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Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

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The Doomed Dominion
The only paradox story worth a flying shit is —All You Zombies—. This goddamned Steve Carrell Dark Crystal Mystic fucking LevineSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT


Everything is so easily extrapolated because as soon as they just casually toss off that "we use quantum mechanics" the whole goddamned cat may or may not be out of the box. Shoot guys. Shoot more guys. Run out of ammo trying to figure out if this is a gimmick boss or just really spongy. Hit F to give her th' ol' Stacey Keach Butterfly routine.
 
Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

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The twins were the best part of the game for me, story-wise.

Also 6 hours is insane. Took me 16.

Just spam crows and headshot with the carbine, and when you find the kill buff hat, the game is a cakewalk. I invested all of the infusions in to mana first, then shields. Also, I used a fully upgraded sniper on the Siren and had absolutely no trouble.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
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Messages
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New Vegas
Just spam crows and headshot with the carbine, and when you find the kill buff hat, the game is a cakewalk. I invested all of the infusions in to mana first, then shields. Also, I used a fully upgraded sniper on the Siren and had absolutely no trouble.

It didn't take me 16 hours because of difficulty.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
Just beat the game, and i've got to say, just because a plot is convoluted, doesn't make it good.
True, but you obviously did not get it:
The 2 "twins" have absolutely no role/place being in the story, other than being tryhard mysterious plot devices, which already have their role filled by Elizabeth.
Here's the first proof, because this is just false. After Elisabeth and Booker, they are probably the most important characters in the plot. The role of the twins in the story is not nearly as mysterious as for, say, Gman, and their roles and some of their motivations are amply detailed if you had paid attention to the audio diaries you could have found lying around. It's even pretty much spelled out to you at the end, how the twins were one of the main protagonists in what all the game revolves around: "bring us the girl and wipe away the debt", it amazes me that this escaped you. Because it must have, seeing that you think that they have no role in the story.
I'm also glad that I sailed the high sea's, because I beat it with 6 hours, in 1 sitting.
And here's (at least half) the explanation for why you didn't understand anything.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
9d9715cd94e05a96d5c8b46ea99327a5-bioshock-infinites-elizabeth-cosplay.jpg

What the hell, that isn't a velvet dress.

Man, your priorities are on the right place...:lol:
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
The 2 "twins" have absolutely no role/place being in the story, other than being tryhard mysterious plot devices, which already have their role filled by Elizabeth.

Without the twins, Colombia won't be built, Elizabeth wouldn't be brought to Comstock (by them), Elizabeth's power in the future wouldn't be revealed (by them), and most importantly Booker wouldn't be brought in (by them) to save the day, so the game wouldn't even exist.
 

Shadenuat

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Dec 9, 2011
Messages
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Location
Russia
And here's (at least half) the explanation for why you didn't understand anything.

The story may not be crap as a whole, if taken together from scraps of dialogue, all voxophones and foreshadowing. Not that I care. But it is crap because only a handful of people will be able to pay attention to a story in the way it's handled to you, when you play huehuehue linear shooter with no freedom, tons of action and plot exploding in your face with numerous cutscenes. Who in their sane mind will go around collecting diaries, when you are on a constant run from police/rebels/saving the chick? Who will listen to NPCs while game spawns monsters and zombies ("Yo Booker, I'm gonna tell you about the plot, but you'd probably get bored listening to it, so here's a few psychos and an automated Washington to kill to make things interesting!")? It's not a detective, there are no different endings, no consequences to actions, and thus there are no reasons for player to collect every lockpick and open every chest. You can use War and Peace for game's plot, but if your game is 15 hours shooter, don't expect people to like it.
Same as Bioshock 1, really. I remember listening to the diaries from that game on YouTube to understand what actually happened in the game. They were well done and I enjoyed listening to them. But is a story you have to listen to on a YouTube and read on Wikipedia later is a good story for a videogame?
:codexisfor:
 

Zewp

Arcane
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,594
Codex 2013
Oh, and this lockerbox looting shit needs to fucking end. It's pretty annoying walking into a room and having to open several boxes to ensure you get everything.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
And here's (at least half) the explanation for why you didn't understand anything.

