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Blackspace!

What do you think about Blackspace?

  • Pretty cool. Smarten it up, add loads more shit and I'd pay $5 for it.

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • It's good for what it is.

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Meh. It was fun for 5 mins.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Blackspace?

    Votes: 5 50.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
denizsi said:
LOL, this game sucks. And I thought the Codexers didn't like social networking sites like facebook and social networking games like Farmville and yet everybody is playing this shit? TEH EYE-RONNIE! Have fun being guinea pigs for an up and coming facebook game. Farmville in space! I'm sure you will all hate it the same once it makes it there.

I voted "good for what it is" option for sarcasm, because without at least functional duel system where two players can agree to settle their differences in a turn-based grid with aimed shots and complex combat mechanics, I can't see the point of grinding just for the sake of it through the rest of the game, even if it came as grinding in a exploiting, game-breaking way.

tl;dr I got bored like I always do with multiplayer games lacking in combat mechanics.

:M
 

SoupNazi

Guest
Well it's the first multiplayer game (aside from TF2) that I'm not terribly bad at :(
 

SoupNazi

Guest
Well it used to be (mobility/size)-size + bonus from extra energy
 

SoupNazi

Guest
If anyone has the exact formula for offensive/defensive rating, I can add that to my nifty little .xls in which you just add the amount of components you use and it throws up the stats of your ship. As of now, these two stats are approximate.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
Nope, because my previous ship had a rating of 452/124 while having a total of 4110 in damage (468+423+3219) and a total of 1050 in defense (60+0+990).

This formula only applies for hull defense (if you have 0+0+110, your defense rating will be 11) but if you have the other stats it changes slightly. So while it's good for an approximation, it's not exact.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
So I thought you couldn't actually have a complete game over moment, but you can:

Clipboard04-3.jpg


:(
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
There, there. Were you travelling to sell hulls? Otherwise, wtf is $6223? I'll give you $10B for a jump start to skip most of the grind but you must become my slave until you can buy your freedom back at $100B.
 

SoupNazi

Guest
The ship was destroyed (yet again) while already having very little money. And while I appreciate the offer, I don't think there's currently any way to transfer money.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
Yeah but DU can think of something once there's demand. Being a slave would of course entail +$50B from your account to be automatically transferred to me once you make $75B, in two installments totalling $100B.

Really, though, this is such a great suggestion. Isn't it? Why, of course it is! You strike a deal with a player to lend them money with a few conditions both parties confirm. Why is this good? This will promote more combat. More bankrupt players = more money brokering. Hear me, DU!

Here's more: once you sell yourself into enslavement, your status will be reflected on your ship name, maybe with a sign or additional text, eg.: SoupNazi*, SoupNazi (slave to: villain of the story) and for those who own slaves, the number of slaves they own should also be reflected on their name, eg. villain of the story (owns 3 slaves). Finally, there could be a way to win somebody else's slaves or to make him lose his ownership but I don't know how. Ship getting destroyed would be too cheap.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
BTW:

Equipment Sales Price Advisory1.22 @ 12:36:05

The Union of 2nd-Hand Equipment Sales has issued a general advisory to their Members recommending that prices paid for used Equipment be reduced from the current standard of half-cost, to a third of cost. The change has been recommended due to large stock piles of excess 2nd-Hand Hulls
.

:x
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
If a money transfer system is put into place, I will provide $1B grants (not loans) to promising new players. I will also reimburse players for any monetary losses due to bugs. This is all part of my Friend-Ship Initiative. My only goal is to make the galaxy safe for hugs. :love:

Here are some ideas on combat and new features:

Tactical combat as per Cassidy's suggestion could be pretty great. The bare bones of a Master of Orion 2-style system could probably be implemented for PvE without a ridiculous amount of effort. The needed new features would be:

1. Tactical arena
2. A variety of weapons, with an effective range stat for each and some simple effects at the start to make things interesting (weapons that drain action points or affect power, maybe a reload time stat, etc.)
3. Different effects available at different ranges.

The exchange of fire is already in place; you could use hourly thrust (or the mobility mechanism) to determine action points.

Giving the computer-controlled opponent multiple ships in some fights could make for additional variety, since the tactical depth of 1v1 combat is sort of limited by nature. Letting players control multiple ships on the tactical map could also work, at some future point, although that's substantially more complicated, since it's prone to exploits by the wealthy.

Getting a PvP system would be significantly more of a pain, because turn-based PvP is generally hard to implement well. But that bridge can be crossed when you come to it.

