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CKII is released.

Fedora Master

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Shit dudes, all this praise means I gotta try it out myself. I was convinced it'd be garbage.
e: Okay I'm impressed, they not only added Marburg as a county but also gave it its historical heraldry!
e2:
nUkczot.png

Don't call him that to his face though. :lol:
 
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Makabb

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I have to say this is the most fun version i have played so far, I didn't realy like the previous versions, but this is much better, gives me hope for imperator being good also.
 

IDtenT

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The border gore rule works pretty well. Playing on the "Harsh" rule. Only real border gore was caused by me. For a while I thought that the Muslims had reconquered some stuff, but in fact Aragon/England somehow fucked up succession and lost it to the Irish. Leading to some green-on-green action in Iberia.
The border rules are a heaven sent. Complete changed the game to be more manageable.
 

Mikeal

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Holy Order gameplay might be a bit unwieldy due to the Dynastic focus of CKII.

Also, this update is meaty as hell, even if it took so long for Paradox to finally fix the damn Crusades in a game about Crusades.

I'm hoping this is not the final DLC, I think there's enough to be done for at least another DLC. And hey, they seem to dedicated to making the game run faster after every update since Reapers' Due, and are actually pulling it off, so the more updates we get, the better for us potato computer users (somehow)

It can be, you personally can't get married, but you still can marry your brothers and sisters and pick their kids as successors.
 

Agame

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Holy Fury DLC = Still cannot start a game as a Holy Order.

But we have lolrandom animal kingdoms!!

GTFO Paradox.

Holy Order gameplay might be a bit unwieldy due to the Dynastic focus of CKII.

Also, this update is meaty as hell, even if it took so long for Paradox to finally fix the damn Crusades in a game about Crusades.

I'm hoping this is not the final DLC, I think there's enough to be done for at least another DLC. And hey, they seem to dedicated to making the game run faster after every update since Reapers' Due, and are actually pulling it off, so the more updates we get, the better for us potato computer users (somehow)

Yea I understand that, it doesnt fit the dynasty system, but there has got to be a way to do it. Even if they fudge it around to make it work in a very simple way and its not historically correct, there is so much in CK2 that isnt historical now eg. Sunset invasions, randomized worlds, etc.

Im not bashing what they have done as the Holy Fury DLC looks fine. I am annoyed after so many years and DLC that holy orders aren't officially playable, and this was very clearly the time to do it if they were going to.

They even have a Teutonic knight on the splash screen to rub it in.

I just want to 'Deus Vult' those awful slavic pagans with my righteous Teuton knights!!
 
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Vaarna_Aarne will be happy, tribal is definitely viable as a long-term plan now.

- Tribes can now raise retinues with pure prestige.
- Pure infantry you can raise 150 of for only 100 retinue cap at a 25 prestige cost.
- The money-based upgrades for tribal holdings gives 100 retinue cap from the fort and 20 from the market (multiplied by your tech of course).
Results in tribes being able to maintain huge armies basically for free. In 1066 a demesne of 9-10 will easily allow around 15k-20k light infantry. Of course by this point you're probably better off trading for the light infantry/heavy infantry mix

Additionally:
- Reforming to Agnatic or Enatic puts you in open succession (i.e. what muslims use). Meaning your worst succession law becomes arguably the easiest and strongest.
- Great Holy Wars are now much better since you can be religious head and determine where they go. No shitty GHWs aimed across the map or at a single duchy. Get the exact kingdom you want every 30 years like clockwork. The religious icon in the religious tab tell you when the next GHW can be declared (same for crusades).
- Warrior Lodges are pretty amazing. Great stats/traits, make it more likely to kidnap people in sieges (so you can breed them with your dynasty for claims, or for bloodlines now), last level literally makes it impossible for you to die in battle (dunno if it prevents being vegetablized, I'd hope so). Once you have a decent weapon and armor in your inventory you'll win almost all duels so it's very low risk. Dueling is also pretty good in general, you can antagonize basically anyone on the map into becoming your rival and dueling you, which is a rather OP way to cause lots of internal strife in big kingdoms/empires when you execute their ruler.
- You can pillage feudal holdings for cash and tech like Nomads do. It is a bit annoying though since unlike them you'll eat the penalty for too large demesne for a few years while doing so.