The story may not be crap as a whole, if taken together from scraps of dialogue, all voxophones and foreshadowing. Not that I care. But it is crap because only a handful of people will be able to pay attention to a story in the way it's handled to you, when you play huehuehue linear shooter with no freedom
Well, PS:T is a huahue linear RPG with no freedom and crappy combat. Who in their right mind would go around talking to people and find out more about the world, right?
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
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Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The 2 "twins" have absolutely no role/place being in the story, other than being tryhard mysterious plot devices, which already have their role filled by Elizabeth.

Without the twins, Colombia won't be built, Elizabeth wouldn't be brought to Comstock (by them), Elizabeth's power in the future wouldn't be revealed (by them), and most importantly Booker wouldn't be brought in (by them) to save the day, so the game wouldn't even exist.
And the downside is..?
 

pocahaunted

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
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Location
Pyongyang, Best Korea
You just don't get it man, it's too deep. Too deep! The plot isn't contrived and convoluted, it's actually superior to PST!

I'll tell you why, friends, because there are always constants and variables, man... there's always a lighthouse, a man and a city. Deep.

When will we be getting the deconstruction brigade claiming this turd is a genius-level masterpiece? Can't wait for the decline.
 

Shadenuat

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Messages
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Russia
Well, PS:T is a huahue linear RPG with no freedom and crappy combat. Who in their right mind would go around talking to people and find out more about the world, right?

:hmmm:

I'll tell you why, friends, because there are always constants and variables, man... there's always a lighthouse, a man and a city. Deep.
:lol:
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
You just don't get it man, it's too deep. Too deep! The plot isn't contrived and convoluted, it's actually superior to PST!

I'll tell you why, friends, because there are always constants and variables, man... there's always a lighthouse, a man and a city. Deep.
Is that your best argument? To use sarcasm on a strawman?
 

pocahaunted

Arcane
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Messages
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Pyongyang, Best Korea
You just don't get it man, it's too deep. Too deep! The plot isn't contrived and convoluted, it's actually superior to PST!

I'll tell you why, friends, because there are always constants and variables, man... there's always a lighthouse, a man and a city. Deep.
Is that your best argument? To use sarcasm on a strawman?

What is your argument, exactly? You just claim that the game's plot is good and that if it's bad, so is PST's. The difference is simple, however, PST actually fleshes out the story consistently and provides a believable setting past the 15m mark. Furthermore, Bioinf's complexities are waved away by the mystical use of "tears". It's not that the plot isn't easy to grasp, rather it doesn't follow the game's actual narrative. As a result, it's contrived since it's shoved down your throat in the last 5m of gameplay. The fact that the twins/clones provide some hints for what's to come doesn't change the quality of the narrative one bit.

EDIT: It's not fucking deep at all, despite what the masses of reddit are claiming. There are multiple dimensions, great, and different choices can have different outcomes - too bad the game has neither, such that the story reads like a 14yo's attempt at scifi.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
Is that your best argument? To use sarcasm on a strawman?
Well, you reap what you sow.
What did I sow?
You just don't get it man, it's too deep. Too deep! The plot isn't contrived and convoluted, it's actually superior to PST!

I'll tell you why, friends, because there are always constants and variables, man... there's always a lighthouse, a man and a city. Deep.
Is that your best argument? To use sarcasm on a strawman?

What is your argument, exactly? You just claim that the game's plot is good and that if it's bad, so is PST's. The difference is simple, however, PST actually fleshes out the story consistently and provides a believable setting past the 15m mark. Furthermore, Bioinf's complexities are waved away by the mystical use of "tears". It's not that the plot isn't easy to grasp, rather it doesn't follow the game's actual narrative. As a result, it's contrived since it's shoved down your throat in the last 5m of gameplay. The fact that the twins/clones provide some hints for what's to come doesn't change the quality of the narrative one bit.

EDIT: It's not fucking deep at all, despite what the masses of reddit are claiming. There are multiple dimensions, great, and different choices can have different outcomes - too bad the game has neither, such that the story reads like a 14yo's attempt at scifi.
I never said it was deep, those are your words. I say, if you say that just because a game is linear, gives no reason to go exploring for clues about the world, then the same can be said about PS:T that is linear as well. I compared gameplay of PS:T to infinite, not the story.

