Squeenix Best Final Fantasy

[Ash]

Saying you prefer FF13 over FO3 instantly outs yourself as a contemptable storyfaggot.

FO3: terrible story (and other aspects), but OK gameplay. Not good. Not great. But OK. For starters it is open world, a fairly mediocre one, but that is still better than endless coridoors with absolutely zero branching. I don't plan to play FO3 again but if it is that or most other terrible games from 2007 I'd accept.
FF13: worthless gameplay, but if you're a tasteless dweeb and jerk off to waifu pillows on the regular you might still enjoy the story etcetera.

Fo3 is utter shit in all secondary elements, but the gameplay is at least not a zero substance utterly linear braindead auto-battler.

And as a fan that grew up with the games, I did not recognize it as a FF game in any way. Not gameplay, not story, not music, not aesthetics. stylistically it was as disgusting as it could possibly be. even things as small the battle menu aesthetics and naming conventions (characters, moves etc) irk me.

I'd rather play Fallout 3 than FFXIII. Of course, 13 killed me enough I couldn't even bring myself to boot 15, so there's that.

That corridor simulator thing, I don't think I've ever made it passed the first hour or two of 13, it's such a boring shitty cutscene slog followed by running down a corridor. What the fuck were they thinking?

Motomu Toriyama's Wikipedia article is a gold mine. This guy started directing on FFX, which was also aggressively linear.

It was pretty linear and set a standard of decline, but still not as bad as FF13.

Yeah after 9 that was it. Very clearly a change within the company and the people making the games.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore.

So he had no business directing any FF titles and should get out of gaming.

Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost.

What an asshole. Making games for literal retards.

Basically he's a fucking hack and shouldn't be in charge of making RPGs.

100%

 

[Ash]

Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore.

...

Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost.

Gross. Get the fuck out of this industry. a hack indeed.

Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore.

So he had no business directing any FF titles and should get out of gaming.

Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost.

What an asshole. Making games for literal retards.

Basically he's a fucking hack and shouldn't be in charge of making RPGs.

100%

Hmm, maybe you're not so mediocre after all

 

[Beastro]

I'd rather play Fallout 3 than FFXIII. Of course, 13 killed me enough I couldn't even bring myself to boot 15, so there's that.

That corridor simulator thing, I don't think I've ever made it passed the first hour or two of 13, it's such a boring shitty cutscene slog followed by running down a corridor. What the fuck were they thinking?

Motomu Toriyama's Wikipedia article is a gold mine. This guy started directing on FFX, which was also aggressively linear.

Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore.

...

Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost.

Basically he's a fucking hack and shouldn't be in charge of making RPGs.

That's Square in a nutshell. Whatever genuine RPG elements seemed to only be there because they were making games when they are THE game company that has always wanted to make movies.

They, after all, ruined themselves and got bought out trying to do just that with The Spirits Within.

It's sad to say that looking back, because I love so many of their games, but FFIV showed where their interests really laid with how restrictive it was.

 

[Ash]

That's Square in a nutshell. Whatever genuine RPG elements seemed to only be there because they were making games when they are THE game company that has always wanted to make movies.

You're full of shit and know nothing about anything. Shut up.

FF5 for example is NOTHING like a movie, the story is very barebones, it's heavily gameplayfag. Furthermore, just because some of their later games had cinematic qualities and an obvious degree of story focus, it doesn't take away from their gameplay ambitions that those very same games had. And news flash for you, they had VERY ambitious gameplay, up until 13. Very ambitious everything, with budgets far exceeding everyone else in the industry. It's almost impossible to find another JRPG series with even half as much complexity and finish.

 

[mediocrepoet]

That's Square in a nutshell. Whatever genuine RPG elements seemed to only be there because they were making games when they are THE game company that has always wanted to make movies.

You're full of shit and know nothing about anything. Shut up.

It's actually an interesting point. I don't think it was all along or anything, but sure, Square has been pushing story driven games certainly since FFIV. They're sort of interesting to compare with Bioware in this way and the similar trajectories in several ways. With the Parasite Eve sequels, Square even had some of the Bioware style sexualization of characters to pander.

 

[Ash]

It's like saying System Shock or Deus Ex are story games all along, because both those games had story focus that exceeded much of the competition. Yes they did, but are you fucking retarded? They also had gameplay focus that exceeded much of the competition too. Likewise with Final Fantasy, but it goes even further than that: Graphics also. Music? The games had 3+ hour long soundtracks! The reality is, they were in a league of their own. Still are. Sadly, people have a very loose grasp on reality and I guess I will be here to rudely remind them.

