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Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I read this thread whenever I log into the Codex. This is my Chris Avellone shrine, after all -- and I'm always glad to see my god isn't dead.

Btw Chris Avellone do consider hosting your writer's CV on the Codex. You know this can only end well.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
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17,068
Codex USB, 2014
CB can pitch the CV to her contacts at Obsidian
 

Hegel

Arcane
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
3,274
A party turn-based Vampire the Masquerade game written by MCA. :love:
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,248
First off, starting this thread was a damn nice thing to do. I would almost mistake you for Virginians with your demeanor, it is damn gentlemanly. :: Tips hat :: If I ever get to pitch in on a space game, I'll see what I can do about creating a Codex Appreciation (Space) Station. Perhaps ruled by a forum. And covered in space threads.

Second, in the interests of giving credit where credit is due - I should probably set up a webpage with links as to what I actually did on projects, as I feel like I get positive cred that's underserved as well as negative cred that should be sent my way, having some place to check the facts would probably be a good idea - I did write all the companions on NWN2 OC, and Gann and Kaelyn on Mask of the Betrayer. I also did some of the major NPCs and major events as well, including the trial sequence, for example, but I'd have to go back through a fine-tooth-comb to see which ones were actually mine. I admit there may have been instances in a specific area (for some reason, Casavir nags at me) that were done by someone else, so my memory may have missed some elements, and I apologize in advance if that's the case.

In all the instances above, none of the original concepts were mine. It doesn't matter, since execution is the thing, and that's what a writer's supposed to excel at. Your job is to take someone who dresses up as a bat and fights crime and make that shitty (imo) concept work. A more challenging one might be if one of his foes identifies with penguins, but hey, Arkham City made it work, imo (the Penguin's intro and museum collection I thought was great).

Yes, NWN2 OC had a lot of companions, and I do feel I could have done a better job with all of them from minor details to major elements (for example, Grobnar suffered the same problem as Oswald Fiddlebender in Icewind Dale - he was written to be hyperactive, but then that got lost on the way to the VO booth, and had I time to go to the studio in both instances, I could have remedied that at once, and I should have found the time to do so). Their lines are excruciatingly long to be spoken at normal speed, although I still liked Oswald's VO delivery, I believe the actor was Jack Roth.

I also didn't feel that the companions were as tied to events in the game as they should be, and I thought with George Ziets' help (as well as most of the designers on Mask), this was a big difference in Mask. I especially liked how the area designers specifically wove the companions into each area, since I felt like their arcs advanced as you advanced through the game and enjoyed Mask's simple non-linearity as well, which I don't think was a resource drain, but Kevin Saunders and George could probably give a better answer.

After NWN2 OC, I did harsher reviews of CNPC concepts before agreeing to them. In some instances, I felt good about the creative direction (Gann, Kaelyn, Cass - and this includes the Gann romance arc, too), other times I suggested new CNPC concepts or tweaks if I felt I could do a better job in tone or more importantly, might fit better with the world's themes (Hollowborn, Godhammer background) or the basic mechanics of the world. For example, Ulysses in the FNV core game was intended to give someone with Legion rep a CNPC who would stand by them, and also give insight into the Legion as well. I would have preferred that Vulpes be that guy, actually. And that you could have recruited Sunny, Yes Man, and Benny as possibilities instead of the core CNPCs as well - there's ways that seemingly crit path characters like this can still become part of your journey in interesting ways that doesn't damage their roles as CNPCs.

Writing a companion basically means you're married to that character for 4 to 8 weeks of 6-7 days of work, so you'd better damn well like it from the outset. I freely admit I don't do well when it comes to traditional fantasy characters, especially if there's a ton of them. The last character concept I agreed to inherit was Cass, because I knew she'd be fun to write and I felt I could do a good job with her tone and outlook.

Lastly, Tony Evans is a great guy and a great designer. I like the way he writes, and I meant it when I said I'd grab him for a new Torment game (Numenera). He also has one of the best work ethics and dedication I've seen in a designer - among many positive qualities, he's clear and responsible about fixing bugs (he rose up from QA and I think that's important b/c you understand how things are in the trenches), and I'll never forget the tremendous amount of work hours he put into KOTORII (unasked) even though his wife was pregnant at the time. I have nothing but respect for Tony, and I like working with him, he's good people and a great designer.

Forgive the rambling and any typos in this post, the coffee's hitting.
Are you interested in being a lead writer on a new IP or CRPG in the future?

Considering you were an owner of Obsidian and Creative Director, why didn't you become the lead writer for Pillars of Eternity? Why only write two characters for what is Obisidian's first CRPG and new IP?
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
I asked something similar back when he answered questions from the Codex for the Shane Plays podcast.

(Fairfax) Ask him if he's planning on being lead designer again in whatever he chooses to work on next: Answer: I would take on that role, but I'd rather be a Project Lead, since those seem to turn out better for me overall.
He also said:
Project Lead: Sure, I would do that again under the right timing and resources. Torment was great, but KOTOR2 was not ideal, for a variety of reasons. Time, budget, and honestly, scoping issues are things that would have to be more carefully managed on my end.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
First off, starting this thread was a damn nice thing to do. I would almost mistake you for Virginians with your demeanor, it is damn gentlemanly. :: Tips hat :: If I ever get to pitch in on a space game, I'll see what I can do about creating a Codex Appreciation (Space) Station. Perhaps ruled by a forum. And covered in space threads.

Second, in the interests of giving credit where credit is due - I should probably set up a webpage with links as to what I actually did on projects, as I feel like I get positive cred that's underserved as well as negative cred that should be sent my way, having some place to check the facts would probably be a good idea - I did write all the companions on NWN2 OC, and Gann and Kaelyn on Mask of the Betrayer. I also did some of the major NPCs and major events as well, including the trial sequence, for example, but I'd have to go back through a fine-tooth-comb to see which ones were actually mine. I admit there may have been instances in a specific area (for some reason, Casavir nags at me) that were done by someone else, so my memory may have missed some elements, and I apologize in advance if that's the case.

In all the instances above, none of the original concepts were mine. It doesn't matter, since execution is the thing, and that's what a writer's supposed to excel at. Your job is to take someone who dresses up as a bat and fights crime and make that shitty (imo) concept work. A more challenging one might be if one of his foes identifies with penguins, but hey, Arkham City made it work, imo (the Penguin's intro and museum collection I thought was great).

Yes, NWN2 OC had a lot of companions, and I do feel I could have done a better job with all of them from minor details to major elements (for example, Grobnar suffered the same problem as Oswald Fiddlebender in Icewind Dale - he was written to be hyperactive, but then that got lost on the way to the VO booth, and had I time to go to the studio in both instances, I could have remedied that at once, and I should have found the time to do so). Their lines are excruciatingly long to be spoken at normal speed, although I still liked Oswald's VO delivery, I believe the actor was Jack Roth.

I also didn't feel that the companions were as tied to events in the game as they should be, and I thought with George Ziets' help (as well as most of the designers on Mask), this was a big difference in Mask. I especially liked how the area designers specifically wove the companions into each area, since I felt like their arcs advanced as you advanced through the game and enjoyed Mask's simple non-linearity as well, which I don't think was a resource drain, but Kevin Saunders and George could probably give a better answer.

After NWN2 OC, I did harsher reviews of CNPC concepts before agreeing to them. In some instances, I felt good about the creative direction (Gann, Kaelyn, Cass - and this includes the Gann romance arc, too), other times I suggested new CNPC concepts or tweaks if I felt I could do a better job in tone or more importantly, might fit better with the world's themes (Hollowborn, Godhammer background) or the basic mechanics of the world. For example, Ulysses in the FNV core game was intended to give someone with Legion rep a CNPC who would stand by them, and also give insight into the Legion as well. I would have preferred that Vulpes be that guy, actually. And that you could have recruited Sunny, Yes Man, and Benny as possibilities instead of the core CNPCs as well - there's ways that seemingly crit path characters like this can still become part of your journey in interesting ways that doesn't damage their roles as CNPCs.

Writing a companion basically means you're married to that character for 4 to 8 weeks of 6-7 days of work, so you'd better damn well like it from the outset. I freely admit I don't do well when it comes to traditional fantasy characters, especially if there's a ton of them. The last character concept I agreed to inherit was Cass, because I knew she'd be fun to write and I felt I could do a good job with her tone and outlook.

Lastly, Tony Evans is a great guy and a great designer. I like the way he writes, and I meant it when I said I'd grab him for a new Torment game (Numenera). He also has one of the best work ethics and dedication I've seen in a designer - among many positive qualities, he's clear and responsible about fixing bugs (he rose up from QA and I think that's important b/c you understand how things are in the trenches), and I'll never forget the tremendous amount of work hours he put into KOTORII (unasked) even though his wife was pregnant at the time. I have nothing but respect for Tony, and I like working with him, he's good people and a great designer.

