Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Decline CDPR ruined the games industry by exposing what it truly is.

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
400
...a bunch of teenage edgelords who lack the capacity to evaluate game design beyond its most superficial trappings. Obsessing over "maturity" is ironically a very childish disposition (there's a great C.S. Lewis quote about this). And my god does CDPR indulge the shit out of insecure adolescents. Play this strong silent, tough talking badass. Like basically just the D&D character I made when I was 15.

And man are their games just a plain chore to play. Their UI is a mess. Most of the loot is jpeg junk. Enemy design has virtually no variation. Their leveling system is the thinnest veneer of a stat treadmill. They basically have no creative reason to implement an open world beyond it being the hot new trend. Their entire game design formula is just grinding through animators until they have enough pretty cinematics to fill a 60 hour game. It's painfully obvious they never plan the dev time to 'find the fun', they're rushing right down to the wire with just enough time for basic bugfixing (or not).

And despite how mediocre everything they do is, no one calls them out on it because seemingly all gaming media is capable of is evaluating whether or not a feature is present not if it's good. Oh and girafics, they love their girafics. Even if it's mostly cutscene trickery. If you wanna know why Cyberpunk flopped, it's because CDPR is literally made of gamer hype culture and bought into their own propaganda. Despite average to bad design all over the place, they thought they were top shit and marketed like it.

You may disagree with many AAA studios about the direction and casualization of their game design, but they tend to at least execute on that vision well. They spend a lot of time refining the systems so that they're fun and interesting to engage with instead of just a feature off a list. MGSV, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, and Arkham Knight all came out the same year as The Witcher 3 and while certainly none of them is without their flaws, in terms of intriguing and varied gameplay they're all well superior. But no, fans loved those MATURE storytelling and EPIC cinematics.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,976
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Coming from playing Cyberpunk 2077 for hours and stopping because I just couldn't stomach the completely samey and devoid-of-challenge gameplay anymore, I must say:
Yes.

But even Witcher 3 was MUCH better in this regard. At least different kinds of enemies forced you to use somewhat different approaches (and I mean beyond picking the correct kind of sword).
In CP, every enemy is the same and defeated in the same way.
Your first mission is exactly the same as mission no. 742. You are basically playing a 10 hour FPS campaign stretched over 30+ hours.

However, that is not just a CDPR problem, nor are they the first to suffer from it.
This is a general AAA problem with only very few exceptions.
Mainstream media wants mainstream audience and mainstream audience mostly just wants flashy lights and a story told in movie format. Can't blame devs for developing for their audience.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,943
Location
The Swamp
And despite how mediocre everything they do is, no one calls them out on it because seemingly all gaming media is capable of is evaluating whether or not a feature is present not if it's good. Oh and girafics, they love their girafics. Even if it's mostly cutscene trickery. If you wanna know why Cyberpunk flopped, it's because CDPR is literally made of gamer hype culture and bought into their own propaganda. Despite average to bad design all over the place, they thought they were top shit and marketed like it.

Except not everything they've done has been mediocre. I'll just assume you haven't played their older titles. Either that or you have an agenda here.

MGSV, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, and Arkham Knight all came out the same year as The Witcher 3 and while certainly none of them is without their flaws, in terms of intriguing and varied gameplay they're all well superior.

On second thought, it's possible you're just mentally retarded.
 
Last edited:

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
47,102
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
As I said before in Cyberpunk thread most people (atleast here) are well aware of many faults of Witcher 3 but still that game is elevated above those faults. Yes combat was poor and loot even worse and there was little incentive to actually explore the world outside doing quests but due great atmosphere, interesting quests and characters it was fun to play. People like me were also aware that it would be pretty delusional to expect CDPR to fix those faults for Cyberpunk. What we wanted was basically Cyberpunk Witcher, a beautiful atmospheric world that has great quests and characters and bunch of pointless bland distractions. Yet they were unable to even deliver that as I personally found very little characters and quests in Cyberpunk to be actually interesting.