Only thing I don't terribly like is the traits. Each religion's warrior lodge has a specific combat trait. For some it's amazing, Africans get +20% light infantry and +20% desert combat, so that's basically two great, applicable traits in one that stack with the light infantry and desert combat traits you'd normally pick as an African ruler. Tengri get light cavalry and plains/steppe bonus, Zun gets siege, speed and mountains/deserts. But poor Suomensko only gets winter combat/arctic terrain/10% defense, and I don't think some of the first two traits even work (like supply limit, it seems to stay the same). They also don't get a decent heavy infantry prestige retinue to go along with their cultural bonus. Norse are in the same bag as Suomi.

Two other semi-complaints I have so far:
- Orthodox is definitely looking like the black sheep of religions. It has nothing. Christians went from meh to incredible now that Crusades are so good, basically all of Christendom pays you gold, prestige and piety for winning holy wars. Pagans were pretty good before and are now quite overpowered, Islam was always powerful, Orthodox gets...? Yeah, no reason not to go Hellenic. The Hellenic bonuses are particularly good too. You still get the Byzantine special government for flavor.
- AI pagan realms are waaaaay too happy to mass convert to non-pagan religions right now. In The Old Gods start you can see every major pagan realm in Europe converting before 1066.
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

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Well making retinue match bonuses is solely a matter of a tiny bit of modding if I'd care to do it, so it's kinda open in regards to how much of a problem that is.

Getting to use Open with Tribal is really really beneficial tho.

(Also I'm not entirely sure but I think the Winter Supply Limit bonus works, it just doesn't update on the UI; at least I'm p sure it used to work since it saved me a lot of skellingtons in Gnacht from re-dying from frostbite)
 
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It's not a huge problem. You're still arguably overpowered, it's just a bit annoying that there's a significant power disparity. Zun is probably the most OP, you can get +160% siege speed if you stack it with architect and siege leader w/ 30 martial. Siege Constantinople in a month or two.
 

oscar

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To be fair it wasn't a great time period for Orthodoxy. The rise of Muscovy as Third Rome is outside the game's timeframe and in general the medieval era was a prolonged gradual retreat of the Byzantines to their powerless irrelevancy by the commencement of the Europa Universalis series.
 

Mortmal

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This is a good as hell expansion. Lots of interesting new mechanics and a boatload of new events for some previously neglected cultures and religions. Core Catholic Feudal experience has also been juiced up a lot.

Wonder if they had someone new behind this? Seems a lot more energetic, well-thought out and deeper than the other expansions.
Yes and strangely so few bugs and nothing serious broken... Lot more content in this dlc than the previous ones, its one of the must have so far.
 
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The best way for Rome to truly rise is to realize it fell because Marcion was right.

Unfortunately, for that you need a Gnosticism DLC, as without it some of the mods even enable you to literally become a Tondrakian emperor. And nothing happens.

Tondrakians (Armenian: Թոնդրակեաններ) were members of an anti-feudal, heretical Christian sect that flourished in medieval Armenia between the early 9th century and 11th century and centered on the city of Tondrak, north of Lake Van in Western Armenia.

The founder of the movement was Smbat Zarehavantsi, who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all of its traditional rites. Tondrakians denied the immortality of the soul, the afterlife, the church and its feudal rights. They supported property rights for peasants, as well as equality between men and women.[citation needed] Tondrakians organized their communities in much the same fashion as did the early Christians under the Roman Empire during the first three centuries.[citation needed] They also participated in the peasant revolts of the 10th century, particularly in Ayrarat and Syunik. The Tondrakian movement resembled the Paulician movement in many ways, and various scholars consider it a continuation of the Paulician movement under different conditions, when Armenia was independent.[citation needed] The Paulician movement was of a social nature and simultaneously a resistance movement, directed against the Arabs and Byzantines, while the Tondrakian movement primarily had a social character and was used as a tool for class warfare.[citation needed]

In the early 10th century, many regions of Armenia were undergoing peasant uprisings, which also first began in forms of open social protests, eventually adopting religious aspects. Contemporary historian and eyewitness Hovhanes Draskhanakertsi describes how the peasants of Ayrarat fought against their feudal lords and landowners: destroying their castles and property. Peasant revolts appear also in Syunik. After the construction of Tatev Monastery was completed in 906, the ownership of the adjacent villages was transferred by a special princely edict to the monks of the monastery. Flatly refusing to obey this edict, the peasants of Tsuraberd, Tamalek, Aveladasht and other villages carried on a prolonged struggle against the churchgoers. Several times, this revolt transformed into an open uprising. With the aid of Smbat, the prince of Syunik, the monastery managed after a while to take control of Aveladasht and Tamalek. The struggle to take control of Tsuraberd bore a bloodier nature. Here, the peasants attacked the monastery and plundered it. Smbat eventually suppressed the uprising. However, after a short while, the people of Tsuraberd revolted again. Peasant uprisings continued with interruptions throughout the 10th century. In 990, the King of Syunik, Vasak, burned down Tsuraberd and pacified its inhabitants. This led to the widespread acceptance of the Tondrakian movement among the lower classes of people in the late 10th century.