FF4 is an exception. It is pure storyfag. The director was a theatrefag hack that also had no business being in games. So 2 games out of 13 are blatantly storyfag. Wow. He was sure on to something.

Also, comparing to Bioware is also utter decline. Those are storyfag games with zero gameplay substance and far less on offer, at least every one I played. Utter shit for storyfags. You're demoted back to mediocrity.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's like saying System Shock or Deus Ex are story games all along, because both those games had story focus that exceeded much of the competition. Yes they did, but are you fucking retarded? They also had gameplay focus that exceeded much of the competition too. Likewise with Final Fantasy, but it goes even further than that: Graphics also. Music? The games had 3+ hour long soundtracks! The reality is, they were in a league of their own. Still are. Sadly, people have a very loose grasp on reality and I guess I will be here to rudely remind them.

FF4 is an exception. It is pure storyfag. The director was a theatrefag hack that also had no business being in games. So 2 games out of 13 are blatantly storyfag. Wow. He was sure on to something.

Also, comparing to Bioware is also utter decline. Those are storyfag games with zero gameplay substance. You're demoted back to mediocrity.

Bioware's earlier games also had gameplay focuses, depending on which titles we're talking about.

Either way, there are clear cinematic driven elements that are present in say IV and VI in particular and really start going off the rails with VII when you start spending more time watching cutscenes of shit than playing, even during battle with the summons and what not.

 

[Ash]

Either way, there are clear cinematic driven elements that are present in say IV and VI in particular and really start going off the rails with VII when you start spending more time watching cutscenes of shit than playing, even during battle with the summons and what not.

7 is like an 80 hour game consumed in full. 20 hours of that at best is watching story shit. Nope. Maybe play the game again?
Between every story segment is a ton of battles, mini-games, exploration, party management, puzzle elements, side quests and more.

Yeah the summons are stupid for sure, and a distasteful choice. It stands out but doesn't make the overall game story over gameplay. I just don't use them for the most part.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Either way, there are clear cinematic driven elements that are present in say IV and VI in particular and really start going off the rails with VII when you start spending more time watching cutscenes of shit than playing, even during battle with the summons and what not.

7 is like a 80 hour game consumed in full. 25 hours of that at best is watching story shit. Nope. Maybe play the game again?

Yeah the summons are stupid for sure. I just don't use them for the most part.

You don't think ~1/3 of a game being cutscene is way too high? That's bananas, even if it isn't as bad as things became later. It's the sort of thing that turned me off jrpgs entirely for a lot of years.

 

[Ash]

Nope not at all. Some games are pure gameplay only, yet only 30 minutes long (e.g shmups). Here you get 60 hours or whatever of gameplay, and a nice story to accompany.

The Metal Gear Solid games push it for me, being like 50% gameplay to 50% story in a 15 hour long game or whatever, but even then, their gameplay is above average, good quality shit, so it's just about acceptable. Until MGS4. That game is more like 70% cutscene and just lacks soul in general.

Anyways, the FF stories are fun if nothing else, music some of the very best of the industry and well above standard length, the graphics were a benchmark for what is possible in the 90s, gameplay while combat often sadly easy and some mini-games shitty, is overall complex, diverse and hugely ambitious. Name one other RPG series where core systems completely changed into something not seen in any other game ever, each time. e.g 5 jobs system, 6 espers, 7 materia, 8 junctioning, 9 learn from equipment + ability stones, 10 sphere grid and so on. Their ambitions were through the roof across the board. Name one game that has a railshooter, Turn-based battle arena with slots, RTS, two racing games, a snowboarding game, submarine game, endless random mini-games like squatting challenges, heck just an entire themepark of sub-games built inside of it? That's FF7. Don't tell me that isn't fucking ambitious. It's not only beyond ambitious, it's completely insane. Yeah most kind of suck but still. At least they feed back to the core gameplay via rewards, which helps make them engaging. And this is far from the full picture, just the most obvious stuff I am pointing out.

anyways, here I am repeating myself again. Thinking this shit is storyfag is fucking RETARDED. There are many actual storyfag "games" out there and they suck horribly, and yet are often celebrated as masterpieces despite 0 gameplay merit, just endless mind-numbing pretend gameplay. It's been a blight on the industry for some time.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I don't think cutscenes are much of a problem in the FF games of that era. By cutscenes, I assume it's meant both the FMVs(very rare) and unskippable scenes such as the Nibelheim flashback. Certainly not as big a part of the game as in Metal Gear Solid which, by the way, was very innovative in everything it did in that regard and people were rightly impressed, at least as far as the first game goes. What's actually tedious in FF(and JRPGs in general) is the repetitiveness of the random encounters, particularly having to watch the battle start/finish animations, the level up screen and the fade in/out(I guess those technically counts as cutscenes); the running around in towns that don't have a lot of content (Juno, Balamb Garden) and clicking through generic dialogue with NPCs just so you don't miss anything. If the games weren't so pretty and had such great music it would be hard to bear, but it turns out they are and they do.