As for PS:T there are three things you know past the 15 minute mark: You woke up from the dead for unknown reasons, there's a levitating talking skull with you, and you're in a room full of zombies. Yep, definitely much more believable than infinite's setting, and pretty much sets everything in stone right there. What defines a believable setting anyway?
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
As for PS:T there are three things you know past the 15 minute mark: You woke up from the dead for unknown reasons, there's a levitating talking skull with you, and you're in a room full of zombies. Yep, definitely much more believable than infinite's setting, and pretty much sets everything in stone right there. What defines a believable setting anyway?

lol that's getting overboard.

Trying to sway codex haters' opinion on a game is moot, so don't ever try it.

I still firmly believe Bioshock Infinite's plot is clever, just limited in its handling due to the gameplay and writing. What if Bioshock Infinite is written by MCA, while PST is handled by Irrational Games?

Now I'm imagining an awesome Planescape: Torment reboot, called Planescape: Torture.

It'll be FPS, you control The Nameless One, and it'll play like Dark Messiah, you can use big ass axe, or daggers, or magic. You can even execute fatalities with your melee weapons on enemies. Instead of Elizabeth, you'll have Annah, who'll handle lock picking and even throw you coins. What about health? Simple, you'll also have FFG follow you around, and when you're low on health, press F and she'll heal you.

The world design will be like PST, and instead of tears, sky lanes and hooks, you'll have Doors to interact with. You can use Doors to summon Tanar'ri to fight for you, you can use Doors to reveal health potions Blood Charms for healing, or use Doors to locate hidden places for lewts. In big arenas you can even use Doors to instantly teleport to higher places to bombard enemies with magic missiles from above.

Plots will also be handled brilliantly. Instead of PDA or Voxophones, you'll find Skins. Yes, SKINS. Once collected, press J and you'll hear the other TNO telling you their stories, with date to boot. Of course not everyone use skins as journals like TNO, so you'll also find Scrolls of other characters.

Gameplay will be more interesting than Bioshock and PST, thanks to a wide range of creatures to fight, especially bosses. Trias for example will fly around and cast Celestial Host on you, but instead of the dull way of rolling dices to save against it, you must actively dodge the attacks from the Deva, the Phoenix, the Solar, and the Gold Dragon! Fighting Ravel in her maze will be also very interesting, she'll summon those tree monsters to attack you while stay hidden, so you must be clever to find her and attack! Plot will be closely implemented with the gameplay as well, in the last 15 minutes you'll fight your 3 incarnations, one will be a powerful mage, the other a sneaky lethal thief, and the last one can cast both spells and hit hard.

The use of magic will also make the game more fun. With Mechanus Cannon for example you will summon a huge ass cannon and you need to manually aim it and it'll shoot a huge laserpewpew on whatever you want to demolish! Casting other spells will be mostly easy with just a right click (like casting Plasmids/Vigors), so yes, just like Skyrim, you can hack with your right handed axe while blowing shit up with your left handed spells!

The final battle with TTO will be most amazing ever, you will get your endgame weapon - Rune of Torment Torture - which will automatically recharge during the fight, once it's full you can Hold F on TTO to unleash EXTREME damage on him. During the fight you can also Hold F on the corpses of your companion to revive them as zombies spirits to fight for you.

OMG now I think of it, someone ought to make a Skyrim mod out of it. Or better yet, ask Irrational Games to make it. What about Bioshock: Torment?
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
What about QTEs? Will this game have QTEs? And an action-packed outro where you spend 99.9% of your time holding the Forward button?
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
hehe, Planescape: Torture sounds like a clear decline with respect to the original game, so I get your point. I don't know what that has to do with the first 15 minutes of PS:T. It still surprises me that people can write of the story in Bioshock: infinite as nonsense, while swallowing all the remarkable things that happen in PS:T with a man that is remarkably given immortality, infinite portals, the transcendent one born out of the consciousness of this man and the fortress of regrets that he built.

