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Bioshock demo is out

abstract

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Vault Dweller said:
How many people said that it's not a good game?

I skimmed a few pages back and found one :D Anyway, I merely wondered aloud whether the general feeling of negativity towards Bioshock that I got from the codex (and it seems I'm not the only one) is going to change now because you, as one of the most respected people on this board, praised the game.
 

sabishii

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abstract said:
Now witness the amazing turnaround where everyone says that they always thouth Bioshock was a good game, just not an rpg.
The only thing the nay-sayers said were that, based on the demo, they didn't expect it to live up to SS2. What? Are expectations based on a demo supposed to be reviews of the game, now?
 

msoltyspl

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I don't follow. Unless I've missed a great many somethings, Bioshock received about as much press over the past year as Oblivion did in any given week. I spend a lot more time following RPGs than FPSs, so this is certainly likely, but someone else is going to have to corroborate this for you.

Hype & marketing were bad words I used. Sorry my mistake. But the amount of crazy reviews of how absolutely the best, impressive, revolutionary, awesome, perfect, genre-breaking game it is - it brought instantly flashbacks of Oblivion praising in my mind.

I first heard of Bioshock about a week or two ago. I'm not the first person to know about games, but I don't live under a rock either... plus I'm an FPS/shooter fan.

:shock:


ps.

Defuser.ini editing went much faster than I anticipated. [default] section was enough.
For what it's worth.
 

cardtrick

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Nicolai said:
Definitely a false alert. I got the demo off gameupdates.org. No one else reported any trojan trouble in the comment field, and judging by the checksums I found online, the file was the real deal. A quick googling turned up a few threads on the issue as well, every single one of which confirmed my suspicions; I had a false positive on my hands. :the plot thickens:

Thanks!
 

abstract

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sabishii said:
. What? Are expectations based on a demo supposed to be reviews of the game, now?

And anyone that expects more from a game than the demo shows is a fucking retard

page 3 of this topic. I'm pretty sure I could find more if I could be bothered to look.
 

sabishii

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abstract said:
sabishii said:
. What? Are expectations based on a demo supposed to be reviews of the game, now?

And anyone that expects more from a game than the demo shows is a fucking retard

page 3 of this topic. I'm pretty sure I could find more if I could be bothered to look.
"And anyone that expects more from a game than the demo shows is a fucking retard"
:roll:
 

abstract

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Right, so:

the demo sucks -> the demo is essentially the same as the full game -> ergo the game sucks (or is underwhelming or whatever)

Please point out the holes in my reasoning.
 
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For the record, I think the respawning issue is going to kill this game for me. When you get free Eve and health for dying, lose nothing, and enemies don't recuperate or respawn, it's just going to be dumb. Sure, suicide runs are pretty stupid....but there is no "fear" of dying. Sure, save/reload or a checkpoint system isn't much better, but at least there is a consequence for death, unlike this. Without a consequence, there is no challenge, and with no challenge, there is no real gameplay besides stupid "I'm pretending to play a role by killing this way" type of stuff. No real death ruined Prey, which looked very promising and had some nifty mechanics. It will probably ruin this too.

Not to mention I doubt the story will be anything new. I'm fully expecting some lame plot twist or a rehash of System Shock 2 plot points and characters, like the person guiding you turning out to be the real "bad dude" a la Polito/SHODAN. Neo-Bioware's corruption spreads.
 

fizzelopeguss

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Edward_R_Murrow said:
Not to mention I doubt the story will be anything new. I'm fully expecting some lame plot twist or a rehash of System Shock 2 plot points and characters, like the person guiding you turning out to be the real "bad dude" a la Polito/SHODAN.


Would You Kindly. :wink:
 

HanoverF

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Vault Dweller said:
Well, it IS one of the best shooters in the last 10 years.

T'isnt

Oh One of... ok maybe.

Negatives, Very doom3ish "Hmm empty room. AMBUSH!" ad naseum
Good ideas implemented very poorly
Stolen ideas implemented even worse. (tk=gravity gun that seldom works)
The aiming and movement feel very "consolized" and sluggish.
 

sabishii

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abstract said:
Right, so:

the demo sucks -> the demo is essentially the same as the full game -> ergo the game sucks (or is underwhelming or whatever)

Please point out the holes in my reasoning.
The demo sucks -> the demo SHOULD be essentially the same as the full game because it DEMONSTRATES what the game will be like -> ergo it is justified to expect that the game will suck.
 

obediah

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abstract said:
obediah said:
And anyone that expects more from a game than the demo shows is a fucking retard

page 3 of this topic. I'm pretty sure I could find more if I could be bothered to look.

Not a fan of logic, eh? It's even better that I posted this general rule, after posting my comments of the bioshock demo - that it didn't seem to be a "shock" gamed, but looked to be a promising FPS.
 

Bradylama

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Also I'm gonna try and head off any more brain-beating by pointing out that expectations aren't declarations.

That you can expect something to suck without saying that it will suck.
 

Pegultagol

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Edward_R_Murrow said:
For the record, I think the respawning issue is going to kill this game for me.

I agree. Maybe that is how some splicers seem to regenerate. What is the back story for this, if any? Seems somewhat ludicrous to me as much as what a glorified save point system without any slot would look like in a PC game aspiring to console standards. It would have been better if the saves were done in a more discreet manner such as in between level loads. It does seem to not only negate the consequence of some of your actions, but also restrict the freedom of your actions due to lack of it, despite how strange it may sound.

But I think many here will have fun playing the game, the likes of which I have not seen for many years. The last such single player story driven FPS game I've played is No One Lives Forever 2, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

And who knows, given its Unreal 3 roots, it may release a multiplayer option down the road (e.g. Hunt the Bid Daddy Mode) like what Deus Ex did, although I don't think that is least in the interest or focus of 2K.
 

The_Pope

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The criticism is coming from the fact that the demo seems more like a demo of Doom 3.5 than System Shock 3.
 

DemonKing

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I've only got past the first level after the introductory (demo) level so far, but it's an enjoyable enough romp. I'm not sure yet it belongs in the OMFG 10/10 best game ever!!!! category though, but my initial impressions are that it is at least a very good 8-9/10 game.

My criticisms so far are:

* Some lingering consolitis like huge health bars among enemies and crappy aiming.

* The hacking "minigame" is already boring.

* In this day and age I find the large piles of tape recorders left lying around the place to further the story a bit on the clumsy side.

Only minor niggles though - I'm looking forward to playing some more tonight.
 

HanoverF

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The insta respawn tubes do become a puzzlement when you are tasked with killing 'named' people as opposed to random splicers. They never thought to pass by one of the handy dandy devices? The Creator of Rapture is hell bent on your destruction, but it never occurs to him to shut them down? It's one of those poorly designed things that makes no sense outside of "You Are Playing a Video Game" or more specifically one with no Quicksave system.
 

DemonKing

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HanoverF said:
It's one of those poorly designed things that makes no sense outside of "You Are Playing a Video Game" or more specifically one with no Quicksave system.

Except the PC version has quicksave...which makes the insta-respawn vats even more puzzling.

At least when you die in Bioshock you don't have to go to the spirit world and fire arrows at passing tadpoles before you respawn... :roll:
 

Dark Matter

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I've played up to the beginning of the Arcadia section of the game, and for anyone that cares, here's some information/impressions:

-Research is still in the game, but it works in a very different way in comparison to SS2. Basically you get a "research camera" and take pictures of your enemies. As you take pictures, a progress bar fills up(the amount of the progress bar that is filled up depends on the quality of the pic). Once it fills up, you get various bonuses like extra damage against that enemy, special tonics, ability to harvest organs that heal you etc. If the game was more RPGish, I would've preferred the research system of SS2, but for a more action-oriented game like Bioshock, I think the new system is more ideal.

-From what I've seen, the only way you can get ADAM is through the little sisters. This means letting the big daddies and little sisters go about their business isn't really much of an option.

-Lots of audio logs.

-Non-linear level design with lots of optional rooms and areas to explore, and you are rewarded for exploring thoroughly with some pretty useful items like tonics and stuff.

-Hacking mini-game is still pretty lame. There are a couple of alternatives like hacking by paying money or using a disposable autohack tool. Also, there's no real advantage in not choosing to hack every single device you run into. In fact, you'd be foolish not to hack pretty much every single vending machine that you come across. Even when dealing with turrets, it's really just a lot simpler to zap and hack rather than try to destroy it. Ofcourse, the turrets, even when hacked, tend to annoy you a lot more than help you, especially those rocket launcher turrets which cause plenty of splash damange when it keeps on attacking enemies that are just a few inches away from you.

-All characters are going to be a jack-of-all-trades. You can't really focus on a specific style of play...well actually you can but there's really no logical reason to do so, you'll just be at a severe disadvantage if you don't make full use of your hacking skill, and all your plasmids and weapons. All characters can get all plasmids and all tonics, the supposed "customization" part is that you can only use a few plasmids/tonics at any given time(you have to go to a gene bank if you want to exchange your current plasmids). So, I suppose you get a slightly different experience depending on which plasmids you keep with you, but really it doesn't make much of a difference and doesn't seem like it's going to add a whole lot of replayability.

-I thought the plasmids themselves were quite good. Sure, in the end, they're all pretty much used to kill your enemies, directly or indirectly, but this is an action game after all. And they're still far more interesting than most magic powers you see in other games. You can do stuff like turn big daddies against enemies, create a decoy to distract enemies, melt ice with fire etc.


