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Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread
- Thread starter Suchy
- Start date
Heresiarch
Prophet
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- Mar 8, 2008
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First let's try to argue with Skyway's troll attempts. Apparently as always he simply throw out random questions that he didn't even put a single brain cell to process to argue a game/plot/design is bad.
Say what you will, I still think the game's plot is actually quite cleverly designed, if not handled properly. If you can accept plots like Inception, and of course game plots like "a guy dying over and over again to finally realize he lost his mortality" or "people in the world can never truly die until the fire of the world can be lit up again or distinguished forever", I don't see why you can't accept Bioshock Infinite's plot. Stay calm and think for a moment: if this game is a turnbased RPG with tons of stats, the gameplay isn't that messed up with HP bloats and railroaded levels, the whole design is not so Disney-ish, and finally it's written by MCA...heck, just make it into a Silent Hill game by Team Silent and I bet you'll start masturbating over it now.
Try not to bash a game story because of codex elitism, sucky gameplay, or just for hate's sake.
Did it tell why Booker converted to Baptism and became racist and jingoist in a blink?
He already killed yellow skinned Indians back in Wounded Knee, and the baptism made him think his sins are all awashed, thus being racist and killing coloured races were alright before, and so - also the future. On the contrary, Booker (the one who didn't take the baptism) carry on with his life with the guilt, which actually made him feeling emphasized to the other races. Think of it as this way - Booker felt regret which CHANGES HIS NATURE (PST REFERENCE!), while Comstock felt he was forgiven by God for everything he did (and will do).
Did it tell you why would Booker steal his own daughter from himself considering all Bookers had a daughter?
Apparently this "simple plot" is too complicated for your tiny brains to comprehend. Comstock did not have a daughter per se. Anna was born after the baptism event, and only if Booker ran away from the baptism. If Booker took it, he became Comstock, and Anna was never born for him. Thus he must steal a daughter from his parallel world self.
Why Elizabeth has the magical powers?
Read the voxophones. Lutece said "a small part of Elizabeth was left in her own world", which messed up with the universe's law. You can say that she became the nexus of holes of universes or something.
Why a bunch of blips would pose a threat to a 1984 nuclear USA with its airplanes and AA defenses?
Come on, if in 1912 Colombia already had mechanized minigun wielding robots, rocket firing turrets, huge cities that floats thanks to quantum physics, and of course all those crazy Vigor powers, what kind of military strength do you think they will have 70 years later? Not to mention Colombia has Elizabeth who would probably make tears to summon Terminators to fight for them.
How did Booker manage to build a hugeass floating city in 20 years?
It's called science fiction with quantum physics involved. How could demons and dwarves exist in Darklands? How could the Earth Federations build space colonies in so many science fictions? Go play Arma if you want your realism.
He already killed yellow skinned Indians back in Wounded Knee, and the baptism made him think his sins are all awashed, thus being racist and killing coloured races were alright before, and so - also the future. On the contrary, Booker (the one who didn't take the baptism) carry on with his life with the guilt, which actually made him feeling emphasized to the other races. Think of it as this way - Booker felt regret which CHANGES HIS NATURE (PST REFERENCE!), while Comstock felt he was forgiven by God for everything he did (and will do).
Did it tell you why would Booker steal his own daughter from himself considering all Bookers had a daughter?
Apparently this "simple plot" is too complicated for your tiny brains to comprehend. Comstock did not have a daughter per se. Anna was born after the baptism event, and only if Booker ran away from the baptism. If Booker took it, he became Comstock, and Anna was never born for him. Thus he must steal a daughter from his parallel world self.
Why Elizabeth has the magical powers?
Read the voxophones. Lutece said "a small part of Elizabeth was left in her own world", which messed up with the universe's law. You can say that she became the nexus of holes of universes or something.
Why a bunch of blips would pose a threat to a 1984 nuclear USA with its airplanes and AA defenses?
Come on, if in 1912 Colombia already had mechanized minigun wielding robots, rocket firing turrets, huge cities that floats thanks to quantum physics, and of course all those crazy Vigor powers, what kind of military strength do you think they will have 70 years later? Not to mention Colombia has Elizabeth who would probably make tears to summon Terminators to fight for them.
How did Booker manage to build a hugeass floating city in 20 years?
It's called science fiction with quantum physics involved. How could demons and dwarves exist in Darklands? How could the Earth Federations build space colonies in so many science fictions? Go play Arma if you want your realism.