Due all of its limitations and faults the world of Witcher 3 feels alive and a place in which you can immerse yourself. The world of Cyberpunk feels like a computer game where you just do bunch of gigs on autopilot.
 

Tyrr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,387
Your first mission is exactly the same as mission no. 742.
It's worse. The first missions (like most of act 1) are much better than the rest of the game.
Because that's the part they showed to journalists and investors. If all the missions had the quality of the first ones (like getting the robot in the factory or the heist), the game would had been much better.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
11,289
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
...a bunch of teenage edgelords who lack the capacity to evaluate game design beyond its most superficial trappings. Obsessing over "maturity" is ironically a very childish disposition (there's a great C.S. Lewis quote about this). And my god does CDPR indulge the shit out of insecure adolescents. Play this strong silent, tough talking badass. Like basically just the D&D character I made when I was 15.

And man are their games just a plain chore to play. Their UI is a mess. Most of the loot is jpeg junk. Enemy design has virtually no variation. Their leveling system is the thinnest veneer of a stat treadmill. They basically have no creative reason to implement an open world beyond it being the hot new trend. Their entire game design formula is just grinding through animators until they have enough pretty cinematics to fill a 60 hour game. It's painfully obvious they never plan the dev time to 'find the fun', they're rushing right down to the wire with just enough time for basic bugfixing (or not).

And despite how mediocre everything they do is, no one calls them out on it because seemingly all gaming media is capable of is evaluating whether or not a feature is present not if it's good. Oh and girafics, they love their girafics. Even if it's mostly cutscene trickery. If you wanna know why Cyberpunk flopped, it's because CDPR is literally made of gamer hype culture and bought into their own propaganda. Despite average to bad design all over the place, they thought they were top shit and marketed like it.

You may disagree with many AAA studios about the direction and casualization of their game design, but they tend to at least execute on that vision well. They spend a lot of time refining the systems so that they're fun and interesting to engage with instead of just a feature off a list. MGSV, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, and Arkham Knight all came out the same year as The Witcher 3 and while certainly none of them is without their flaws, in terms of intriguing and varied gameplay they're all well superior. But no, fans loved those MATURE storytelling and EPIC cinematics.

I hate to tell you this, but most games that use a leveling system ends up being a chore since all you are doing is making the numbers bigger. It doesn't change the time to kill things, unlike AD&D based games like the SSI Gold Box games.

Quest design has been stuck for the past 20 years on FedEx, Fetch, and Escort in the majority of games.

All of the games you cited as being better are also a chore to play. You have selectivity in your bias since they all share the same things that Cyberpunk 2077 have.
 

AdamReith

Magister
Patron
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
2,109
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Doubt they are too much diffferent from the other "cinematic gaming" studios.

They just happen to have more conventional RPG cred due to the Witcher 1 being one of the best commercial Aurora engine adaptations.

Similar case to Bioware I guess, if they had started out making shite instead of transitioning to it over time nobody would give them a second thought.
 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
400
Protip: remove the first and last paragraph from op and you look like you have a point. Mostly.
I won't because both paragraphs are true. I posted this on General Gaming rather than RPG Discussion so you don't have to pretend branching narratives are the ultimate gaming experience.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,243
Location
The Satellite Of Love
I actually prefer CP2077 to the Witcher. Something about the Witcher just completely repels me, I've played all three games in parts but I don't think I've ever managed to play any of them to completion. I can't get over how fucking gay the plot is - like OP says, you're a 6 ft tall super-special man with Sephiroth hair and unique glowing eyes who oozes sex appeal and is also the greatest swordsman in the land. Laughable. Surprised he's got a boring name like Geralt rather than Bloodfire Amethyst Lunarphase or some shit. Can you even imagine the how loud the butthurt (yet correct) cries of "Mary Sue!!!" would be from the teenage boys who make up the Witcher fanbase if everything was exactly the same but Geralt had a female model and a female voice actor saying the same lines. Combine this with boring exploration and naff combat and what's the reason to keep going?