 

[Beastro]

That's Square in a nutshell. Whatever genuine RPG elements seemed to only be there because they were making games when they are THE game company that has always wanted to make movies.

You're full of shit and know nothing about anything. Shut up.

FF5 for example is NOTHING like a movie, the story is very barebones, it's heavily gameplayfag. Furthermore, just because some of their later games had cinematic qualities and an obvious degree of story focus, it doesn't take away from their gameplay ambitions that those very same games had. And news flash for you, they had VERY ambitious gameplay, up until 13. Very ambitious everything, with budgets far exceeding everyone else in the industry. It's almost impossible to find another JRPG series with even half as much complexity and finish.

Wow, I touched a nerve.

I'm not dismissing them dude, nor am I claiming gameplay focused games from them like FFV didn't exist, I'm recognizing a current that ran through the company that led them into bad places at times which almost killed them. That current has its place, but can be overpowering.

An odd strength of Parasite Eve is its short, concise story that fits well with its movie-like qualities.

The issue is they as a game company, when given enough resources, ultimately tried to break into movie making after having a history of, not just story driven games, but ones done in a particular cinematic framework long before the modern plague of cinematic gameplay ever existed.

It is the same with Chris Roberts and the Wing Commander series with how it increasingly evolved until the dude tried to make a movie like Square later did.

I find it reflective in your own posts here how you're defending some games in this series based upon hacks that emphasize the gameplay in FF games that wasn't emphasized in them in their vanilla forms. You praising FFVIII stands out the most when the game's main focus going in was trying to build a Final Fantasy around a romance between two characters.

That doesn't mean those aspects of gameplay aren't there, but we know what came foremost, and it wasn't even mere storyfagging (which I myself don't mind, depending on the genre of game, you need a good amount I feel) but trying to craft games in movie form.

 

[Damned Registrations]

It's like saying System Shock or Deus Ex are story games all along, because both those games had story focus that exceeded much of the competition. Yes they did, but are you fucking retarded? They also had gameplay focus that exceeded much of the competition too. Likewise with Final Fantasy, but it goes even further than that: Graphics also. Music? The games had 3+ hour long soundtracks! The reality is, they were in a league of their own. Still are. Sadly, people have a very loose grasp on reality and I guess I will be here to rudely remind them.

FF4 is an exception. It is pure storyfag. The director was a theatrefag hack that also had no business being in games. So 2 games out of 13 are blatantly storyfag. Wow. He was sure on to something.

Also, comparing to Bioware is also utter decline. Those are storyfag games with zero gameplay substance. You're demoted back to mediocrity.

Bioware's earlier games also had gameplay focuses, depending on which titles we're talking about.

Either way, there are clear cinematic driven elements that are present in say IV and VI in particular and really start going off the rails with VII when you start spending more time watching cutscenes of shit than playing, even during battle with the summons and what not.

FF6 was also some serious decline in gameplay mechanics, even compared to 4. Like half the stats in the game were essentially nonfuctional, and the whole esper stat system was basically window dressing as a result. The only stat that did anything worthwhile was speed, and it was basically impossible to raise anyways. FF6's saving grace gameplay wise was the creative relics you could equip, many of which just copied job abilities from FF5. As an explorefag I enjoyed being able to find an item that let me counter attack or dual wield, but it basically made most of the characters interchangable paper dolls. Though not as badly as FF7, where they only had limit breaks to set them apart, or FF8 where they basically didn't even have that since only like, Quistis had an interesting limit break and everyone else was just a damage slot machine.

 

[Ash]

I don't think cutscenes are much of a problem in the FF games of that era. By cutscenes, I assume it's meant both the FMVs(very rare) and unskippable scenes such as the Nibelheim flashback. Certainly not as big a part of the game as in Metal Gear Solid which, by the way, was very innovative in everything it did in that regard and people were rightly impressed, at least as far as the first game goes. What's actually tedious in FF(and JRPGs in general) is the repetitiveness of the random encounters, particularly having to watch the battle start/finish animations, the level up screen and the fade in/out(I guess those technically counts as cutscenes); the running around in towns that don't have a lot of content (Juno, Balamb Garden) and clicking through generic dialogue with NPCs just so you don't miss anything. If the games weren't so pretty and had such great music it would be hard to bear, but it turns out they are and they do.

