Civilization VI - Now available, so you can sink all your free time into it

[Elwro]

I bought Civ V's expansions when they were extremely cheap (there was one good sale iirc, at least I stopped looking for them of course), but even these didn't manage to bring the game up to Civ IV's standard. From what I see about VI it looks atrocious. Is there some good change when it comes to the mechanics which would make the thing salvageable or should I stay with IV?

 

[flyingjohn]

I bought Civ V's expansions when they were extremely cheap (there was one good sale iirc, at least I stopped looking for them of course), but even these didn't manage to bring the game up to Civ IV's standard. From what I see about VI it looks atrocious. Is there some good change when it comes to the mechanics which would make the thing salvageable or should I stay with IV?

Stay with 4 or play civ v with vox populi mod if you want a modern civ.
Civ 6 expansions only added more gameplay systems that don't work with the ai,making the game even more easier.

 

[fantadomat]

Cramming in women wasn't enough, they also have to be fat now.

Nigga have you seen a slim neggress? Those in the gif look a lot slimmer than the ones in reality. If anything,it is fatphobic!

 

[GarfunkeL]

I bought Civ V's expansions when they were extremely cheap (there was one good sale iirc, at least I stopped looking for them of course), but even these didn't manage to bring the game up to Civ IV's standard. From what I see about VI it looks atrocious. Is there some good change when it comes to the mechanics which would make the thing salvageable or should I stay with IV?

Caveman to Cosmos is being still updated and it's more stable and runs faster than before. I can warmly recommend it. Sure, it's an insane mega mod with billion things added but it's also a lot of fun.

 

[Theodora]

Jesus, I thought Civ VI was long done till this popped up on Steam.

re: gender, to be honest Civ isn't really the game to play if you're looking for put history anywhere near first. I mean, the leaders are just mascots, not anything more than that. Anachronism is kinda the rule.

Obviously I hope they bring back Theodora for the Byzantines (though probably not, given the Romans are already purple), but more than that I'd love to see them use Justinian & Theodora as an excuse to put in a duo 'leader'.

Aside from all that, I kinda wonder how the elements of this pass could have an congruity; unless the 'packs' within it are only available through this, and not available separately? I can buy the online-focus if that's actually a big thing — I've not really played Civ online, am I missing out?

 

[cvv]

Obviously I hope they bring back Theodora for the Byzantines (though probably not, given the Romans are already purple)

Civ 6 will be free on Epic in 2 days.

Also Theodora would be p. confused if you called her "Byzantine". She was Roman, a legitimate empress of the Roman Empire, hence the purple.

 

[Theodora]

Also Theodora would be p. confused if you called her "Byzantine". She was Roman, a legitimate empress of the Roman Empire, hence the purple.

You don't need to tell me that <__< but I'm not sure Firaxis are working on that model, given most Westerners don't acknowledge the medieval Romans as Roman at all (even though under J&T, Latin was still the state language).

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Hellraiser]

I know they are scraping the bottom of the barrell already, but if this is what they come up with now, what civs will they include by the end of this DLC milking season? Belgium? Afghanistan? Andora? Maybe Lesotho?

I mean FFS, the game already has Georgia, Australia, Canada and a bunch of injun tribes that are about as noteworthy as the original pagan prussians who lived in the area a bit east of me centuries ago, before the teutonic knights came in and germanized or slaughtered them.

I guess they could add Israel for you since it is at least more noteworthy than Kwanada, you guys after all do not have nukes or anything *wink* *wink*.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Israel with Golda Meir, they could even reuse the model / animations of the Dutch Queen.

 

[Fedora Master]

It's just pandering at this point.

 

[Monolith]

I bought Civ V's expansions when they were extremely cheap (there was one good sale iirc, at least I stopped looking for them of course), but even these didn't manage to bring the game up to Civ IV's standard. From what I see about VI it looks atrocious. Is there some good change when it comes to the mechanics which would make the thing salvageable or should I stay with IV?

It offers lots of interesting mechanics that allow for lots of optimizations and min-maxing and just when it starts to feel satisfying you realize you don't need it because the AI has no AI. Somewhere around mid-game you start going through the motions, empires fall left and right and you just miss the good old times of Civ IV when suddenly Montezuma puts a stack of death next to your border and they call dips on you.

In times of Deep AI, Neural Networks, self-driving cars hunting for elderly on the roads it shouldn't be too difficult to add a somewhat working AI to the game. But instead they release fodder after fodder.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I know they are scraping the bottom of the barrell already, but if this is what they come up with now, what civs will they include by the end of this DLC milking season? Belgium? Afghanistan? Andora? Maybe Lesotho?

I mean FFS, the game already has Georgia, Australia, Canada and a bunch of injun tribes that are about as noteworthy as the original pagan prussians who lived in the area a bit east of me centuries ago, before the teutonic knights came in and germanized or slaughtered them.

I guess they could add Israel for you since it is at least more noteworthy than Kwanada, you guys after all do not have nukes or anything *wink* *wink*.