Not to say CP2077 isn't shit for the most part, the story and setting are utterly intolerable and the city and surrounding wasteland are just a complete ballache to travel around, and all the driving you have to do (in cars with the handling of a busted shopping trolley) is a real drag. Not to mention that you've got a choice between the "real" music they got the worst bands on Earth to record just for the game, and shitty replacement license-free stock music that sounds like a Def Leppard cover band that, somehow, manages to be worse than the original. But I managed to get to the end of the game at least, even if most of it was spent with the game muted and radio/podcasts playing while I snuck around the fifteenth consecutive garage KOing everyone to complete another "gig" for some prat. Just make sure you hammer that "Skip Dialogue" button whenever Keanu pops up to say some dumb shit like "hey choom, you ready to tango with the greatest cyberjacker in the net?" or whatever.
 

wishbonetail

Learned
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
671
Play this strong silent, tough talking badass. Like basically just the D&D character I made when I was 15.

Duly noted. Games in which you control Woody Allen and Melissa McCarthy shall be coming forthwith.
Disco Elysium is the future. Miserable drunkard with mid life crysis, making all the dubious life choices. Yeah, that image speaks to me.
 

Konjad

Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
4,283
Location
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
...a bunch of teenage edgelords who lack the capacity to evaluate game design beyond its most superficial trappings. Obsessing over "maturity" is ironically a very childish disposition (there's a great C.S. Lewis quote about this). And my god does CDPR indulge the shit out of insecure adolescents. Play this strong silent, tough talking badass. Like basically just the D&D character I made when I was 15.
I assume you're talking about Geralt. They just picked up a pre-made character from books, and I give them that the character (as well as other characters) is true to the original. I think that's a good thing, although whether you like it or not is subjective (I also don't like Geralt that much, but very much like some other characters like Jaskier - which was also very well played in the Polish TV series, but completely butchered in the Netflix one which made him a literal retard).

And man are their games just a plain chore to play. Their UI is a mess. Most of the loot is jpeg junk.
True.

Enemy design has virtually no variation.
Depends on the game, but overall it's not any worse than most other RPGs. At least in Twitchers. I'd give it OK.


Their leveling system is the thinnest veneer of a stat treadmill.
Like most RPGs.

They basically have no creative reason to implement an open world beyond it being the hot new trend.
Like most open-world RPGs, yeah, I agree, and yet it's very pleasant for explorefags like me. Did Arcanum need to be open-world? Prelude to Darkness? Morrowind? KCD? No. But I'm glad they were.


Their entire game design formula is just grinding through animators until they have enough pretty cinematics to fill a 60 hour game. It's painfully obvious they never plan the dev time to 'find the fun', they're rushing right down to the wire with just enough time for basic bugfixing (or not).
Subjective opinion. I loved their first Twitcher for what it was.

And despite how mediocre everything they do is, no one calls them out on it because seemingly all gaming media is capable of is evaluating whether or not a feature is present not if it's good. Oh and girafics, they love their girafics. Even if it's mostly cutscene trickery. If you wanna know why Cyberpunk flopped, it's because CDPR is literally made of gamer hype culture and bought into their own propaganda. Despite average to bad design all over the place, they thought they were top shit and marketed like it.
I'd say something, but then you contine:

You may disagree with many AAA studios about the direction and casualization of their game design, but they tend to at least execute on that vision well. They spend a lot of time refining the systems so that they're fun and interesting to engage with instead of just a feature off a list. MGSV, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, and Arkham Knight all came out the same year as The Witcher 3 and while certainly none of them is without their flaws, in terms of intriguing and varied gameplay they're all well superior. But no, fans loved those MATURE storytelling and EPIC cinematics.
:retarded:
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,682
Location
The Centre of the World
I actually prefer CP2077 to the Witcher. Something about the Witcher just completely repels me, I've played all three games in parts but I don't think I've ever managed to play any of them to completion. I can't get over how fucking gay the plot is - like OP says, you're a 6 ft tall super-special man with Sephiroth hair and unique glowing eyes who oozes sex appeal and is also the greatest swordsman in the land. Laughable. Surprised he's got a boring name like Geralt rather than Bloodfire Amethyst Lunarphase or some shit. Can you even imagine the how loud the butthurt (yet correct) cries of "Mary Sue!!!" would be from the teenage boys who make up the Witcher fanbase if everything was exactly the same but Geralt had a female model and a female voice actor saying the same lines. Combine this with boring exploration and naff combat and what's the reason to keep going?