Say what you will, I still think the game's plot is actually quite cleverly designed, if not handled properly. If you can accept plots like Inception, and of course game plots like "a guy dying over and over again to finally realize he lost his mortality" or "people in the world can never truly die until the fire of the world can be lit up again or distinguished forever", I don't see why you can't accept Bioshock Infinite's plot. Stay calm and think for a moment: if this game is a turnbased RPG with tons of stats, the gameplay isn't that messed up with HP bloats and railroaded levels, the whole design is not so Disney-ish, and finally it's written by MCA...heck, just make it into a Silent Hill game by Team Silent and I bet you'll start masturbating over it now.
Try not to bash a game story because of codex elitism, sucky gameplay, or just for hate's sake.
aris
Arcane
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- 11,613
She isn't.
aris
Arcane
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Of course. The plot isn't in any way more ridiculous than the PS:T plots. Haters/hipsters on this thread have exactly two problems with this game, which is extremely transparent and easy to see: It's "too mainstream", and it has been well universally well received both by the players and the critics.
MetalCraze
Arcane
Heresiarch oh please bro. Don't try to find something that isn't there. You sound like a Dear Esther fan.
Booker is p. much a do-gooder through the whole plot. Comstock's and Booker's characters are also the extreme opposites of each other.
Which are all destroyed by a single alcoholic kwa soldier from 1912. So why would a professional, well-trained US army of 1984 have any problems?
Bro you shoot a fucking blimp with a rocket and it burns like oil fields. No amount of your pretentious "they have robots and spells!" (which they got how?) will break the simple laws of physics. One nuke and floating city is no more.
Which wasn't found until 1984 (when people were already to the moon) how?
And why would Elizabeth consciously destroy Kwa of her own will? (because she apparently summoned Booker and showed him what she did - which means it was her own will)
Dude it's just a shitty fantasy for posers who want to think they enjoy a quality sci-fi when in fact it's just another shitty game plot where things don't make a slightest bit of sense. But they seem deep cuz there's plot twist every 5 minutes.
Booker is p. much a do-gooder through the whole plot. Comstock's and Booker's characters are also the extreme opposites of each other.
So why would Comstock needed her?
Which are all destroyed by a single alcoholic kwa soldier from 1912. So why would a professional, well-trained US army of 1984 have any problems?
Bro you shoot a fucking blimp with a rocket and it burns like oil fields. No amount of your pretentious "they have robots and spells!" (which they got how?) will break the simple laws of physics. One nuke and floating city is no more.
Which wasn't found until 1984 (when people were already to the moon) how?
And why would Elizabeth consciously destroy Kwa of her own will? (because she apparently summoned Booker and showed him what she did - which means it was her own will)
But you don't even know what science fiction is and what quantum physics are. As evidenced by the next quote.
Demons and dwarves are science fiction?
In 20 years? With 19th century tech?
Dude it's just a shitty fantasy for posers who want to think they enjoy a quality sci-fi when in fact it's just another shitty game plot where things don't make a slightest bit of sense. But they seem deep cuz there's plot twist every 5 minutes.
Heresiarch
Prophet
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- Mar 8, 2008
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- 1,451
Heresiarch oh please bro. Don't try to find something that isn't there. You sound like a Dear Esther fan.
Booker is p. much a do-gooder through the whole plot. Comstock's and Booker's characters are also the extreme opposites of each other.
So why would Comstock needed her?
Which are all destroyed by a single alcoholic kwa soldier from 1912. So why would a professional, well-trained US army of 1984 have any problems?
Bro you shoot a fucking blimp with a rocket and it burns like oil fields. No amount of your pretentious "they have robots and spells!" (which they got how?) will break the simple laws of physics. One nuke and floating city is no more.
Which wasn't found until 1984 (when people were already to the moon) how?
And why would Elizabeth consciously destroy Kwa of her own will? (because she apparently summoned Booker and showed him what she did - which means it was her own will)
But you don't even know what science fiction is and what quantum physics are. As evidenced by the next quote.
Demons and dwarves are science fiction?
In 20 years? With 19th century tech?
Dude it's just a shitty fantasy for posers who want to think they enjoy a quality sci-fi when in fact it's just another shitty game plot where things don't make a slightest bit of sense. But they seem deep cuz there's plot twist every 5 minutes.
Lol, typical Skyway.
Regarding the plot, Comstock needed her because he saw it from the tears of future that Lutece showed to him, in which he needs a daughter to inherent his plans and avenge on the world below (for whatever reason? Dunno, just typical terrorist/religion maniac psychology?) . Don't ask me "why won't he just choose a random girl but must go through all the trouble to kidnap the daughter of another self in another world", it's just because, you know, the future (revealed from the tears) showed him.