Overall, I still think it's a wonderful game though.
 

Fat Dragon

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I got the game today and played it for quite a while. Last place I stopped was when a guy wearing a welding mask threw me a grenade launcher while I was fighting a splicer woman with blade arm thingies. The game is quite good, better than most FPS these days.

I liked the fact that if you continually save Little Sisters, the older woman that is helping them will have one leave you a gift basket of sorts that usually contains ammo, a shit load of ADAM, and a Plasmid (the one I got allows me to temporary convince a Big Daddy to fight for me).

Enemy AI is pretty decent. They won't just stand there and let you shoot them; if they're injured they'll run to the nearest med-station to heal up; if they're on fire they'll run in the water; if they see you and you have lightning crackling from your fingers they'll attempt to get away from water as fast as possible.

The hacking mini-game is annoying an pointless. Annoying because it's immensely boring and pathetically easy; pointless because my dad who is farther in the game than I is finding auto-hack tool everywhere.

Ammo isn't really a problem as long as you aim carefully, and use the machine gun in short controlled bursts. Med-packs and those EVE needles are found all over the place, and the many check point Vita stations make the game somewhat easily, though. If you want a challenge, I recommend you play the game on hard mode.

Still, I'm enjoying the game immensely and feel that I'm getting my money's worth.
 

abstract

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Okay guys, now that we're headed into the realm of semantics and whether expectations give off a less negative vibe than declarations I think it's time to end this discussion before it embarks on a downward spiral of "no ur lol".

One more question: can I expect more from the full game than from the demo without being a fucking retard? ;)
 

Naked Ninja

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Once you get past the demo area, the level design is excellent and pretty non-linear(and don't worry, no more doors locking behind you, you're free to backtrack if you wish)

Also, the demo does not accurately convey the finished product. The use of plasmids and gene-tonics are not properly represented. The combat with more advanced splicers/big daddies is non-existant in the demo. The weapon upgrade/invention/character building (though shallow) are not there as well. The items and pacing are much improved over the demo as well.


Where's that dude who was mocking me for believing this would be the case? Hah! I thumb my nose at you sir/sirs!

It's an awesome shooter, incredibly atmospheric. The environments are amazing. The weapons, options (AP ammo, HP ammo, regular ammo), and powers are great. You can use the lightning bolt powah to activate "shorted" door mechanisms, stun enemies and turrets, you can use fire to melt ice blocking access to some optional areas, etc.

The choice between killing the girls and saving them is a nice touch, especially since you get half as much ADAM (and thus half as much bio improvements) for saving them. I was hinted at the reward for saving them, but I have no idea what it might be yet.

The saving part is not "oh, noes, killing is wrong, saving is good" crap. The guy who's guiding you via the radio tells you that the girls are monsters and only look like girls and that you should get as much ADAM as you can otherwise you will not make it. The crazy scientist woman who created the girls wants to keep them alive. She's the one who promised me the reward.

Quoted for yet more vindication :P
 

HanoverF

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Not only did they fake widescreen, if you pick the weenie route you go through the final act with a big circle on the perimeter of the screen, which could possible be screen destroying in some TV's cases. Joy.

and pretty non-linear(and don't worry, no more doors locking behind you, you're free to backtrack if you wish)

Lies.

I don't really see "I can go in this closet and get an extra shotgun shell or NOT" as non -linear. There's really only Bioware style non-linearity. You have to kill 4 people and the last two can be in whatever order you want!
 

Hazelnut

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00311b.jpg


:lol:
 

Dark Matter

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HanoverF said:
Lies.

I don't really see "I can go in this closet and get an extra shotgun shell or NOT" as non -linear. There's really only Bioware style non-linearity. You have to kill 4 people and the last two can be in whatever order you want!

I was referring to the level design, not non-linearity in terms of choices and consequences. I thought it was more or less equal to what you had in SS2. The game even lets you return to previous levels like in SS2.
 

xedoc gpr

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Well, I'm sitting here waiting for this huge 2 gigabyte demo, which is bigger then most of the other games i have on here combined, to download. I suppose I'm in the camp that liked System Shock for it's atmosphere and storytelling first, and game mechanics second, so it wouldn't really bother me that the RPG elements were toned down. The hacking "minigame" seems pretty lame though.

P.S.
Twinfalls said:
Lurking here nowadays I see a site that's remained clever, lively, witty, and consistently funnier than pretty much anywhere else around the place. A site which has kept its wryly dissident cynicism and built up a decent community of nice people - the truly unpleasant don't seem to last long at all.

Anyone who's been lurking at this site since the beginning (like me) would realize this is completely delusional. Even master VD admits it.
 

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