Not comparing stories of the two games, just traits of the story (they are thematically similar, both being about breaking endless cycles), and that they both have relatively simplistic gameplay.
 

pocahaunted

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
4,017
Location
Pyongyang, Best Korea
gaudaost said:
As for PS:T there are three things you know past the 15 minute mark: You woke up from the dead for unknown reasons, there's a levitating talking skull with you, and you're in a room full of zombies. Yep, definitely much more believable than infinite's setting, and pretty much sets everything in stone right there. What defines a believable setting anyway?

You pretty much ignored what I said, it's not about your initial knowledge, it's about how the narrative plays out. It's about how you interact with the setting and how it interacts with you. In Bioinf, there's barely any interaction, just a convoluted scripted sequence of events.

It's clear that both games start the player out with a fairly incomplete knowledge of the predicament they're in, that's besides the point. What makes Planescape's setting believable isn't the fact that it conforms to a set of realistic variables, but rather that, unlike Bioinf, the setting is fleshed out beyond the starting point. It doesn't devolve into a mindless on-rails shooter, with hordes being thrown at your just because. While there exist some sidequests in Bioinf which aim to reduce linear gameplay, they fail in their intent by barely moving you from the beaten path and by following exactly the same shoot-kill formula.

Even the game's two factions are ridiculously copypasta, there should be common traits between them, but having just a different paintjob makes it all seem vapid, you're ultimately fighting enemies because the game is a basic shooter - the setting just doesn't hold any water. It's the most simplistic form of gameplay they could've conjured, but copies had to be sold, right? There could've been other types of gameplay, that could have made the game feel more alive, instead everything feels tacked on.

In the end, the gameplay doesn't support the story, it's just an excuse to call it a game, and the setting doesn't support the gameplay (for example, the semi-interesting rails mechanic if placed in-doors, would've changed nothing). The fact that you're on a an airborne cityscape is meaningless, you often forget about it while waddling through the one-way path, which mostly focuses on buildings' interiors. What you can say about the plot is that it could have been interesting, since games often follow very linear and easy to extrapolate plots. This, however, doesn't change the fact that in the context of storytelling, it falls flat because of its convoluted delivery, which is shoehorned to fit a lazily executed game.
 

aris

Arcane
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Messages
11,613
gaudaost said:
As for PS:T there are three things you know past the 15 minute mark: You woke up from the dead for unknown reasons, there's a levitating talking skull with you, and you're in a room full of zombies. Yep, definitely much more believable than infinite's setting, and pretty much sets everything in stone right there. What defines a believable setting anyway?

You pretty much ignored what I said, it's not about your initial knowledge, it's about how the narrative plays out. It's about how you interact with the setting and how it interacts with you. In Bioinf, there's barely any interaction, just a convoluted scripted sequence of events.

It's clear that both games start the player out with a fairly incomplete knowledge of the predicament they're in, that's besides the point. What makes Planescape's setting believable isn't the fact that it conforms to a set of realistic variables, but rather that, unlike Bioinf, the setting is fleshed out beyond the starting point. It doesn't devolve into a mindless on-rails shooter, with hordes being thrown at your just because. While there exist some sidequests in Bioinf which aim to reduce linear gameplay, they fail in their intent by barely moving you from the beaten path and by following exactly the same shoot-kill formula.
o_O How is the setting in bioinf not fleshed out beyond the starting point? You'll have to explain that a lot better, what does it not having any side quests of grand importance have to do with it?
Even the game's two factions are ridiculously copypasta, there should be common traits between them, but having just a different paintjob makes it all seem vapid, you're ultimately fighting enemies because the game is a basic shooter - the setting just doesn't hold any water. It's the most simplistic form of gameplay they could've conjured, but copies had to be sold, right? There could've been other types of gameplay, that could have made the game feel more alive, instead everything feels tacked on.
They are "copypasta" intentionally; the game, instead of moralizing on racisms, shows that any faction that comes to power can become corrupt and oppressing, no mather their ideals. It seems like this point escaped you.
In the end, the gameplay doesn't support the story, it's just an excuse to call it a game, and the setting doesn't support the gameplay (for example, the semi-interesting rails mechanic if placed in-doors, would've changed nothing). The fact that you're on a an airborne cityscape is meaningless, you often forget about it while waddling through the one-way path, which mostly focuses on buildings' interiors. What you can say about the plot is that it could have been interesting, since games often follow very linear and easy to extrapolate plots. This, however, doesn't change the fact that in the context of storytelling, it falls flat because of its convoluted delivery, which is shoehorned to fit a lazily executed game.
How doesn't the gameplay support the story? It's a game about parallell universes, you use that story element vastly in the gameplay to drag strategic resources into your world, throughout the whole game. An Airborne cityscape is an interesting and fairly unique setting, you don't need more of an excuse. Furthermore, you are outside at least 50% of the time, I think more, not inside buildings. And again, how is the story more convolutedly delivered in bioinf with respect to PS:T?