The possibilities are endless. They can do sub-civs, somalian sweden, turkish germany, gypsy slovakia etc. Mix and match traits/bonuses, add some flavor like doner kebap unique buidling for germturks or "wherever I go I must also raep" social civic for swedalians. Brb, sending my cv to firaxis.

 

[Azdul]

In times of Deep AI, Neural Networks, self-driving cars hunting for elderly on the roads it shouldn't be too difficult to add a somewhat working AI to the game. But instead they release fodder after fodder.

There are two problems with it:

1. One unit per tile makes movement and combat insanely complicated and CPU intensive. Take into account choke points, units escorting other units, possible counter-strategies from the opponent - and the complications just pile on. What is relatively simple in real time strategies without discrete tiles, or in turn based strategies without 1UPT - becomes hard problem once 1UPT comes in.

2. It is really hard to design neural network AI that will play to win, but will not use broken Civ 6 design to get nearly infinite gold, settlers, science and army.

It would probably be easier to design new game from scratch - one that will give an expert player a fair challenge without consuming insane CPU resources.

 

[Monolith]

Supervised learning should be able to deal with use of broken design.

With too CPU intense, no so sure. Chess seems highly comples, with similar constraints, and your smartphone can deal with that amount of computation.

Still, there's probably a lot of truth in what you're pointing out. Either way, with a stupid AI as is, there's not much fun there, no matter how many civs they are adding.

 

[Fedora Master]

In times of Deep AI, Neural Networks, self-driving cars hunting for elderly on the roads it shouldn't be too difficult to add a somewhat working AI to the game. But instead they release fodder after fodder.

There are two problems with it:

Actually the main problems are Firaxis being incompetent retards and the fans that still play the series not being interested in actual simulation games.

 

[Azdul]

With too CPU intense, no so sure. Chess seems highly comples, with similar constraints, and your smartphone can deal with that amount of computation.

Chess is a perfect information game (which makes things easier), and had tons of AI research dedicated to it, and game balance was tweaked for few centuries.

Writing better Civ 6 AI would be a fun thing to do as a research project, but:

Movement AI is not exposed through API, and you can only change things with Civ 6 AI that you could change with Civ 4 AI. In Civ 4 your AI could silently plan a war against opponent X, build a tons of combat units with certain proportion of artillery - and unleash them as 1-2 stacks of doom once relative strength reaches certain level. Do the same thing in Civ 6 - and you get giant traffic jam lasting for centuries, while opponent destroys the units one by one.

Civ 6 basically have tweaked Civ 4 AI engine - but with 1UPT this engine simply no longer works.

 

[Raghar]

Writing AI for this games is trivial. Writing AI for games like Total War aka for lots of units moving around in real time, and with adaptive AI that would create its own strategies is hard because of CPU power restrain. AI running a simulation on background eatsh memory bandwidth and it's quite hard to allow AI to create 100 different simulations of expected battle, and still have CPU time for actual player and main game AI.

 

[cvv]

There's nothing magical to an engine tuned to 1UPT. The tiny Ruski game Warlock had a very serviceable tactical AI (even though the strategic AI sucked hard). The utter helplessness of a big Kwan studio backed by a gigantic corporation face to face their own system for the past 10 years is truly hilarious.

 

[flyingjohn]

There's nothing magical to an engine tuned to 1UPT. The tiny Ruski game Warlock had a very serviceable tactical AI (even though the strategic AI sucked hard). The utter helplessness of a big Kwan studio backed by a gigantic corporation face to face their own system is truly hilarious.

Also the old world also has better ai on a shoestring budget.
Anybody can make functioning 1upt ai as long as they actually make a function to calculate terrain and best movement optionS instead of just "LOL IF YOU CAN MOVE THERE DO IT!!

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Firaxis also really heavily subscribes to the idea that the purpose of the AI is to entertain the player and then lose. Really easy to slide into "who gives a shit about the AI lol" from that.

 

[Gerrard]

Israel with Golda Meir, they could even reuse the model / animations of the Dutch Queen.

Have you noticed that Israel hasn't been in ANY (main) Civ game? Even as a city-state. Even though Judaism is.
Really makes you think.

 

[Theodora]

Actually the main problems are Firaxis being incompetent retards and the fans that still play the series not being interested in actual simulation games.

I mean, if it's a simulation game it's a highly abstracted one.

Firaxis also really heavily subscribes to the idea that the purpose of the AI is to entertain the player and then lose. Really easy to slide into "who gives a shit about the AI lol" from that.

I get that they're trying to appeal to a wider audience with Switch releases and all, but it doesn't feel like it should be an either/or choice. Lots of games have very distinct AIs options.

 

[Perkel]

free on epic store right now. I think comes only with 1 dlc i think.

 

[Mazisky]

I've never bought any game into Epic Store but i redeemed many free games, this included. Why people hates Epic if they are throwing money at me lol