Why a single guy can demolish a whole army while professionals military squads can't? Well, the same question can be asked for our System Shock hacker/soldier, JC Denton/Adam Jensen, etc.
Why zeppelins can destroy New York and stuff, i.e. digging into realism. Just keep in mind that, if Booker can have energy shields, those zeppelins 70 years later may also have. They may even use for-zepplein Back To Senders vigors to absorb or destroy incoming missiles and shit. Yeah you can counter argue with F24 and nuclear missiles, I can counter argue with Columbia will drop Adv. Mechanized Patriots MK IV using laser miniguns to destroy the US bases beforehand, etc. Arguing this is really not going anywhere - the point is, in THIS game's setting, 1983's New York will lose to Columbia's superb technology and not to mention arial superiority. It's similar to how different Fallout's technology is set up so different compared to the real world (vacuum tube/transistors computers in 2077 wtf?). It's just the game background is designed as that, plain and simple.
Why would Elizabeth destroy NY? She's been brainwashed for years (if Booker didn't come to rescue), that's what. I dunno if you have played the game through - not seven times of course - but you can see how she became broken down of her mind in the later years late game, even so that she thinks humanity must be purged or something. Only due to her last bit of self consciousness could she bring Booker to the bad-future to give him the triumph card. How could she become brainwashed so easily? Well no, it's not easy actually. That's why they have used sick stuff like implants to help in turning her.
For "science fiction", don't act smart like I don't know what I'm talking about. It's a just an analogy - Vigors and quantum physics existing in steam punk scifi set in late 19th century is like demons and dwarves existing in historically accurate world with fantasy elements set in 15th century - they're all fictitious stuff. Besides, I can really argue against you that demons and dwarves CAN exist in science fictions...Doom? Hellgate London? Warhammer 40k! Eat that.
tl;dr 4 u
Come on, I know you love realistic shooters but there's no point complaining about unrealistic settings in a game with a...fictitious setting. Why can't you just drop down your hate for everything and embrace the nice story and cute, kawai, loveable Elizabeth of the preciously designed art that is called Bioshock Infinite? You need more love, lest you become another Comstock and plans to destroy the world (or maybe you're already planning to do so).
Horus
Arcane
Heresiarch
Prophet
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- 1,451
The Lutece's machine showed him those "futures". Lutece herself thought it's only a "probability" but Comstock, being the religion maniac he was, thought it as a "prophecy".
Comstock didn't really anticipated nor even know that the superpower comes from leaving her little finger in the own world. The source of the superpower was only mentioned in one of Lutece's voxophone. He abducted her just because the machine's tears showed him "YOU MUST GRAB HER TO PWN THE WORLD", so he just did so. Apparently everything was set in motion so that if Anna was grabbed, Booker would interfere, and would cause the leaving of her little finger behind.
Of course everything is as believable as how the authors write the scripts, Maybe in one of the multiverse Anna got split in half and died, maybe in another she went through the hold in a whole body thus no superpower for her, blah.
k-t
Novice
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 18
To be more precise, the reason abduction is the prophecy: "The Seed of the Prophet shall sit the throne and drown in flame the Mountains of Man". Comstock was sterile in his reality, so he decided to grab Anna (aka Elizabeth) who is technically his daughter from another reality, etc, etc.
aris
Arcane
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- Apr 27, 2012
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- 11,613
One big question remains for me though: What on earth was the motivation for the Lutece's for helping comstock get the girl the first time around? The second time around, it's explained: Because the brother realises that they have done a mistake and gives the sister an ultimate to put things back again.