Not to say CP2077 isn't shit for the most part, the story and setting are utterly intolerable and the city and surrounding wasteland are just a complete ballache to travel around, and all the driving you have to do (in cars with the handling of a busted shopping trolley) is a real drag. Not to mention that you've got a choice between the "real" music they got the worst bands on Earth to record just for the game, and shitty replacement license-free stock music that sounds like a Def Leppard cover band that, somehow, manages to be worse than the original. But I managed to get to the end of the game at least, even if most of it was spent with the game muted and radio/podcasts playing while I snuck around the fifteenth consecutive garage KOing everyone to complete another "gig" for some prat. Just make sure you hammer that "Skip Dialogue" button whenever Keanu pops up to say some dumb shit like "hey choom, you ready to tango with the greatest cyberjacker in the net?" or whatever.
geralt is a more realistic character than you are
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,631
I actually prefer CP2077 to the Witcher. Something about the Witcher just completely repels me, I've played all three games in parts but I don't think I've ever managed to play any of them to completion. I can't get over how fucking gay the plot is - like OP says, you're a 6 ft tall super-special man with Sephiroth hair and unique glowing eyes who oozes sex appeal and is also the greatest swordsman in the land. Laughable. Surprised he's got a boring name like Geralt rather than Bloodfire Amethyst Lunarphase or some shit. Can you even imagine the how loud the butthurt (yet correct) cries of "Mary Sue!!!" would be from the teenage boys who make up the Witcher fanbase if everything was exactly the same but Geralt had a female model and a female voice actor saying the same lines. Combine this with boring exploration and naff combat and what's the reason to keep going?

Not to say CP2077 isn't shit for the most part, the story and setting are utterly intolerable and the city and surrounding wasteland are just a complete ballache to travel around, and all the driving you have to do (in cars with the handling of a busted shopping trolley) is a real drag. Not to mention that you've got a choice between the "real" music they got the worst bands on Earth to record just for the game, and shitty replacement license-free stock music that sounds like a Def Leppard cover band that, somehow, manages to be worse than the original. But I managed to get to the end of the game at least, even if most of it was spent with the game muted and radio/podcasts playing while I snuck around the fifteenth consecutive garage KOing everyone to complete another "gig" for some prat. Just make sure you hammer that "Skip Dialogue" button whenever Keanu pops up to say some dumb shit like "hey choom, you ready to tango with the greatest cyberjacker in the net?" or whatever.
geralt is a more realistic character than you are

21911.jpg
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,886
Location
Water Play Catarinense
The game industry has been shit for many years. The Witcher 3 is a product of this game industry, unlike many great games from the past. Every generation has the products it deserves. As long as the game industry keeps being shit, you are bound to find more shit than good games.
 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
400
Like most RPGs.
Nah, TW3 is like if you told someone who has never played RPGs to design an RPG. RPGs have stats so you can customize your character on a very granular level. Just giving a raw stat boost to everything on level up doesn't make sense, why not just scale enemies according to the initial stats? And the leveled open world, why? Other RPGs are open world because they're simulationist. Of course you can go anywhere, why couldn't you? They don't level gate by arbitrarily making bandits in some areas stronger than others. No, they have high level enemies because it makes sense for the Cursed Land of Doom to have giant friggen monsters and it makes sense for those monsters to annihilate all but the strongest adventurers. They're trying to convey how the world works through their abstractions.
No, like, for real though. How are any of TW3's mechanics superior to any of the games I mentioned? Remember we're on "General Gaming" here not "General RPG Discussion", you can't hide behind 'muh worldbuilding'. I know this forum is perpetually scared of talking about the gameplay aspect of video games, but you're gonna have to at some point if you wanna understand the medium.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom