Bethesdas options regarding Fallout3

[Lumpy]

I love Fallout and Fallout 2, but I say fuck Fallout 3 since Bethesda is just using the name as a cash cow and won't make the game the CRPG it should be.
(Hey Bethesda if you're reading this prove me wrong)

Give them a fucking chance, will you? You know nothing about Fallout 3, stop bashing it, until you get the first info at least.

Are you 2 years old and still believe in santa?

How can you possibly believe those clowns are capable of producing anything like what the first two fallouts were like?

Well, didn't they make Daggerfall? And didn't you dislike Fallout anyway?

 

[Solik]

All the final fantasies even have realtime combat.

At least three, possibly four, of them did not, and that's excluding spin-off titles that did not such as Tactics.

Both styles require player skill. Hell, anything that's a "game" requires player skill (except for pure games of chance), so that's really irrelevant. Real-time is appealing because it generally requires fast thinking, something a lot of gamers enjoy.

 

[Lumpy]

All the final fantasies even have realtime combat.

At least three, possibly four, of them did not, and that's excluding spin-off titles that did not such as Tactics.

Both styles require player skill. Hell, anything that's a "game" requires player skill (except for pure games of chance), so that's really irrelevant. Real-time is appealing because it generally requires fast thinking, something a lot of gamers enjoy.

Fast thinking and twitchy finger skills, in a game with guns.
With swords, it doesn't really matter, because you don't have to aim at all, and they take a long time, so twitch skills are not useful. In a game with guns, it's another thing. You have to aim fast, and shots take little time, so player skill becomes very important.

 

[Xi]

I think we could all agree that when a gaming studio makes decisions for the soul purpose of making money, it turns out to be crap.

It's only when a studio tries to make the best possible game, not looking into demographics, etc, that they ever achieve something origional.

The fact that FO is no longer Origional is the nail in the coffin. Inevitably certain fanboys won't like it, even if the game itself is a huge success and given high reviews/regard by the community.

Bethesda is a very interesting company. They have complete creative control of all of there in-house products. Take-Two, for example, doesn't have any say in the design of there games. Most, if not every other, gaming studios do not have this kind of setup.

So, Bethesda isn't forced to design only for profit, they can bend the corporate rules of profitability, and make a product appeal to a niche market, without suits breathing down there necks. Certainly they still aim to make a killing, but it doesn't have to be there primary focus like most gaming studios.

Even if another company had gotten the rights, there would still be fanboys who absolutely hate it and mock the gaming studio who created it.

*shrug*

 

[kingcomrade]

Fast thinking and twitchy finger skills, in a game with guns.
With swords, it doesn't really matter, because you don't have to aim at all, and they take a long time, so twitch skills are not useful. In a game with guns, it's another thing. You have to aim fast, and shots take little time, so player skill becomes very important.

This could be avoided by forcing the player to aim. There's nothing that states aiming HAS to be done with crosshairs. I think Call of Duty actually took a step in the right direction by bringing iron sights into the picture. Of course, this solution is a little too unorthodox and imaginitive (even though it really isn't) for Bethesda.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

I love Fallout and Fallout 2, but I say fuck Fallout 3 since Bethesda is just using the name as a cash cow and won't make the game the CRPG it should be.
(Hey Bethesda if you're reading this prove me wrong)

Give them a fucking chance, will you? You know nothing about Fallout 3, stop bashing it, until you get the first info at least.

Are you 2 years old and still believe in santa?

How can you possibly believe those clowns are capable of producing anything like what the first two fallouts were like?

Well, didn't they make Daggerfall? And didn't you dislike Fallout anyway?

What the hell are you going on about?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I've always hated Bethesda games, etc., etc., and am baffled by how well they sell.

Not even the codex diehards will agree with you there, most liked Daggerfall it seems.

But given that they sell their lame single player MMORPGs in a fantasy setting, I don't see why they won't be able to sell them in a post apocalyptic setting, too.

They didn't buy FO for its "dialogue rich, isometric" gameplay, which was neither unique to, nor even invented by, FO. (See, e.g., Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.) They bought it for the name and for the visual style. (The setting was also neither unique to, nor invented by, FO.)

Thats probably true, although there is no way to know what parts of the formula they may want to incorporate. I doubt they bought a new franchise just to turn it into a TES lookalike.

It strikes me that what could well kill FO3 is not that they'll ruin the dialogue -- which seems inevitable, given the way Bethesda has always handled dialogue in the game -- or the combat -- which wouldn't bother me much because I've never been too beholden to a game's combat system -- but rather that they won't be able to nail the visual style / mood. That's part of, maybe the biggest part of, what killed FoBoS (aside from crappy gameplay, etc.). If it had had the look and feel of a FO game, it would've done much, much better, I think. Instead, it looked (to me) like a cyberpunk type game devoid of the 50's art / deco style.

One thing that's always disgusted me about Bethesda games is that while their technical execution of artwork is usually pretty competent, their visual styles are crapolla. It's not the uncanny valley, either. It's just really bad art design that makes their games look uninteresting and mechanical. I have a hard time imagining how they'll avoid falling into that same trap on FO3.

