about Tales of Arise, Star Ocean 6, Xenoblade 3?
And I don't know what you mean with endless grinding?

They're talking about how boring the presentation of the gameplay is. Character focused in the center of the camera, boring autoattacks, character standing around waiting for his next autoattack, etc. No battle music, the zone music is still playing, etc. It doesn't have the cool, cinematic presentation of other FF games where the camera frames the characters dramatically and the characters are striking cool poses and such and has appropriate music and such. Xenoblade does feel like MMO combat in that regard, though you do at least get combat music.

 

[Modron]

Since op is like 4 years gone from the codex are we now free to state that final fantasy tactics is the best FF game?