Balamb Garden not a lot of content? Another Triple Triad denier has outed himself!

All town exploration segments are rather short and almost never outstay their welcome for me. I even enjoy talking to every NPC, aside from the rare few which have a slow animation before the text appears. the world is super interesting and tasteful humor is very common. Looting these towns is always worth it. And you may find secret passages or side quests too. Every town also often has multiple unique gameplay element too: some mini-game, puzzle element, side quest.

You said Balamb, well, let's go with that then: There's a few draw points (some hidden), some 20 or so people to optionally play cards with, a few with unique cards which is the important part. Training center is great for...well, training and growth, contains some unique enemies with unique drops and high AP. There are a few magazines scattered for weapon upgrades and limit breaks. a few sidequests are started here. It's nothing spectacular but it meets a baseline level of reward and engagement, shits all over every other JRPG I've played (but not cRPG). I never not enjoy it.

Battle start/fin is problematic to varying degrees depending on the game. 5 and 6 are super fast. 7 & 8 a bit slower but it doesn't bother me. 9 is horrendously slow and a stain on such a great game.

 

[Beastro]

It's like saying System Shock or Deus Ex are story games all along, because both those games had story focus that exceeded much of the competition. Yes they did, but are you fucking retarded? They also had gameplay focus that exceeded much of the competition too. Likewise with Final Fantasy, but it goes even further than that: Graphics also. Music? The games had 3+ hour long soundtracks! The reality is, they were in a league of their own. Still are. Sadly, people have a very loose grasp on reality and I guess I will be here to rudely remind them.

FF4 is an exception. It is pure storyfag. The director was a theatrefag hack that also had no business being in games. So 2 games out of 13 are blatantly storyfag. Wow. He was sure on to something.

Also, comparing to Bioware is also utter decline. Those are storyfag games with zero gameplay substance. You're demoted back to mediocrity.

Bioware's earlier games also had gameplay focuses, depending on which titles we're talking about.

Either way, there are clear cinematic driven elements that are present in say IV and VI in particular and really start going off the rails with VII when you start spending more time watching cutscenes of shit than playing, even during battle with the summons and what not.

Though not as badly as FF7, where they only had limit breaks to set them apart, or FF8 where they basically didn't even have that since only like, Quistis had an interesting limit break and everyone else was just a damage slot machine.

Look at the equipment issue with FFVIII, it's almost non-existant. You have very few, annoying weapon upgrades and that's it.

 

[Ash]

.

FF6 was also some serious decline in gameplay mechanics, even compared to 4. Like half the stats in the game were essentially nonfuctional, and the whole esper stat system was basically window dressing as a result. The only stat that did anything worthwhile was speed, and it was basically impossible to raise anyways. FF6's saving grace gameplay wise was the creative relics you could equip, many of which just copied job abilities from FF5. As an explorefag I enjoyed being able to find an item that let me counter attack or dual wield, but it basically made most of the characters interchangable paper dolls. Though not as badly as FF7, where they only had limit breaks to set them apart, or FF8 where they basically didn't even have that since only like, Quistis had an interesting limit break and everyone else was just a damage slot machine.

Not even gonna touch the FF6 "analysis".

FF7 had limit breaks, stats, and weapons to set them apart. Weapons = linked slots, long range status, materia growth rates, as well as the unique modifiers of ultimate weapons. Also, male and female characters had a few unique opposing armors. They also had story relevance that sets them apart, for whatever that is worth. Dialogue will be different depending on which character is in your party. Collectively it's not a huge amount, but it's just enough to distinguish them in a meaningful way and not be a worthy complaint, if actually paying attention.

FF8 yes, for the most part the characters are interchangeable gameplay-wise, though it's not necessarily a bad thing. There's a few subtleties (base stats) but for the most part, just pick the character that you find least annoying or best limit break is my recommendation.

 

[Beastro]

the world is super interesting

FFVIII has some of the weakest world building given how the contemporary setting undermines itself. You create a modern world and the majority of the main continent is Galbadia with a couple neighboring nations next to it whike the rest of the world is Balamb, Trabia and Esther.

It doesn't work the same as the old pseudo-Medieval fantasy setting of older games and FFVII at least centered around an odd world ruled by a single company.