I still think that fleets of NPC enemies (possible to be fought by midrange ships, i.e. not a swarm of Death Stars) would be the best feature for player interest, as well as being easy to add (since the functionality is more or less already coded). Maybe set them to continuously spawn every X hours and head for a targeted system? (The one in the galactic northwest seems good.) And players could choose to either fight off the space invaders or take the total bastard option and ambush the defenders.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,547
A Lesson in Combat

Good morning, welcome to today's discussion. This discussion session has been organised after we received some questions about mobility and combat. Allow me now the opportunity to answer those questions in this public forum. We hope this session might better enable Captains to understand how combat works and give them the edge when it comes to fighting each other; Stations or strange and unknown super-sized cubes carrying lethal Death Rays.

Question #1 said:
1.) Do ships have some mobility stat even without thrusters?
The best way to understand mobility is to imagine two vessels meeting each other in space. The first, a small Size 1 Fighter with only a single pair of blasters to account for. His opponent, a Size 500 Behemoth blistering with an array of lethal weaponry ready to rain down fire and brimstone on all who come before it. The first thing to know is how fast each vessel can travel. Speed is important, as a fast ship is obviously much more agile and able to manoeuver into an appropriate firing position than a slow ship. An important thing to understand too, is that a small vessel will be able to accelerate to its maximum speed much faster than a larger ship would, enabling it to rapidly change direction at considerable speed - where-as its larger companion would take some time to reach its maximum velocity (depending of course, on the larger ships' Engines), making it much less able to manoeuver quickly.

Thus, the first step we do in ascertaining a vessel's mobility in combat is to divide its total available thrust by its size. This will give us each ship's acceleration factor. Thankfully, this statistic is already well-known to all ship captains as Thrust per hour or T/ph (NOTE: We advise with some caution that this is merely a simple explanation. As experienced Captains would be aware, there are other factors which come into play when determining a ship's total T/ph, such as whether its engines have been over-clocked and the known diminishing thrust factor larger ships have - which I will leave to another discussion).

Now for our example, let us say our Small Fighter is able to move at 30 T/ph while our Behemoth can only muster a meagre 10 T/ph. Now that we have the speed of each vessel, we need to understand how this comes into play in combat. For that, imagine each ship moving and dodging, trying to out-manoeuver its opponent. While the Fighter is 3 times faster than the Behemoth, we must not under-estimate the Behemoths own ability to move. Therefore, it's best to think in terms of the total speed available which in this case is 40 T/ph - 75% of which belongs to our Fighter and 25% of which belongs to our Behemoth. This is an important concept to grasp as if - for example - our Behemoth was able to move at the same speed as the Fighter, then in terms of speed both opponents would be evenly matched (with each having 50% of the available speed).

Simply put, if a ship is twice as fast as its opponent (with all other factors being equally mathced) it has been observed that it will hit 2/3 of the time. Like-wise if a vessel is half the speed of its opponent, it will only hit about 1/3 of the time. As has been witnessed in combat, this speed differential can be used by small fighters to deadly effect, as their increased speed allows them to target vital ship components more easily, causing more critical damage.

However, if we're talking about "ships without thrusters" than what we're really talking about is size (It should of course be noted that a ship without thrusters has no basic "mobility" in and of itself but that doesn't mean it will be easy to hit)...

Question #2 said:
2.) How important is ship size?
In a word: Very! Now that we understand speed, the next thing to take into consideration is ship size itself. Our aforementioned Behemoth may have many guns but even the simple observer would note that at least half of them will be on the wrong side of the ship at any given time - and thus completely unable to cause any damage to their intended target. This is compounded as the size differentiation between combatants increases. Our small Size 1 Fighter in this example would only be in range of very few weapons at any given time. Combat experienced Captains would know that these weapons that are outside of range don't actually fire (as doing so would be both a complete waste of time and ammunition) - but they are still recorded as a 'MISS!' in the ships' computer system (NOTE: It must be stated that of course, projectile weapons such as missiles, rockets and torpedos will always fire - given their ability to manoeuver and hit targets that would otherwise be unreachable). Finally, it is of course quite obvious that a larger target is considerably easier to hit than a smaller one and this plays a significant factor in combat.

Thankfully, it has been observed that size works in much the same way as speed. That is to say, if both ships are the same size (with all other factors being equal) then either ship will have a 50% chance to hit. If one ship is twice as big as the other, then once again we find that statistically, they have a 33% chance to hit the smaller ship. This means that even a massive ship will have a reasonable chance to hit a much smaller Fighter. The best way of explaining this is by saying that while you may be a smaller target, there's a lot more enemy ship for you to dodge.