Forgive the rambling and any typos in this post, the coffee's hitting.
G Ziets anything to add? :ziets:

Oh, you actually post! Sometimes I forget you are staff.
He mostly works behind the scenes--moving threads, etc.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,248
I asked something similar back when he answered questions from the Codex for the Shane Plays podcast.

(Fairfax) Ask him if he's planning on being lead designer again in whatever he chooses to work on next: Answer: I would take on that role, but I'd rather be a Project Lead, since those seem to turn out better for me overall.
He also said:
Project Lead: Sure, I would do that again under the right timing and resources. Torment was great, but KOTOR2 was not ideal, for a variety of reasons. Time, budget, and honestly, scoping issues are things that would have to be more carefully managed on my end.
What do Project Leads do differently exactly? I'm not familiar with all the different roles in game development. You'd figure someone with creative and writing talent would be better in the role of a lead writer wouldn't you?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,298
Pathfinder: Wrath
Having creative talent doesn't mean he doesn't have other talents :p
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
I asked something similar back when he answered questions from the Codex for the Shane Plays podcast.

(Fairfax) Ask him if he's planning on being lead designer again in whatever he chooses to work on next: Answer: I would take on that role, but I'd rather be a Project Lead, since those seem to turn out better for me overall.
He also said:
Project Lead: Sure, I would do that again under the right timing and resources. Torment was great, but KOTOR2 was not ideal, for a variety of reasons. Time, budget, and honestly, scoping issues are things that would have to be more carefully managed on my end.
What do Project Leads do differently exactly? I'm not familiar with all the different roles in game development. You'd figure someone with creative and writing talent would be better in the role of a lead writer wouldn't you?
These names and roles are not consistent, they change in every game. The Project Director/Project Lead is basically the Creative Lead and the Producer combined. He oversees every creative aspect of the game, leads and guides every team and has to manage resources (with a producer or alone) in order to deliver the game in time, within budget (and that's as good as possible, of course).
The Project Lead may take on other roles as well, it's very common in RPGs. MCA doesn't have to be Project Lead or Lead Writer, in fact he was effectively Lead Writer everytime he was Project Lead (PS:T, KotOR II, FNV DLCs). In KotOR II and PS:T he was also Lead Designer, so he had these 3 roles at once.

His answer about Project Lead turning out better is probably because IIRC the only time he was Lead Designer but not Project Lead simultaneously was Alpha Protocol, which went through development hell and all.
As for cancelled games, there's this story duraframe told me:
(They = Sawyer and MCA)
They worked in a Lead Designer/Lead Writer relationship on Aliens.

Now here's a bit of story:

George Ziets left Obsidian at the time and worked at the Bethesda MMO branch. He told us that Aliens looked pretty amazing when he left. When he came back the project was still promising, but nowhere near what was envisioned....

Avellone left the project midway through. Was it really to get Alpha Protocol done already (like we were told) or was that already a sign that things weren't so rosy.......

Don't know if you already knew that, but alas. Thought it was worth sharing.
 

Xor

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Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'm honestly pretty surprised to learn that MCA wrote the NWN2OC companions. They don't feel like his writing at all, I guess because he didn't have anything to do with the initial concept. I do like some of them, and I know I'm in the minority because I think the NWN2OC was PRETTY OKAY, but the writing is pretty subpar for an Obsidian game, and especially compared to KOTOR2.

I'm also not really surprised to learn MCA wrote the trial scene. I've read through the dialog for that scene and it's a convoluted mess of branching choices. It's kind of a shame that you end up in a fight with Lorne no matter how well you do, and the rewards for doing well are so trivial.
 

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
Companions are optional/can be permanently killed off in many RPG's, so it makes sense that they're the last thing added onto the pre-existing content.
 

Bonerbill

Augur
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
302
Location
North Carolina
And despite the characters being optional, the PS:T characters fit well into the main story unlike a certain other recent Obsidian game.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,298
Pathfinder: Wrath
PS:T's characters represented different facets of torment/suffering, be it physical or mental, that's why they worked so well. They fit thematically, but not literally (as in, affect the main plot), which is fine and a great way to write characters that you aren't sure are going to be with the protagonist. Another way is MotB's, they actually *are* tied to be main plot, but they affect it by their past actions and can't screw the plot up if they aren't with the protag.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,377
Companions were the last thing written in PST?

Malk dialogues were the last thing written for Bloodlines. Is this a pattern?

I can actually see that.

Like saving the best food for last, after all that hard work I bet they enjoyed sitting back and writing all of that out.
 

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