After the suppression of the peasant revolts, the Tondrakians suffered a minor decline. However, by the beginning of the 11th century, the movement enveloped many regions of Armenia. Tondrakian villages and communities appeared in Upper Armenia, Vaspurakan, Mokq and other provinces. Historians mention various leaders of the Tondrakians of this time such as Thoros, Ananes, Hakop and Sarkis. The wide acceptance of the movement began to worry secular and spiritual feudal lords, Byzantine authorities and even Muslims.

Armenian secular and spiritual feudal lords joined forces with neighbouring Muslim Arab emirs as well as Byzantines in the persecution of Tondrakians. The movement quickly spread to Shirak, Turuberan and the Armenian regions of Taron, Hark and Mananali that were subject to Byzantium, after acquiring the nature of people's liberation struggle against the Byzantine expansion to their overall ideology. After suffering a number of defeats at the hands of Byzantium, most Tondrakians were deported to Thrace in the 10th century. Following the Byzantine conquest of the Bagratuni Kingdom of Ani in 1045, the movement experienced a new resurgence, this time within large cities like Ani where they began appealing to the lower ranks of the nobility and the clergy. The Tondrakian movement broke into three different directions during its last years, the most radical of which began advocating atheism as well as doubt in the afterlife and the immortality of the human soul. By the middle of the 11th century, the Byzantine governor of Taron and Vaspurakan, Gregory Magistros, managed to eliminate all remnants of Tondrakians. Historian Aristakes Lastivertsi describes the elimination of Tondrakians in great detail.

Tenth century Armenian theologian and monk Gregory of Narek wrote a critical summary of Tondrakian doctrines in his Letter to the Abbot of Kchaw Concerning the Refutation of the Accursed Tondrakians. He lists the following among other accusations:

  1. They deny our ordination, which the apostles received from Christ.
  2. They deny the Holy Communion as the true body and blood of Christ.
  3. They deny our Baptism as being mere bath water.
  4. They consider Sunday as on a level with other days.
  5. They refuse genuflection.
  6. They deny the veneration of the cross.
  7. They ordain each other and thus follow self-conferred priesthood.
  8. They do not accept marriage as a sacrament.
  9. They reject the matagh[1] as being a Jewish practice.
  10. They are sexually promiscuous.
 

Fedora Master

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The pre-1066 starts are still completely unplayabe. Moreso than before even. In my current game Islam dominates the entire world and there is absolutely NOTHING that can bring an Islamic empire down.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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The pre-1066 starts are still completely unplayabe. Moreso than before even. In my current game Islam dominates the entire world and there is absolutely NOTHING that can bring an Islamic empire down.
Go pagan and do it yourself. Albeit, it's sort of hard but raid-as-sabotage always works.
 

fantadomat

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The pre-1066 starts are still completely unplayabe. Moreso than before even. In my current game Islam dominates the entire world and there is absolutely NOTHING that can bring an Islamic empire down.
Go pagan and do it yourself. Albeit, it's sort of hard but raid-as-sabotage always works.
I begun a game as Bulgar Khanate as early as possible. I had no problems with the kebab. Just have a bunch of castles and upgrade them as much as possible. 200 in the game and i have like 2000 personal army. Still i do use an immortal king. I got pissed when Constantinople became a tent city once it got converted to my culture,still have its buildings but it looks ugly as shit.
 

Fedora Master

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The pre-1066 starts are still completely unplayabe. Moreso than before even. In my current game Islam dominates the entire world and there is absolutely NOTHING that can bring an Islamic empire down.
Go pagan and do it yourself. Albeit, it's sort of hard but raid-as-sabotage always works.

I'm trying for the White Hun achievement so I'm stuck with Hinduism at best.
 

Preben

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The best way for Rome to truly rise is to realize it fell because Marcion was right.
Rome fell because of many reasons,on of which was accepting Christianity thus destabilizing the empire and loosing any semblance of unity. Late Rome was very like modern day western Europa,tolerant and liberal.


Rome lost any semblance of unity once the Crisis of the Third Century kicked in. The adoption of Christianity was a desperate gamble to restore that unity.

Rome's fall is absolutely unrelated to religion. It has much more to do with the fact that Rome had a plunder economy and run out of territory to plunder.
 

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