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Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Crooked Bee, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Sigourn Arcane

    Sigourn
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    I think it's more along the lines of videogames pretty much repeating themselves time after time while drawing from films as opposed to creating their own storytelling methods relying on interactivity.
     
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  2. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Consider how movies were from the 10s up until the 50s when old ones could be aired on television. It was pretty much impossible to watch old things.
     
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  3. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    What? No it wasn't. At that time moviehouses bought, not rented, the actual film reels and kept them in a library. There were many, many cinemas that showed majority, if not exclusively, films that were older films the house had purchased 10, 20, or 30 years prior. This did generally mean that the shit-films sunk to the bottom and the cream rose to the top, but it was certainly possible for the Average Joe in 1947 to find a movie house showing Buster Keaton, Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, etc.
     
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  4. Chris Avellone Arcane Developer

    Chris Avellone
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    I think it's a mixture of both, but I couldn't tell you the values - I do feel like time and pacing of releases is necessary to digest what's missing/desired, though - I feel 100 game stories across 20 years would be more impactful than 100 game stories released in a year, but that's an extreme example, and it's just my opinion.

    However, hypocritically, I do often give advice to game writers (or any game developer): Get the first 100 potentially-weak creations out of your system as fast as possible (whether it's a story, animation, environment art, concept pieces), keep making stuff, see how it feels and plays, and the 101st attempt you may discover what you create surprises you (and resounds more strongly with others) - because you've gotten a lot of mistakes and bad creations/cliches out of your system.

    One of the other challenges is when writers for games (or lead designers/project directors)* keep drawing solely on other video game stories for inspiration and reference vs. cross-pollinating from or examining other media that have had a much longer time to examine and create stories (and themes in certain genres).

    One thing that would occasionally worry me with game narrative proposals was they were largely focused on mimicking another game's story/feel without taking a step back and considering other sources that could enrich it.

    * Before you think this is a slam on Obsidian, it's not - this rarely happened except for Pillars (b/c of BG comparisons), but I think that was more part of the quest design guiding principles from level design based on examining BG quests and trying to echo them.
     
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  5. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    It's been 7 years since TES V and people will have to wait another 7 years for TES VI. They sure could use a spin-off.

    I don't really care about it, but I think the universe deserves better games than Oblivion and Skyrim.
     
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  6. Fairfax Arcane

    Fairfax
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    In this case, it's more about another studio doing a better job. :M

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    that's funny, but also kinda depressing.
     
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  8. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    So they hate a spin-off made in 18 months by a studio with no experience with Gamebryo, which managed to be better game than their own Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 (and they spent 5 years on each). Have they considered maybe.. working harder?

    :deathclaw:
     
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  9. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    I find that tweet hard to believe, given that people in Bethesda would be perfectly aware that F:NV status as a cult classic only came to fruition after the modding community spend several years salvaging the game from its trainwreck of a launch. It's one of those odd games whose reputation at first was rather mixed, but only keeps growing as the years go by.

    At the time it made perfect sense for them not to contract Obsidian for F:NV2, because F:NV quite simply was a mess.
     
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  10. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    FNV is fine as it is (with patches and DLCs ofc). The only mods I'm always installing are Josh Sawyer's mod, better UI and nudepatch.
     
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  11. Kz3r0 Arcane

    Kz3r0
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    Actually they are true RPG fans, for the wrong reasons, the larping in Ultima, same as Garriott really and the whackiness of Fallout, exploding like a blood sausage in Fargo parliance.
     
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  12. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I played it through (or to the end game at least) on launch version. What a mess it was. </sarcasm>

    Stop being so bitter about your deownering.
     
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  13. Funposter Savant

    Funposter
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    The gap between 'The Story of the Kelly Gang' and 'Gone with the Wind' was 33 years, so we should be there soon!!!
     
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  14. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    And I de-installed the launch version after 30 minutes and didn't touch it for the next 3 years until it acquired enough mod support. But please don't tell Feargus, I need my royalties.
     
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  15. Fairfax Arcane

    Fairfax
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    I think the general sentiment is understandable. Nobody enjoys being embarrassed like that, and if external Fallouts became the main attraction, it'd be quite demoralizing for the devs and also bad for business.

    However, their solution should prevent any empathy. Instead of learning from the experience and trying to make something in the same vein, they clutched their pearls and went in the opposite direction. FO4 is the anti-FNV, and instead of funding/making another interesting spin-off, they pull a repurposed-FO4 online shooter that nobody ever asked for.

    Their solution was also short-sighted. Sure, they didn't get showed up by Obsidian again, but that didn't prevent other games from making them look even worse. In the end, they were embarrassed all the same and passed up a guaranteed $500-800 million profit.
     
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  16. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    Bethesda games aren't any better in this regard, and considering that they're spending 5 years on each makes it look even worse. For example, Skyrim had a trouble with LAA on release - it couldn't use more than 2GB of RAM (everyone with a proper gaming machine had at least 4GB in 2011) and some people with more RAM couldn't even launch it. A quick fan fix was made, but the official one came out only a month later.

    The difference is that the shallow content they produce usually aren't even worth the trouble of patching it. It is a good base for porn mods though.
     
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  17. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Oh for sure, Bethesda games are just as bad, but for some inexplicable reason they keep getting away with it, while for Obsidian F:NV cemented the Bugshitian reputation that they didn't shake off to this very day (even though post-Alpha Protocol they massively improved their QA)
     
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  18. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    It's funny because from what I remember QA for New Vegas was on Bethesda.

    As for their own games, they just have better marketing so they can get away with it. Read any unofficial patch notes if you don't believe me. The amount of unresolved issues they left is breathtaking:

    https://afkmods.iguanadons.net/Unofficial Oblivion Patch Version History.html
    https://afkmods.iguanadons.net/Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch Version History.html
     
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  19. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    New Vegas was perfectly playable after December of 2010. Additionally, the lousy launch (that Brian Fargo claims they themselves contributed to by moving the release date up) didn't stop them from completing the DLC plan.

    I've also heard from more than one source that all the fondness for New Vegas is a source of bitterness at Bethesda. +M
     
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  20. Sacred82 Self-Ejected Dumbfuck

    Self-Ejected
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    dude what

    I've always played F:NV + DLC, no mods.

    Did they go full beamderp and just put community fixes in their game or are you full of shit?
     
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  21. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Yeah and Kingmaker was perfectly playable since page 100 of the Codex thread, except we're now at page 350 and they've just announced next patch has over 1,000 fixes.

    Then you have never played F:NV at all, because as far as I'm concerned it doesn't even exist without Sawyer's mod.
     
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  22. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    I bought New Vegas on release and gave up in November because I got fed up with the bugs. After the patch in December, I was able to complete it just fine with no issues I can remember. Since then, I've completed the fully patched version twice with no issues.
     
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  23. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Oh don't act dense, you're smarter than this. Just because one person has no issues with the game, doesn't mean the game has no issues. Especially if the game is a non-linear sandbox where everybody has a different experience and does things in different order. Modders have been patching F:NV well into mid 2010s.
     
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  24. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    I've never had to use any bug fix mod. Sure it has issues, just like every other piece of software. There are no 100% bug-free RPGs.
     
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  25. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    [​IMG]
     
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