In the case of our Fighter though, we find a large size differential between the two vessels. At 500 times larger than the Fighter, the Behemoth presents a considerable target while the Fighter is almost miniscule by comparison. In this instance the Behemoth will find it very difficult to hit the Fighter, while the Fighter will be able to blast away. Obviously though, the Behemoth will have a great deal number of guns more than the Fighter which will increase its chances to hit during any given combat pass. The other factor to take into consideration at this stage is that the Fighter is likely to have only a single set of Blasters which will cause very little damage to the Behemoth. In this instance, while it may find it difficult to hit, the Behemoth will find:
  • Because its guns are considerably larger and much more powerful, when they do hit, they'll most likely vapourise the Fighter in a single blow.
  • It's not like the Fighter will be causing much damage anyway; the Behemoth will most likely shrug off its pathetic attacks.
The final consideration then, is the mobility of the weapons' systems themselves, which leads us into our next question.

Question #3 said:
3.) I notice some weapons have a mobility factor, what does it mean?
If only speed and size were taken into consideration, then our Fighter would have a significant advantage over the Behemoth. In fact a fleet of smaller Fighters equipped with appropriate weapons would pose a significant risk to an overly large Battle Station. Recognising this, manufacturers began developing turret systems. These systems are often quite large and so will only fit on larger vessels. They also commonly require a lot of power to drive their motors at the rapid speeds required to keep up with faster and more nimble vessels. As such, they sacrifice damage potential for accuracy. When fighting small Fighters this isn't a problem as even a lower damaging Turret system can one-hit most small Fighters. However, it does pose a risk if the enemy is a heavily armoured combatant of approximately the same size who's decided to out-fit their ship with the heaviest weaponry available. How Captains choose to balance Turrets with Capital Weapons is a decision for them to make.

What we care about, is what the weapons' mobility means. Well, thanks to modern quantum computing, many manufacturers are able to offer weapons with advanced tracking capabilities. If we can believe their designers, these weapons provide "guaranteed hit rates" - in some cases of up to 50% for some of the more advanced turret systems. Given that, it's easiest to think of Weapon Mobility as a "base" to hit chance, upon which the other factors of speed and size (as outlined above) will build accordingly. This means a large, immobile Station loaded with mobile weapons systems is a much scarier threat to a small Fighter, than an equivalent Station loaded with low mobility - but high damage - weapons.

Of course, we should also briefly mention here that Targetting Computers and similar Equipment will also increase your weapons' mobility rating.

Question #4 said:
4.) So what then, is ship mobility?
Unlike Thrust which allows you to move through space, mobility only affects your ability to out-manoeuver your opponent during combat. In many ways it works much the same as Thrust - though it does have quite a few unique quirks (which for time reasons, we won't go into today). Essentially, your mobility is increased by purchasing equipment such as Thrusters, Boosters or advanced Navigation Equipment which allows you to change course rapidly. Your mobility is then taken into consideration when fighting another vessel. As the opponent vessel will also have some mobility (depending on their equipment purchases) it boils down to: He who has higher the mobility, has the greater advantage.

Captains should keep in mind however, that all other factors should be taken into consideration when determining your final chance to hit. We can however, express how these factors come into play together with the following equation:
  • Mobility of the Weapon you're Firing + (((Your Size vs Their Size) + (Your T/ph vs Their T/ph) + (Your Mobility vs Their Mobility)) / 3)
This means that with high mobility weapons, it is possible to achieve a to hit chance greater than 100%. That of course would effectively guarantee a critical hit every time (assuming the weapon is capable of delivering critical hits) but we will leave the ins and outs of weapons themselves and the damage they cause for another discussion.

Hopefully this session has helped give Captains a better idea of combat and allows them to design ships appropriately. As some final take away advice, the most important factor is not how high your T/ph, mobility or the size of your ship is in and of itself. What matters most is how your ship matches up against the opponent you're fighting.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
Sitra Achara said:
I humbly request a method of fast travel (e.g. specify coordinates and sail away).

Install Chrome. Once undocked, spam clicks as fast as you can. Every click counts and voila! You're at your destination in a second.

But yes, fast travel provided you had to plot it cell by cell and auto-attack option otherwise it would largely negate what little combat there is.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
Advisory: At the moment, resale hull prices are determined using the base price for a size 0 ship, meaning that unless you're tiny, selling them is basically throwing them away for no compensation. DU knows about this and mentioned plans to adjust pricing at some point; until then, I'd discourage refitting any ships by selling off hulls.
 

Scott Pakin

Novice
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
4
Re. size, in the context of Battleship vs. Fighter,

If I understand correctly, it's not that the Battleship's weapons have a reduced chance to hit, but rather that only part of the weapons fire in the first place - right? (excluding missiles)

Also, a suggestion/request - how about a training zone, where combat may be tested non-lethally? (PvP or PvC)
 

SoupNazi

Guest
It's not exactly +remaining power. It's just like, +10% if you got 200pu of extra power, or something along those lines.
 

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