You are entitled to your own taste in graphics, but I have to disagree. Both DF and MW were very convincing to me in the art design. In fact if F3 could profit from one typical Bethesda trait, it's their love for detail. Fallouts graphics were moody, but also highly repetitious.

In any event, a part of me takes perverse pleasure in watching FO desecrated since, in fairness, FO groupies haven't gotten anything as bad as X-Com fans got. I mean, once there's a FO racing game, maybe you can start complaining . . . .

Hey, Bethesda makes racing games too! :evil: :shock: :D

 

[Lumpy]

I love Fallout and Fallout 2, but I say fuck Fallout 3 since Bethesda is just using the name as a cash cow and won't make the game the CRPG it should be.
(Hey Bethesda if you're reading this prove me wrong)

Give them a fucking chance, will you? You know nothing about Fallout 3, stop bashing it, until you get the first info at least.

Are you 2 years old and still believe in santa?

How can you possibly believe those clowns are capable of producing anything like what the first two fallouts were like?

Well, didn't they make Daggerfall? And didn't you dislike Fallout anyway?

What the hell are you going on about?

Bethesda. Make. Good. Game. Daggerfall.
Bryce. Not. Like. Fallout.

 

[Lumpy]

It strikes me that what could well kill FO3 is not that they'll ruin the dialogue -- which seems inevitable, given the way Bethesda has always handled dialogue in the game

"In the game"... You mean Morrowind, right? There was an older Bethesda adventure game, TES Adventures: Redguard, which, from what I've heard, had great dialogue. TES never had great dialogue because they weren't meant to. And there's a big difference between the number of NPCs who you can talk to in Fallout, and the ones you can talk to in Morrowind.
While Fallout 3 might not have great dialogue, although it might, should they hire good writers, I'm sure that it will NOT have TESish dialogue, but Falloutish dialogue.

Each NPC has a distinct personality and conversational style, and that helps convey a sense of immersion in the gameworld. The dialogue is well written, with a few conversational gems here and there.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Bethesda. Make. Good. Game. Daggerfall.

A. Long. Time. Ago. And in a galaxy far, far away.

 

[Lumpy]

Bethesda. Make. Good. Game. Daggerfall.

A. Long. Time. Ago. And in a galaxy far, far away.

But, there is still hope. Isn't there? Isn't there?...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nope. The main reason isn't even how competent or incompetent Bethesda is. The main reason is that Bethesda is all about money these days, and the Fallout games never sold in the numbers that Bethesda wants. They would HAVE to make a massmarket-friendly game, and you all know what that means.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Bethesda. Make. Good. Game. Daggerfall.

A. Long. Time. Ago. And in a galaxy far, far away.

No no nonononono, that was Knights of the Old Republic!

 

[kingcomrade]

Nope. The main reason isn't even how competent or incompetent Bethesda is. The main reason is that Bethesda is all about money these days, and the Fallout games never sold in the numbers that Bethesda wants. They would HAVE to make a massmarket-friendly game, and you all know what that means.

Not necessarily. It's financially viable, as far as I know, to go after niche products. And cRPGs are a niche but they aren't all that small. I mean, Fallout was still a really popular game, even if it wasn't a blockbuster. I don't really think it would be so time and money consuming to make a game like Fallout, even with modern graphics. In a niche market you are selling a lot less but the costs of production are also significantly less because you don't have to try to appeal to a massmarket. At least, that's how it was explained to me.

Of course, I know Bethesda is looking for a Diablo/Halo blockbuster and that relegating themselves to a niche title wouldn't befit their egos nor their corporate style. But there is hope that a smaller studio, not necessarily like these tiny 2 to 3 man operations that started out as Fallout mods, would take up the cause of a niche title. It's what many companies do when they develop games for systems such as the GBA.

edit- I just realized I was talking to someone who was developing a nice niche game and probably didn't need any of that.

 

[Nutcracker]

Fallout 3 an RPG? It's more likely to be a Bethesda version of Half-Life, developed primarily for the 360 of course.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

I loathed Daggerfall. I appreciate that it has its fans, but I'm not one of them. Having played all of the TES games for a little, but none other than Daggerfall for very long, it's hard for me to say what reasons one could have for liking Daggerfall but not Morrowind. Both played like single player MMORPGs with clunky interfaces. Daggerfall had addictive elements, of course, but so do MMORPGs (I've heard). It's all just a big Progress Quest.

Their graphics certainly are *detailed* and err . . . "convincing" -- whatever that means -- but I never found them to have an interesting style. The latest game looks like more of the same crappola. People with cat heads and paws just don't really do it for me for a "fantasy" universe, and all the light bloom in the world doesn't change that. I've always cared more about the artistic style of a game than its execution, which is why Sacrifice, for example, still seems prettier to me than, say, Star Wars: Empire at War.

