Bros, New Vegas is painful

[ImmoralMechanic]

My opinion on the whole thing's initial concept still stands, though. It'd certainly be an interesting question to either or both of them.

What originally inspired the devs is kind of irrelevant, isn't it? It's what they did with it, which was to build a faction explicitly modeled on Imperial-era Rome, where an authoritarian-military state brings peace and stability through forced assimilation using brutal but effective methods.

Did you actually think the founders and members of Caesar's Legion took their inspiration from literature that's all but been destroyed?

I'm saying where would such an idea come from in a game primarily focused around the U.S. Southwest/Mohave region other than from Caesar's Palace?

Vault wiki says the inspiration (in universe) was NV-Caesar coming across copies of Gibbon's Decline and Fall and Julius Caesar's Comentarii. I guess this must be from the Joshua Graham DLC I haven't played yet.

 

[Carrion]

Vault wiki says the inspiration (in universe) was NV-Caesar coming across copies of Gibbon's Decline and Fall and Julius Caesar's Comentarii. I guess this must be from the Joshua Graham DLC I haven't played yet.

When speaking with Caesar he does explain that the inspiration indeed came from history books. The thing is that his interpretation of history is often rather tenuous and occasionally just plain wrong. You could say that Caesar's Legion are quite similar to The Kings on that department.

 

[JarlFrank]

They did make the legion a copy of ancient Roman society. You want it like Roman society, only more liberal? Then it's not like the Roman society, hell, its not like any society. The people lived in Roman society because it was safer than not being part of the Roman society. They didn't expect everyone to be equal, if they did, slaves wouldn't really fit in.

No. No, they didn't make the CL as a copy of the Roman society. The ancient Romans, both in the republican and in the imperial age, had extensive citizen rights, pretty much stole every technology they could and improved it - especially weapons technologies -, and while women were mostly expected to stay at home and get kids, they weren't repressed or seen as lowly as in the CL.

What the CL does instead of representing Roman society is to take the idea of the Roman military structure, expand it on all of society including civilian life, and pretty much overusing the brutal parts of the system and misinterpreting most of the source material. Sure, it's kinda similar to the Roman military - but even more brutal and remorseless than the Roman military was.

This is, however, done on purpose: Caesar takes a concept that worked in history, and expands upon it to fit the needs of the current post-apocalyptic society. Back then, there was civilization and economic prosperity. Now, there are scattered tribes and everything's pretty much shit, so he takes the doctrines of discipline from the Roman system and implements them in all of society, not only the military, in order to fix things and make it all work. He basically emulates the measures the Romans took in the most dire situations - in rebellions, with undisciplined armies, when trying to crush a dangerous enemy - and keeps them up to prevent a loss of discipline and a fallback to anarchy.

 

[King Crispy]

Then I'll re-state that it's an incredible coincidence. In fact, a ridiculous one if uncounted.

 

[racofer]

It feels good to play a new Fallout game without retarded BOS, REAL Super Mutants and other interesting factions.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Randum look? Those look like normal clothes for a farmer (+ goggles). Lily leads a calm life, doesn't her? There's no reason for her to wear armor forever. I understand that her lolrandum schtick with her invisible friend could be tiresome for those who'd want to see a more serious nightkin companion, but I found it funny.

And I don't remember anything wrong with Fawkes, apart from the "lolno, it's your destiny" he gives you if you ask him to enter the radioactive chamber (pre-Broken Steel - with BS on, he just goes "Sure"). He was more or less unkillable, but that's it.

 

[Crichton]

The only problem I had with Lilly (outside of the voice-acting) was the thing FO:NV inherited from FO3, that FEV-infected females become phenotypically male. Although there's no logical reason why this can't be true, it's just weird and I never liked it. It's particularly odd when you think about the master's stated reason for creating all these supermutants in the first place. You'd think that even if he didn't do a rigorous study of their fertility, he'd notice that female supermutants lost all secondary sex characteristics.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The Master doesn't strike me as somebody that would notice it ("Hey. That subject has no titties. Titties! Titties!"). And at least it keeps people (modders) from getting funny ideas about supermutants.

Spoiler

I hope

 

[Radisshu]

The only problem I had with Lilly (outside of the voice-acting) was the thing FO:NV inherited from FO3, that FEV-infected females become phenotypically male. Although there's no logical reason why this can't be true, it's just weird and I never liked it. It's particularly odd when you think about the master's stated reason for creating all these supermutants in the first place. You'd think that even if he didn't do a rigorous study of their fertility, he'd notice that female supermutants lost all secondary sex characteristics.

Uh, of course they look "male", their muscles mass has grown ridiculously. Did you expect their breasts to get bigger as well? Or what?

 

[thursdayschild]

Yaweh, but I hate when people get caught up in stupid shit like what is a "real" super mutant in some made up game universe, then ignore the thousand glaring flaws in the rest of the game. People like you deserve fallout 3.

Suck it, bitches.

In fact it's the only semicool thing in all of fallout 3 if I had to choose something. Giant guys, cool. Not like I did much talking to the guys in the last few games.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I actually found Lily a rather touching companion, even with the humour. It was a really well-made decision when you had to tell her what to do with her medicine.