Heresiarch
Prophet
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PS, my overall feeling of the game, not that it really matters but still:
- Shitty combat, too lethal for you and enemies way too much HP in higher difficulties, don't play in 1999 for you sanity sake
- Vigors are less fun to use compared to plasmids for unknown reasons
- Gears can bring some nice customization for your combat styles, some gears are way overpowered and cheap which is good for 1999 mode
- Enemy design is boring...you have normal goons that shoot stuff and are semi-tough, updated goons that shoot stuff and are tough, and about 4 kinds of hard hitters that shoot stuff/stuffies or sometimes slash/bash and are all super tough
- Weapons are...so so. Nothing exciting, not endgame superweapons even. Ammunition is a big issue in 1999 mode. Not because ammo is rare per se - you can buy it up to full CHEAPLY with vending machines which are EVERYWHERE - but because enemies are tough and numerous so you may go out of ammo in most big fights
- Exploration is limited, it gives you illusions that there are branches and side quests but are all essential small detours that take only a few minutes to finish
- The plot structure is clever, if you combine everything from the various custscenes, voxophones, and of course the ending sequences, you'll find the story is very well structured. IMO it's actually one of the plots beside PST, Dark Souls, Silent Hill 1 2 3 and Inception that made me *think*. Too bad, multiverse isn't really something fresh and innovative in today's fictitious works, so people like the Codexers may find it stupid or pretentious
- Elizabeth is hot/cute/kawaii/moe/all
- Shitty combat, too lethal for you and enemies way too much HP in higher difficulties, don't play in 1999 for you sanity sake
- Vigors are less fun to use compared to plasmids for unknown reasons
- Gears can bring some nice customization for your combat styles, some gears are way overpowered and cheap which is good for 1999 mode
- Enemy design is boring...you have normal goons that shoot stuff and are semi-tough, updated goons that shoot stuff and are tough, and about 4 kinds of hard hitters that shoot stuff/stuffies or sometimes slash/bash and are all super tough
- Weapons are...so so. Nothing exciting, not endgame superweapons even. Ammunition is a big issue in 1999 mode. Not because ammo is rare per se - you can buy it up to full CHEAPLY with vending machines which are EVERYWHERE - but because enemies are tough and numerous so you may go out of ammo in most big fights
- Exploration is limited, it gives you illusions that there are branches and side quests but are all essential small detours that take only a few minutes to finish
- The plot structure is clever, if you combine everything from the various custscenes, voxophones, and of course the ending sequences, you'll find the story is very well structured. IMO it's actually one of the plots beside PST, Dark Souls, Silent Hill 1 2 3 and Inception that made me *think*. Too bad, multiverse isn't really something fresh and innovative in today's fictitious works, so people like the Codexers may find it stupid or pretentious
- Elizabeth is hot/cute/kawaii/moe/all
dnf
Pedophile
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chestburster
Savant
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- Jul 2, 2012
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A bigger question would be: What on earth was the motivation for Lutece to help Comstock to build Columbia in the first place? Just because?
Isn't Lutece British judging from his accent? Why would he build a floating city to demonstrate American Exceptionalism?
RRRrrr
Arcane
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- Nov 6, 2011
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- 2,314
You are looking too much into it.
Heresiarch
Prophet
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- 1,451
Don't know if you're being /s...
Anyway yeah, I felt more attached to the game than BS1 (never played 2), because the story is more personal than BS1 and even SS1/2. If you play the game without a mind spoilt by the good old deep games then yes, the game story is okish for today standard.
aris
Arcane
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- 11,613
Shotgun definitely lack the oomph it should have, the machine gun and rifle simply wasn't too fun to play with, and the grenade launcher has to be the most pathetic thing ever. But I thought the hand cannon gave you an excellent sense of power, same with sniper rifle, mechanized patriot gun, the rocket launcher (when it's fully upgraded you can wreck mayhem with this weapon). And if songbird is not an endgame superweapon, I don't know what is
That's another valid point.
Regdar
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2011
- Messages
- 665
By the way, surprised no one mentioned how closely Elizabeth resembles some Disney characters. I can only assume this was intentional (stronger emotional response, maybe?).
http://www.gamespersecond.com/media/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-elizabeth-ai.jpg
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/pho...-Belle-disney-princess-32398654-5000-2813.jpg
I didn't mention this before, but probably the only thing this game did right was the pro-male tropes, like rescuing her from the tower, opening doors for her, "protecting" her etc. It was a clever marketing move as it elicits a higher level of emotional investment by playing on natural male instincts. As the game develops, though, Booker increasingly goes from being the "doer" and having the story respond to his actions, to, in the end, becoming a spectator of events unfolding around him with Elizabeth being the catalyst. This is too apparent to be coincidental but I can only guess as to Levine's motives for doing so.
http://www.gamespersecond.com/media/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-elizabeth-ai.jpg
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/pho...-Belle-disney-princess-32398654-5000-2813.jpg
I didn't mention this before, but probably the only thing this game did right was the pro-male tropes, like rescuing her from the tower, opening doors for her, "protecting" her etc. It was a clever marketing move as it elicits a higher level of emotional investment by playing on natural male instincts. As the game develops, though, Booker increasingly goes from being the "doer" and having the story respond to his actions, to, in the end, becoming a spectator of events unfolding around him with Elizabeth being the catalyst. This is too apparent to be coincidental but I can only guess as to Levine's motives for doing so.