If you mean by convoluted delivery, that it's not exposition heavy, then I agree with you, absolutely.
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
gaudaost said:
As for PS:T there are three things you know past the 15 minute mark: You woke up from the dead for unknown reasons, there's a levitating talking skull with you, and you're in a room full of zombies. Yep, definitely much more believable than infinite's setting, and pretty much sets everything in stone right there. What defines a believable setting anyway?

You pretty much ignored what I said, it's not about your initial knowledge, it's about how the narrative plays out. It's about how you interact with the setting and how it interacts with you. In Bioinf, there's barely any interaction, just a convoluted scripted sequence of events.

It's clear that both games start the player out with a fairly incomplete knowledge of the predicament they're in, that's besides the point. What makes Planescape's setting believable isn't the fact that it conforms to a set of realistic variables, but rather that, unlike Bioinf, the setting is fleshed out beyond the starting point. It doesn't devolve into a mindless on-rails shooter, with hordes being thrown at your just because. While there exist some sidequests in Bioinf which aim to reduce linear gameplay, they fail in their intent by barely moving you from the beaten path and by following exactly the same shoot-kill formula.

Even the game's two factions are ridiculously copypasta, there should be common traits between them, but having just a different paintjob makes it all seem vapid, you're ultimately fighting enemies because the game is a basic shooter - the setting just doesn't hold any water. It's the most simplistic form of gameplay they could've conjured, but copies had to be sold, right? There could've been other types of gameplay, that could have made the game feel more alive, instead everything feels tacked on.

In the end, the gameplay doesn't support the story, it's just an excuse to call it a game, and the setting doesn't support the gameplay (for example, the semi-interesting rails mechanic if placed in-doors, would've changed nothing). The fact that you're on a an airborne cityscape is meaningless, you often forget about it while waddling through the one-way path, which mostly focuses on buildings' interiors. What you can say about the plot is that it could have been interesting, since games often follow very linear and easy to extrapolate plots. This, however, doesn't change the fact that in the context of storytelling, it falls flat because of its convoluted delivery, which is shoehorned to fit a lazily executed game.

In short - potential wasted. For a game that puts heavy emphasis on multiverse and choice & consequences, there's not a single C&C for you to do at all. At least in Bioshock 1 there's a bad and not-so-good ending - as stupid as it was, they're still different endings.

Your mentioning of the two factions raised something interesting to think for me - the game would be so much more brilliant if some of the elements were handled by other developers that excelled at such parts. For example, imagine let CD Projekt to handle the faction war. And about Elizabeth, this may sound weird but I think Team Silent could really build something interesting and more interactive on her. Remember in Silent Hill 2, how you treat Maria when she's tagging along, can bring out completely different endings? What if in B:I, if you treat Elizabeth like a bitch, or keep doing bad things like killing innocent people or staring at her breast or something, will make her hate you in the end and give you a bad ending? What if the "truth" of the game - you being her father - will be never revealed clearly, unless you did things well and through (which mostly requires you to replay the game with different choices)?

These elements are what made games like Deus Ex, Dark Souls, Silent Hill, PST etc despite that you can argue their plot isn't that clever compared to B:I, were actually more interesting to play through more than once - because every new game would not only make you understand the world better, but also give you a chance to actively make the plot play out better - and making the story more attached to the gameplay.

To stretch this discussion even further, B:I once again proves how western game developers really aren't into "multiple interesting branched gameplay leading to multiple meaningful endings" compared to the Japanese. Even hentai game developers have made some extremely well written and thought inducing hgames in the past that have time travel and/or multiverse as major plot elements.
 

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