Editorial CNN talks gaming and religion with developers

[DarkSign]

The problem with any sort of religious game is that religion deals with an inner dialog that people have.

If you made a game where you tried to proselytize people two problems arise:
a) how do you illustrate the issues and problems of conversion?
b) how do you make sure its not merely a numbers game (Ive converted 10,000 and youve converted 5,000 - boo ya!) which dengrates the value of even one conversion?

Let's take faith...which for Christianity is probably the biggest issue of them all, followed probably by loving others (through thoughts and deeds)..and figure out how you would take a character through a character arc from non-faith to faith:

character is in non-belief
character is exposed to The Word
character has to decide whether to believe or not
character has to decide how to act on The Word
character must experience problems that arouse doubt
character must struggle with internal beliefs
character then acts on those beliefs in the world somehow

uhm...not the greatest gameplay.


The very fact that something comes to videogame as a medium, while I love them and am not religious at all, denegrates religion. Videogames are cartoony at best and lacking in sophistication enough to mirror true life.

Religion and videogames are a bad mix, imo.

 

[Killzig]

You could make a CRUSADE video game. Maybe update it to modern times and have a Crusader suicide bomber blowing up some palestinian refugee camp. You could call the game CRUSADES ARE JIHADS AND JIHADS PUT THE FUN BACK IN FUNDAMENTALISM. maybe a little long for a title but definitely an explosive marketing campaign.

 

[DarkSign]

/groan

And ideas like that are why religious games dont get made. Im fine with that actually, but you've illustrated the cause better than I did.

 

[Killzig]

It's what I do.

K I S S.

It just wouldn't ever make compelling gameplay. You can certainly throw in religious themes if you want to spice things up but the idea of a religious game is sheer sillyness.

 

[Sarvis]

I think some good games are possible using the Christian Mythology, certainly. A war between Heaven and Hell for an RTS, a post Rapture survival horror game, an RPG about escaping from Hell.

But a game that actually promoted Christian values... well, just harder to imagine. Not impossible, just harder.

I mean, if a game about farming can sell then why not a game about following the Ten Commandments in different situations? Possibly done in the style of a Japanese dating sim or The Sims...

Of course, historically you could do a Crusades RTS or an Inquisition survival horror or possibly even a Salem Witch mystery game.

 

[Fez]

M:TW had crusades and Jihads. Religous elements can add something to a game, a religious game doesn't work, as Killzig pointed out.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

It just might, but it might just as well appeal to religious people, or people on the verge of being converted. And even then I could be too optimistic.

I just want to see Jesus Freakin' be released ASAP.

 

[Txiasaeia]

I promise that in the end of days, you will all get what you deserve. That much is certain.

Why do you assume that we're all "unfaithful" and "heathens" here? I really don't understand how saying something like "What would you assholes know about religion?" is bringing glory to the Lord. Don't you understand that, by participating in these childish flame wars, you're making all of Christianity look bad?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

character is in non-belief
character is exposed to The Word
character has to decide whether to believe or not
character has to decide how to act on The Word
character must experience problems that arouse doubt
character must struggle with internal beliefs
character then acts on those beliefs in the world somehow

uhm...not the greatest gameplay.

Actually, you could make a good game out of that, but it would be highly tricky to do right. The big problem would be to convince a publisher of making a game like that, though. There's just not enough arcady action there.

 

[LlamaGod]

If you make a religious game something besides pro-christian everyone will get all pissy and hissy.

Better to have religion elements in games then actual religion games, like how its done in MTW and Civilization 4.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'd like to see the implementation of the concept of religion, rather than religion itself, in games. For instance, LlamaGod's example of religion in Civ 4 and MTW, or Black & White's and Populous's worshippers.