 

[Radisshu]

Yeah, so she was kind of on the "lulzy" side, but on the other hand she actually made sense within the setting, since Super Mutants are ordinary people who were dipped into vats. I kind of like the demented idea of a kind old lady becoming a schizophrenic nightkin as well.

 

[Radisshu]

Randum look? Those look like normal clothes for a farmer (+ goggles). Lily leads a calm life, doesn't her? There's no reason for her to wear armor forever. I understand that her lolrandum schtick with her invisible friend could be tiresome for those who'd want to see a more serious nightkin companion, but I found it funny.

And I don't remember anything wrong with Fawkes, apart from the "lolno, it's your destiny" he gives you if you ask him to enter the radioactive chamber (pre-Broken Steel - with BS on, he just goes "Sure"). He was more or less unkillable, but that's it.

Lily (lolsupermutantgranny) and Tabitha (lolsupermutanttranny) are the only super mutants/nightkin in the entire series whose madness causes them to dress like that AFAIK. It seems pretty obvious Bethsidian went with that look because they thought it was teh funniez..

What? Tabitha used to be a woman, and tries to look more feminine. Lily just wears what she used to. They're not caused to dress like that by their madness.

 

[aron searle]

I can't stand those fucking lip braces.

Didn't just one mutant in FO1 have them, a retarded one.

Now it's standard?

 

[JaySn]

I can't stand those fucking lip braces.

Didn't just one mutant in FO1 have them, a retarded one.

Now it's standard?

Why slightly alter one model when you can just change it's color?

 

[Serious_Business]

Classic rpg codex thread. I didn't know people still were gloriously smart enough to care about shit making "sense" in their games, it's so great to be a rational animal, I suggest we all start an objectivist sect or something funny like that

Here's my take on the bullshit that doesn't make sense in New vegas or your very rational life (notice the lack of other options) :

 

[villain of the story]

What's everyone's problem with The Strip being a theme park ride? Of course it is, repaired and rebuilt after the war to be so on purpose, to be an attraction center for the folks from all around the wasteland where they can feel what it must have felt like not to live in a wasteland. They are selling an illusion and making money at it which is serving their (ok, House's) own self-interests. Perhaps execution isn't what it could be, what with the rather low population of visitors but I find the idea a fantastic one. A place of respite and dreams in the midst of a shit-ridden world that's becoming a horror story by the day.

Nellis airport, on the other hand, I do really find stupid. In particular, their obsession with explosions and flying a bomber to bomb the shit out of every living thing out there.

Also, ED123, you are disturbed.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The only problem I had with Lilly (outside of the voice-acting) was the thing FO:NV inherited from FO3, that FEV-infected females become phenotypically male. Although there's no logical reason why this can't be true, it's just weird and I never liked it. It's particularly odd when you think about the master's stated reason for creating all these supermutants in the first place. You'd think that even if he didn't do a rigorous study of their fertility, he'd notice that female supermutants lost all secondary sex characteristics.

Uh, of course they look "male", their muscles mass has grown ridiculously. Did you expect their breasts to get bigger as well? Or what?

 

[Delirius]

Retard AI is enough to make NV a fucking travesty. Some long ranged rifle + sneak = the game is a joke.

But have fun with doing shitty errand quests (thanks to compass and lack of other directions every quest in the whole game is a damn errand). In return it might be mentioned in the radio or some random NPC who should have no idea about it will comment on it. C&C amirite?

It plays like shit and looks like shit. But retards here will keep on gloryfying it because "its more Fallout than Fallout 3". Well fuck me... I didnt know its such an achievement.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Retard AI is enough to make NV a fucking travesty. Some long ranged rifle + sneak = the game is a joke.

Retard AI is a staple of Fallout.

What fucked up is that Fallout AI didn't know how to camp and wait reinforcement, and scenario wans't destructive. It had a single-minded willingness to kills its enemies, so when the player went into cover, it promptly ignored the player's NPCs and instead ran to reach the player and attack him.

 

[JaySn]

Cruisin' along a bridge in Fallout 3, I found myself in combat mode, only I couldn't see any creatures around me. So, I tried popping into Vats. Nothing.

*SPAT* Two raiders plunge from the bridge, directly on top of me, dying in the process.

Great AI.

Current iteration (New Vegas/Fallout 3) works the same way as enemies in Fallout 1 and 2: They charge your ass and try to run if they get their ass whooped.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I think Gamebryo AI is WORSE than the original Fallouts' AI.

It is. AI is fucking retard when you stand on a rock: melee foes run around like retards, while ranged enemies will run straight at you like morans. The Gamebyro engine is shit for the most part.

 

[Radisshu]

I can't stand those fucking lip braces.

Didn't just one mutant in FO1 have them, a retarded one.

Now it's standard?

Both mutant talking heads in FO had the lip braces, the retarded one and the intelligent one:

 

[Comrade Goby]

I wish Caeser's Legion had better development instead of lolevil but I still sided with them.

Although all this bitching about NCR and CL, what about the two best options in the game?

Yes Man and House?

House is a super genius who saved Vegas and can help restore the old world. While YM gives your character the possibility to shape NV as you want it to be shaped (story wise after the game)

 

[TNO]

Agreed that CL was too much lolevil, which is a shame, as it hinted at the good bits of a ruthless militaristic state. Yes Man and House options were pretty good.