 

[Solik]

Fast thinking and twitchy finger skills, in a game with guns.
With swords, it doesn't really matter, because you don't have to aim at all, and they take a long time, so twitch skills are not useful. In a game with guns, it's another thing. You have to aim fast, and shots take little time, so player skill becomes very important.

Skill-based autoaim would solve that problem, especially if it uses a system similar to Counter-strike where the bullets do not necessarily go where your crosshairs are pointing (or, in this case, almost certainly wouldn't). All that's left would be dodging, and if it's largely projectile-free, then there's nothing to dodge -- you're just essentially at the mercy of the opponent's aim skill (barring the use of cover, which is tactical). I wouldn't mind seeing an attempt at turn-based first-person combat, though, if just for the novelty of it.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Everything is possible, but I think it's odd that they've been here for about a year every day, ignoring ... what was that? constant villification, and then suddenly one day BOTH of them disappeared, and then Bethesda started removing links to that awful Codex site, even though links were posted and comments quoted for a year.

I don't think it's very fair at all to tell us about MSFD P.M.ing you on his reasons for leaving and then arguing about the possible reasons for his leaving. If you know and he's alright with you spilling the beans, spill 'em. Otherwise don't taunt us with the knowledge you're with-holding :evil:

 

[kingcomrade]

Skill-based autoaim would solve that problem, especially if it uses a system similar to Counter-strike where the bullets do not necessarily go where your crosshairs are pointing (or, in this case, almost certainly wouldn't). All that's left would be dodging, and if it's largely projectile-free, then there's nothing to dodge -- you're just essentially at the mercy of the opponent's aim skill (barring the use of cover, which is tactical). I wouldn't mind seeing an attempt at turn-based first-person combat, though, if just for the novelty of it.

You mean like in Doom RPG, as I mentioned? Do you guys just skip over my posts?

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

I liked Daggerfall and still have it installed and working using VDMSound. I Actually modded the hell out of Morrowind and played it. and did the same with NWN. Have to hand it to the community for making the mods.

As for FO3... well the first 2 had a certain style and special (no pun intended) game play elements that you either loved or hated. Alot of what made them great and loved by roleplayers were also what makes FPS players not like them I guess. Can FO3 be made as a FPS and still keep the essence of what made FO 1 and 2 great? How can FPS style game capture the combat and the dialog that people enjoyed? I dont think Beth can lay claim to having any good dialogs in any of their games and certainly none as good as was seen in any of the games made by Interplay/Black Isle or Origin.

Many new games fail to live up or capture what made the first/original games great. Deus Ex 2, Thief 3 to name a few. And then we have others.. TOEE, Vampire Bloodlines and KOTOR2 that just show how games are rushed out and released when there're not ready! eeeeeeeeeeeh

When game content, and character development suffer so a game can be ported to console or the fact they think more people will play it if it's dumbed down is all to common and pretty bloom festering graphics don't make up for it.
I would rather have games made by the now dead Black Isle than games that have shiny new graphics.

You want to see a sample of my desktop to see the current games I play?


Making a CRPG seems to be getting harder and harder. Seems they want to blur the lines and make action/rpg fps with no story and very linear gameplay.

I'm only looking forward to 3 games coming out in the future right now, those are NWN2, Stalker and BioShock.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Everything is possible, but I think it's odd that they've been here for about a year every day, ignoring ... what was that? constant villification, and then suddenly one day BOTH of them disappeared, and then Bethesda started removing links to that awful Codex site, even though links were posted and comments quoted for a year.

I don't think it's very fair at all to tell us about MSFD P.M.ing you on his reasons for leaving and then arguing about the possible reasons for his leaving. If you know and he's alright with you spilling the beans, spill 'em. Otherwise don't taunt us with the knowledge you're with-holding :evil:

Life isn't fair, my friend. Everything else pales in comparison

Anyway, he gave me a reason (nothing dramatic, btw), I asked him if I can share that reason seeing that you guys do nothing but speculate all day long. He didn't reply. The reason remains private.

 

[Solik]

You mean like in Doom RPG, as I mentioned? Do you guys just skip over my posts?

I read it, I just don't know anything about Doom RPG. Or, well, didn't.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

This link has alot if not all of the old classic RPG's.
www.christoud.com

The Elderscroll trolls that seem to be hanging out here now at the Codex could learn alot from playing them... maybe come to understand what makes a great CRPG.
Let me tell ya, it's not pretty graphic's and eye candy.

 

[damaged_drone]

i was under the impression that after oblivion, fallout3 will be the major focus of a very large console/pc rpg developer. theres no way surely that beth will make a small, niche fo3. after the $$$$ of morrowind it absolutely will be ported/designed with consoles in mind and with the entire company throwing themselves behind it. 2 year developement (?) by very large design team and microsoft expectations for what it percieves as one of its major developers=AAA blockbuster expectations type game.
"sequel to the cult classic" coming for xbox360 winter 07. etc

 

[LlamaGod]

Like I said before, I wanna see a Bethesda tard try to beat Ultima 4 without a cheat guide