Now on the other hand, if you wanted to make a Christian-themed game, it wouldn't be very difficult. Granted, it would cater to Christians alone, but you could probably do a lot with that in an RPG or MMORPG. Quests could be Chrisitan-oriented with Christian-oriented goals. Players would be tasked to do something 'Christian-like', and their decisions would matter in determining how 'Christian' their character was. For example, you could be tasked to acquire a magical object. How you go about acquiring it would be the quest itself, and in this case it could be very well designed. You could just go up and steal it from someone who already owns it, and while you would get experience points for it, your reputation would decrease and your character would become 'evil'. On the other hand, if you found some better albeit more difficult way to do it, you would become more 'good'.

The game itself doesn't have to be entirely pro-Christian, in that doing anything unChristian would screw you. Rather, give the players a choice on how they opt to role-play, and in the endgame, the Good players and the Evil players will fight in some kind of eternal battlefield. That way, the game would appeal to gamers other than the most hardcore of Christians. While implementing the choices of good vs evil might offend some fundamentalists, the larger majority of Christians (e.g. the moderates) would probably find the whole aspect of gameplay very, very appealing. As would many non Christians.

It'd be a good way to promote the religion, too.

 

[DarkSign]

the Good players and the Evil players will fight in some kind of eternal battlefield.

Well there's your first problem, genius. Christianity promotes NOT fighting. Love your enemies. So have fun going out on the battlefield and loving each other.

Players would be tasked to do something 'Christian-like', and their decisions would matter in determining how 'Christian' their character was.

Yeah loving your neighbor is just so easy to put into videogame form. Helping the poor, the elderly, the blind...it all translates into easy gameplay...NOT.

Again it wouldnt be easy to make a Christian game at all. To be honest Ex, you've just proven why its NOT easy. Religion is about the internal dialog that you have with God. Not much gameplay there.

Now if your're not going for a Christian game and just a game with religion as the plot-driver...sure an RTS of fundamentalist arabs blowing people up and making them submit to take over a country would be easy. Yes I said arabs because Im really pissed off about the London bombing. Eurocentric Christians have fucked things up...and Im not one so dont think Im not equal opportunity. Arab Muslims are only the most recent fuck ups.

My best friend is an Indonesian Muslim who would never harm a fly but the stuff that is spawning out of that pocket of the world is literally insane.

Back to the topic at hand. IMO it would be next to impossible to make an interesting Christian game. Perhaps an interactive Dante's Divine Comedy would be fascinating.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well there's your first problem, genius. Christianity promotes NOT fighting. Love your enemies. So have fun going out on the battlefield and loving each other.

Umm, yeah. Right.

That explains the upcoming Christian-based RTS Eternal Forces, right?

The Bible is full of epic battles, and that can translate into good gameplay if anyone ever bothered to do it. It's got aspects of betrayal (Judas), salvation (Paul), martyrism (John the Baptist). All sorts of good stuff there. I fail to see how that could translate poorly into a game. The Bible's even got its assortment of heroes (Michael, Gabriel, etc) and its monsters (The big bad himself, Lucifer.)

 

[voodoo1man]

Well there's your first problem, genius. Christianity promotes NOT fighting. Love your enemies. So have fun going out on the battlefield and loving each other.

To quote the good book:

A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!

 

[Sarvis]

Well there's your first problem, genius. Christianity promotes NOT fighting. Love your enemies. So have fun going out on the battlefield and loving each other.

To quote the good book:

A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!

Err... to quote the Good Book:

Thou Shalt Not Kill.

Too bad God was such a bad writer he couldn't keep from contradicting himself, eh?

 

[Human Shield]

Kids: Convert the Heathens, Convert the Heathens!

Bart: Yeah! i got one!

Kids: No, you just nicked him. Now he's Unitarian

 

[Greatatlantic]

I get the feeling I might be the most religious person who posts here, if for no other reason than I actually practice. And I would be very interested in a religious themed game, but doubt it will come along. I'm certainly not interested in that Left Behind game I heard was coming out, I'm Catholic. I'm sure publishers would love to tap into the large Christian market in this county, however no one so far has had the skill to combine the two things, religious message and artistic merit. Chances are you'd get a hokey product that feel shallow to gamers and religious people. You also have to try to create a game that could appeal to the different Christian groups. A game based on taking the bible fundamentally could never appeal to Catholics, and a game based around following the pope's orders could never appeal to Protestants.

