Cain and Boyarsky stream Fallout

[Fairfax]

Didn’t I just see an ad on one of these threads where Interplay called it something like a Diablo style action RPG?

They didn't call it that in ads, but used quotes with the comparison:

You must be thinking of this Chris Parker quote:

Chris Parker: Icewind Dale is a hybrid of the high action CRPGs like Diablo and the story intense CRPGs like Torment. We are making a game where the story is compelling, but not overly intense, and where the majority of the obstacles you encounter are combat oriented. Our goal is to create a CRPG that is a little more 'old-school', where you spend your time fighting or licking your wounds. The majority of gameplay revolves around character advancement, item acquisition, defeating the next set of opponents, and getting the next piece of the story that will lead you to your overall goal.

 

[toro]

Tim and Leonard playing Fallout sounds interesting.

+1

Edit: Chris Avellone They are making fun of you!

Edit 2: Fuck this stream. Boyarsky is alright but Cain is senile ...

 

[SlumLord]

Question: why do so many people credit Cain as the 'father' of Fallout? The dude made an engine. Everything we love about Fallout -- the locations, the lore, the C&C, the aesthetics, the atmosphere -- was put in by other designers, artists, and writers. Especially in the sequel, which one can argue expanded the world, and nudged it from a simple Road Warrior pastiche to a more defined IP with its own unique setting.

I've watched most of Cain's presentations and read a fuckton of his interviews over the years, but nowhere does he mention that he had an overwhelmingly influential part in shaping anything except the game's engine (unlike Avellone, who pretty much made PS:T what it is). Everybody's all over Cain's dick any time he opens his mouth about Fallout. Not even the franchise name was his idea (it was Fargo who came up with it). The PipBoy mascot and perk system were implemented by other devs as well (can't recall their names, atm).

The fuck did Cain do for Fallout except coding a shitty isometric engine? Not even trying to start a flame war, just genuinely interested.

 

[Kalin]

Fallout 2 is shit.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

perk system

I seem to recall that was Fargo as well.

 

[Roguey]

Question: why do so many people credit Cain as the 'father' of Fallout? The dude made an engine. Everything we love about Fallout -- the locations, the lore, the C&C, the aesthetics, the atmosphere -- was put in by other designers, artists, and writers. Especially in the sequel, which one can argue expanded the world, and nudged it from a simple Road Warrior pastiche to a more defined IP with its own unique setting.

I've watched most of Cain's presentations and read a fuckton of his interviews over the years, but nowhere does he mention that he had an overwhelmingly influential part in shaping anything except the game's engine (unlike Avellone, who pretty much made PS:T what it is). Everybody's all over Cain's dick any time he opens his mouth about Fallout. Not even the franchise name was his idea (it was Fargo who came up with it). The PipBoy mascot and perk system were implemented by other devs as well (can't recall their names, atm).

The fuck did Cain do for Fallout except coding a shitty isometric engine? Not even trying to start a flame war, just genuinely interested.

It was his project. He was the only member of the team for the first six months, then for the following six months it was him, Leonard, and Jason.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Tim Cain is the grandfather, Todd Howard is the father and Josh Sawyer is the cool uncle

 

[SlumLord]

It was his project. He was the only member of the team for the first six months, then for the following six months it was him, Leonard, and Jason.

I know, but that just reinforces what I said: he coded the engine (or at least the majority of it). Creative vision and asset creation had nothing to do with him. He did some design work fleshing out the world, but it was generalist stuff. And you can argue that Fallout didn't come into its own until the sequel, which greatly expanded the IP.

I like Tim, he's one of the oldfag CRPG devs and props to him for the work he did with Troika. I just don't think people should worship him as much as they do, because his creative input (apart from the technical aspect) was close to nil.

 

[RNGsus]

I just don't think people should worship him as much as they do...

No, they should not worship him at all. If anybody worships anybody but Christ Jesus, King of Man then they are blasphemers and we must purge them in the fires of inquisition.

 

[LESS T_T]

Todd Howard is the father

Abusive stepfather, more like.

 

[Roguey]

I know, but that just reinforces what I said: he coded the engine (or at least the majority of it). Creative vision and asset creation had nothing to do with him. He did some design work fleshing out the world, but it was generalist stuff. And you can argue that Fallout didn't come into its own until the sequel, which greatly expanded the IP.

I like Tim, he's one of the oldfag CRPG devs and props to him for the work he did with Troika. I just don't think people should worship him as much as they do, because his creative input (apart from the technical aspect) was close to nil.

Tim was the producer and equivalent of project director; Fargo treated him as such.

 

[SlumLord]

One can be a project lead or producer without actively contributing to content. My original point was that Cain isn't the one responsible for what makes Fallout 'Fallout'.

It's like saying Sawyer made Pillars, when all he did was dick around with numbers and percentiles as if the project was a MOBA. For better or worse, Josh had little creative influence on PoE (except writing Pallegina).

Cain's the same. People ride his dick, but everything special about Fallout was the work of other people (writers, artists, sound designers, etc.). Hopefully this new project of his will rekindle my faith in the man, but somehow I doubt it.


EDIT - Here, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5IzHhAdi4

It basically boils down to 'I made an engine'. He says it himself that he wasn't responsible for the game's name, or SPECIAL acronym, or VaultBoy, or perk system... and then writing/art/design was, obviously, done by other people as well since Tim was on programming/producer duties.