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
i was totally uninterested in this game: too much talk and praise about some script which were brought as "the new frontier of entertainment, art and the whole humanity". stank like shit.
then i saw all those 10/10: it had to be shit, dragon age 2 all over again.
you people instead kept bashing it back and forth: it could be just classic kodex denial, nothing new, but let's give it a look.
then i watched that trailer, i thought it was sort of cool with big real 3d maps and such but nothing really new nor groundbreaking.
then i read that that trailer was based on all the coolest stuff the game was composed of and that most of the stuff was pulled from the final game.
so all the fuss is for a bunch of scripts and nonsensical* plot? really? seriously?
there's no end to the decline.
* it's what i call "the battiato effect": there's this italian singer who puts in his songs every "cultured sounding", archaic or needlessly complicated word he can find, it doesn't matter if they don't make any sense (and they don't). people listen to his songs, don't know half the words he's using and think "i don't understand what he's saying and i'm the smartest you can get: he must be truly a genius!" and then comes the praise.
then i saw all those 10/10: it had to be shit, dragon age 2 all over again.
you people instead kept bashing it back and forth: it could be just classic kodex denial, nothing new, but let's give it a look.
then i watched that trailer, i thought it was sort of cool with big real 3d maps and such but nothing really new nor groundbreaking.
then i read that that trailer was based on all the coolest stuff the game was composed of and that most of the stuff was pulled from the final game.
so all the fuss is for a bunch of scripts and nonsensical* plot? really? seriously?
there's no end to the decline.
* it's what i call "the battiato effect": there's this italian singer who puts in his songs every "cultured sounding", archaic or needlessly complicated word he can find, it doesn't matter if they don't make any sense (and they don't). people listen to his songs, don't know half the words he's using and think "i don't understand what he's saying and i'm the smartest you can get: he must be truly a genius!" and then comes the praise.
I don't think that is addressed in the game but two things spring to mind. First, Columbia was an official US funded project and they might have drafted her in a sense to make it work and maintain it. Secondly perhaps the unfettered by morality aspect appealed to her as a pure scientist.
Dexter
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2011
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- 15,655
I think people missed the point of me posting that Gameplay (from E3 2011) and saying lol @ teh comments.
Anyway, i'm like halfway through and so far it's worse than Bioshock, levels seem less open and less interactable/more linear with even less interactivity from vigors/plasmids with the level-design (aside from a few reachable places when you use the lightning thing).
Beginning was alright in the "rollecoaster through interactive story" kind of way, but I see it slowly degrading a lot into videogame logic. We need to get to point A, for that to happen we need to go to B and get object X, to get there we gotta go through C and D.
First it was "getting to the airship", for which Booker fought valiantly against hordes of formidable soldiers cause he needed a specific vigor.
Then you "need weapons" for some retarded reason because Booker can apparently not protect himself from a little girl, and instead of collecting those from the hundreds of people he killed he needs to get them from a specific man, which turns out to be held captive, then you find out he's dead, but no problem cause "parallel universe" and then you're sent to find his tools, cause he apparently lost his tools (or something) and I'm at that point.
You can gradually see it deteriorate into videogame logic to give you more reasons to fight against another horde of baddies. At least in Bioshock this seemed more natural, and a lot of it even seemed optional.
Anyway, i'm like halfway through and so far it's worse than Bioshock, levels seem less open and less interactable/more linear with even less interactivity from vigors/plasmids with the level-design (aside from a few reachable places when you use the lightning thing).
Beginning was alright in the "rollecoaster through interactive story" kind of way, but I see it slowly degrading a lot into videogame logic. We need to get to point A, for that to happen we need to go to B and get object X, to get there we gotta go through C and D.
First it was "getting to the airship", for which Booker fought valiantly against hordes of formidable soldiers cause he needed a specific vigor.
Then you "need weapons" for some retarded reason because Booker can apparently not protect himself from a little girl, and instead of collecting those from the hundreds of people he killed he needs to get them from a specific man, which turns out to be held captive, then you find out he's dead, but no problem cause "parallel universe" and then you're sent to find his tools, cause he apparently lost his tools (or something) and I'm at that point.
You can gradually see it deteriorate into videogame logic to give you more reasons to fight against another horde of baddies. At least in Bioshock this seemed more natural, and a lot of it even seemed optional.
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