Balamb Garden not a lot of content? Another Triple Triad denier has outed himself!

TT was ruined by the spread of later rules around the globe that weren't fun and just a pain in the ass to tolerate to get the cards that you wanted.

 

[Ash]

You praising FFVIII stands out the most when the game's main focus going in was trying to build a Final Fantasy around a romance between two characters.

I thought maybe I jumped the gun with you a bit, or maybe misintepreted what you were saying, but nope, I was dead-on. you did it again. You just broke down a complex multi-layered game with very ambitious gameplay into "Yeah nah it's mostly just a means to tell a romance story".

GTFO

Gamers, gah

 

[Damned Registrations]

Weapons = linked slots, long range status, materia growth rates, as well as the unique modifiers of ultimate weapons.

Basically none of this shit is important. There's a couple brokenly OP ultimate weapons that show up so late they don't matter. Range status? Who cares? This matters for like one or two gimmick fights in the entire game. Nobody is deciding whether or not to use Barret's drill arm based on whether or not it lets him do full auto attack damage from the back row. And the slots are pretty much at parity between members all game long. It's not like Cid has double the potential AP gain compared to Nanaki at any point or something.

stats

LMAO. Please, do pull up a damage mechanics guide and explain why I should care whether Aeris or Tifa is going to cast Bolt 2 on an enemy. I want to see you try and justify this somehow. FF7 stats mattered about as much as FF6, which is to say, not at all.

 

[Beastro]

You praising FFVIII stands out the most when the game's main focus going in was trying to build a Final Fantasy around a romance between two characters.

I thought maybe I jumped the gun with you a bit, or maybe misintepreted what you were saying, but nope, I was dead-on. you did it again. You just broke down a complex multi-layered game with very ambitious gameplay into "Yeah nah it's mostly just a means to tell a romance story".

GTFO

Did you play the game at launch? Did you see what the focus was made upon the game and its strengths? I remember what they hyped above all else and it was that followed by shit like the GFs and their summons.

Again, not that there isn't good there, but then there's shit like the level scaling, and as I said, stuff to spoil even TT.

 

[Ash]

Did you play the game at launch? Did you see what the focus was made upon the game and its strengths?

I think you are confusing marketing material with reality there buddy.

Marketing is a method to optimize sales, and it's handled by an entirely different team of people. Analyze the game only. The proof is in the pudding. There's a fuckton of effort gone into the gameplay. There's a lot of it. Sure it's horribly balanced, but no RPG is immune to balancing issues. The game does also have a huge storyfag focus, but again, it ALSO has a huge graphics focus. gameplay focus. music focus. Why is this not making sense? They were the biggest budget games of the era and ambitious in every way. Back when that was allowed.

Interesting. I just remembered something: I used to have the strategy guides for 8 & 9. Around 200 pages thick ("lol how is this possible, advertisements had me thinking it's a romance movie!!?"). As a kid I did read them a lot, mainly for the optional/hidden content (side quests, secrets, items found in towns, good shit to steal from monsters etc). Maybe there is a lot of content you guys missed if without. Especially in the case of 8 as its content is quite obscure. e.g it doesn't have 7's shiny objects, not 9's exclamation mark when interacting with the environment.

Here you go: https://archive.org/details/finalfantasyviii 267 pages

Again, not that there isn't good there, but then there's shit like the level scaling, and as I said, stuff to spoil even TT.

TT?

Don't take anything harsh I say personal. I should probably work on it, but I just enjoy giving you guys shit too much.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm pretty sure FF8 was his first rpg or something, dude is a fantatic and apparently hasn't even played many other games in the genre, aside from dabbling for a few hours on a train with no sound or some shit. Dude thought rangers were strong in FF5 because of SShot

 

[Ash]

My first RPG was Drakkhen I believe.

FF8 is far from my favorite FF. It was beasty boi who raised that particular line of discussion today. Fuck you little weeb.

As for Sshot....it's all you need to beat the game, so I never needed to experiment with the class any deeper. And it's all I need to strike down the furry weeb demon.

Your genre is largely shit. Almost every time I tried to explore it I was met with low effort garbage. very few gems.

 

[Damned Registrations]

As for Sshot....it's all you need to beat the game.

That's like saying Eden is all you need to beat FF8. SShot is difficult to acquire and incredibly ineffective compared to things that you can get far, far more easily. The fact that you care so much about these things you need to grind forever to get shows what kind of player you are; one that autistically gathers everything in sight regardless of efficiency, and then moans about lack of challenge when you've massively overlevelled the problems.