Here's an idea, have a game take place in about 60 a.d., which I think is the year Nero instituted the first major persecution of Christians. Let the PC be a former assasin who was asked by the bishop of Rome to free some Christians taken captive to be killed soon. However, he can't use any violence. This could be a stealth game or an RPG. Along the way you can witness various Christians rituals such as baptism or hear some deacon lecture on theology.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I like that idea. Personally I would prefer to see a real life setting in the modern day or medieval period in which a character, say a criminal or assassin earns his salvation through deeds and even though the player can commit murder and revenge and such, each action he commits, whether right or wrong, would result in some moral consequence. One of the lead characters, I think, could be a Jesuit priest who helps him along the path of righteousness. You could of course opt to ignore him, but the bad guys, being bad guys with no morals, would just as easily betray you as soon as you do what they want, and that would be an object lesson in itself.

It'd make for a pretty good RPG, with the game not ending if you decide to choose the bad path. I think that the player could earn a second chance to redeem himself if he does that. Some 'inner dialogue' could convince the character to pursue the path of righteousness.

Granted, the game would have to be as linear as Baldur's Gate 2, but that wouldn't be a bad thing at all, especially if you're trying to tell a good story. Character interaction would be extremely important, as would the dialogue. The player would have to care about his character and the other characters in the world, much like the Nameless One cared for Deionerra in Planescape: Torment.

I would prefer if the game were Catholic-oriented, rather than fundamentalist oriented, due to the willingness of Jesuits and other Catholics to explore humanity's darker aspects, rather than ignoring them.

 

[DarkSign]

Ok. Looks like people are taking crap out of the Bible as they see fit and out of context.

The Old Testiment, which is about discipline and order, Christ says he is bringing a "new covenant" of love your enemies.

The "eternal battles" perhaps could be about angels and demons, but there you go jumping off into la la land...not reality.

Again tell me how you quantify a loss & regain of faith? tell me how you make interesting gameplay out of rts style helping the sick and poor?

Religion is too internal and subjective. Period.

 

[Atrokkus]

Hmm?
Religion has always been in RPGs.
Forgotten Realms had LOTs of religious sects, many of them clearly resembling their real-world counterparts.

The difference is that in alternative worlds such as FR I want to believe in gods, because I *know* they exist and affect the world, while in the real world I know that it's just a myth and have little interest in them.



a lil' offtopic:

Granted, the game would have to be as linear as Baldur's Gate 2, but that wouldn't be a bad thing at all, especially if you're trying to tell a good story. Character interaction would be extremely important, as would the dialogue. The player would have to care about his character and the other characters in the world, much like the Nameless One cared for Deionerra in Planescape: Torment.

See, and you still tell me that Torment is adventure, while clearly admiring its characters and their interaction, which is a pure RPG element.

 

[DarkSign]

Thats not true religion. Thats a characterization and cartoonization of it.

 

[Atrokkus]

Hah, what is a true religion then?

What's the major difference between believing in Lathander and Allah
There is a difference: Lathander exists, while Allah (or God or whatever) doesn't.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Ok. Looks like people are taking crap out of the Bible as they see fit and out of context.

The Old Testiment, which is about discipline and order, Christ says he is bringing a "new covenant" of love your enemies.

The "eternal battles" perhaps could be about angels and demons, but there you go jumping off into la la land...not reality.

Again tell me how you quantify a loss & regain of faith? tell me how you make interesting gameplay out of rts style helping the sick and poor?

Religion is too internal and subjective. Period.

Not if you're catholic. I don't see what's so subjective about listening to what the Pope has to say.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I do not speak for god but it would be folly to think that any of you are worthy in the eyes of the lord.

Erm... Not to pop your cherry or anything but shouldn't that be: God and Lord, you heathen, you?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Ok. Looks like people are taking crap out of the Bible as they see fit and out of context.

That sounds just like most religions that are around today! :D