Again, I'm not shitting on him -- I respect the guy -- but he's as much 'Fallout' as Todd was 'Morrowind'.

 

[Paul_cz]

I am watching this and jesus christ it is basically a practice session in screaming internally.

I love these guys and what they created but the ineptitude is heartbreakingly mindblowing :D

 

[Paul_cz]

Oh wow 12 completionist playthroughs and I never knew about that hunting rifle in vault 15. Always just got the jacket and submachine gun. Whoa /neo

 

[FeelTheRads]

You have to consider that besides the possibility that they just suck at games, they could very well be tainted by popamole. Nobody is immune.
For example, for some time the only adventure games I played were new ones (playing them with the woman who is also popamole) and when I recently got to some old ones that I have on my backlog I kept slamming the space-key like a retard to show the hotspots.
I'm telling you, the popamole disease is dangerous and contagious.

 

[J_C]

It's like saying Sawyer made Pillars, when all he did was dick around with numbers and percentiles as if the project was a MOBA. For better or worse, Josh had little creative influence on PoE (except writing Pallegina).

He came up with the world, the lore, the locations, and the game's system. Of course he didn't flash out every detail, but he created the gist of it. And then of course there were designers and writers who put more detail into that. That doesn't mean that Josh didn't have a creative input in the game. The same with Cain. So your comparison is way off.

 

[ArchAngel]

You have to consider that besides the possibility that they just suck at games, they could very well be tainted by popamole. Nobody is immune.
For example, for some time the only adventure games I played were new ones (playing them with the woman who is also popamole) and when I recently got to some old ones that I have on my backlog I kept slamming the space-key like a retard to show the hotspots.
I'm telling you, the popamole disease is dangerous and contagious.

It is clear from the video that Boyarsky is tainted with no chance of salvation. Cain on the other hand seems like his brain went to mush in the meantime. He is so slow and lost, I don't see him being able to write any serious code anymore and who knows how good are his management skills.

This video proved that all the old heroes are dead and that when game designers get old they get useless.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm watching it right now, and the using stimpacks part is hilarious. But even the retards in chat just told them to equip the stimpacks.

Guess if they were to play Fallout 2 we'd get Tim going "how to refuel car?".

 

[Paul_cz]

I mean they don't even figure out you can hold the left mouse to open the context menu to use stuff in the inventory..

and they can't find Tandi

I don't even

Kill me now

 

[whydoibother]

Damn, being old is horrible. He looks barely sentient. Alexa, set a reminder for 2050 to kill myself.

 

[SlumLord]

He came up with the world, the lore, the locations, and the game's system. Of course he didn't flash out every detail, but he created the gist of it. And then of course there were designers and writers who put more detail into that. That doesn't mean that Josh didn't have a creative input in the game. The same with Cain. So your comparison is way off.

Wrong. The lore, locations, setting, plot, and story were an unholy mix of multiple pitches created by separate writers at Obsidian (though Fenstermaker's version was the dominant one, they still added a bunch of elements from the discarded design docs).

Josh 'came up' with the ruleset inasmuch as he made a verbatim copy of D&D, then proceeded to rip out all the fun, entertaining, and imbalanced pieces just so they could say 'TOTALLY NOT D&D GUISE!!!'.

Apart from that, other devs worked on the areas themselves, and here there was a bunch of cross-pollination between teams, but that's to be expected on a project the size of Eternity.

So yes, Josh had input, but he was just a tiny cog in a machine (of his own volition, no less). He said himself that he dislikes authoritative auters who force their vision on others (which is exactly what Eternity needed).

As far as Cain is concerned, I think the parallels to Sawyer and Eternity stand: watch the GDC talk I linked (no, seriously, watch it for its own value - it's really good!).

 

[Roguey]

First, shame on 'em for using the widescreen mod.

Tim's first Fallout character was a weird non-powergamey build, which is on brand for him I suppose (e.g. the all-halfing bard party in ToEE)

He spent all that time walking instead of running (until someone finally told him to change it to autorun) then he didn't seem to understand that running always breaks stealth, and on top of that, when he finally changed the combat speed from slowest, he didn't crank it up all the way.

Pretty annoyed at how all those spoilers in the audience made them put all that effort into finding a locker and all it had were flares. The rifle saga was entertaining though.

I suppose it isn't completely intuitive that you're supposed to hold down the left mouse button when you get the binoculars. The F1 help screen doesn't tell you this, just that right clicking changes the mode.

Leonard is surprised when people who started with Fallout 3 and New Vegas tell him they got into and like the older Fallouts. I suppose such inferiority is better left in the past.

Tim irritated me when he used his rifle but didn't use his spare 3 AP to make a follow-up knife attack, but then he did in fact do that later, so it all evens out.

He was also accurate in his assessment that he didn't die once, though some of that came down to luck. He did better than Chris with Arcanum, but unlike Chris, he had played this before and he was getting live feedback from the audience on top of that. (the wolves incident would have been prevented with this).

For the Outer Worlds I'm sure we can expect a more idiot-friendly interface, less rat killing in the beginning, and dumb dialogue that doesn't force you to rely on blind exploration/metagming to complete it (though that last one is obvious from the video they've already shown).