bryce777
Erudite
cars: First, who really cares? Second, one working car that we see, plus a garage that services maybe 2-3 cars. Out of hundreds of millions of cars, I'd think some would survive to some degree and over time they could be salvaged. You can buy that robot war machines would last 100 years without being maintained in the glow, but not that cars with no doubt extremely modular components might be salvagable given enough time and energy.
guns: Well, this is largely true, I suppose. But, who cares? This is as nitpicky as it gets and most people have no idea that that is a belgian gun. I definitely did not. This just shows the energy put into criticizing this game.
population: Assuming that there is enough arable land and water that is not contaminated, population will grow. Also, they stated that NCR had been gathering people to its ranks from far and wide - isolated surivors and nomads barely able to eke out a living coming together. And again, their numbers are still probably very small. I believe the census was only a few thousand. NCR would also have grown. Also, as I said before counting pixels is simply ridiculous. new Reno could easily have tons of slaverun farms, and I am sure there are lots of people who are not prostitutes or drug dealers. The total count of the gangs is less than 100. There coulde asily be 100 thugs totally in control of a community of 1000 and living off them completely. The idiocy of this argument assumes the whole town is composed of gangsters, instead of just run by them. The drugs etc. would just be a way to make more money and spread some influence. The jet comes from mutated brahmin shit and would take far less effort to produce than heroin or mescaline would. I doubt you could grow poppies well enough in reno for it to be feasible, and with mescaline it's either around to harvest or it isn't. Also, jet is much more addictive, making it a much more attractive drug. And again, you seem to think it's fine that the master can run the most top secret lab in the word, even after it's been defunct for 80 years, but that a simple process to create a drug (which is cheap and was readily explained) is impossible 80 years later in a presumably much larger community/
Setting: I was around in the 50s. I remember them fondly for the most part. Fallout 1 draws from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And, *gasp*, there actually were gangsters in the 40s, 50s, and 60s as well as the 30s. You can't tell me the khans are not a classic 60s biker gang, period.
I also can't think of anything in fallout 2 that ties NR to the 30s. Nothing. A few goons in pinstripes as bouncers is not enough for me. That is an obvious put-on thing, and none of the lead mobsters or his lieutenants acted like it was the 30s. So, the entire basis of it coming from the 30s is based on watching a few al capone movies, and the art style of a couple of perks. How ridiculous is that? Oh, is it the tommy guns? Those are still used even today, your realize. They are actually far superior to some crappy ak47. Same with grease guns. I have seen both, and it was in either the 60s or early 70s, I do not remember. They also borrow heavily from mad max and road warrior, as well. And in fallout 2, from thunderdome - the whole brahmin shit, kidnap myron, slaves thing. Taht is not set int he 50s, unless I am sorely mistaken.
Most of all, when making a new game, you need something different. You do need some new material. There are only so many issues of Amazing Wonders! Or whatever the magazines I used to read were. Some of them are also far goofier, by far. They could also have chosen to go to outer space, but then I can just imagine the screaming that would have caused. The real complaint is to some extent they had fun with things, and honestly you people would have complained about ANY sequel that had been made, period. As for it not having a story, I find that ridiculous - there is a drawn out questline between ncr, new reno and vault city and gecko, and I thought it was immensely well done.
guns: Well, this is largely true, I suppose. But, who cares? This is as nitpicky as it gets and most people have no idea that that is a belgian gun. I definitely did not. This just shows the energy put into criticizing this game.
population: Assuming that there is enough arable land and water that is not contaminated, population will grow. Also, they stated that NCR had been gathering people to its ranks from far and wide - isolated surivors and nomads barely able to eke out a living coming together. And again, their numbers are still probably very small. I believe the census was only a few thousand. NCR would also have grown. Also, as I said before counting pixels is simply ridiculous. new Reno could easily have tons of slaverun farms, and I am sure there are lots of people who are not prostitutes or drug dealers. The total count of the gangs is less than 100. There coulde asily be 100 thugs totally in control of a community of 1000 and living off them completely. The idiocy of this argument assumes the whole town is composed of gangsters, instead of just run by them. The drugs etc. would just be a way to make more money and spread some influence. The jet comes from mutated brahmin shit and would take far less effort to produce than heroin or mescaline would. I doubt you could grow poppies well enough in reno for it to be feasible, and with mescaline it's either around to harvest or it isn't. Also, jet is much more addictive, making it a much more attractive drug. And again, you seem to think it's fine that the master can run the most top secret lab in the word, even after it's been defunct for 80 years, but that a simple process to create a drug (which is cheap and was readily explained) is impossible 80 years later in a presumably much larger community/
Setting: I was around in the 50s. I remember them fondly for the most part. Fallout 1 draws from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And, *gasp*, there actually were gangsters in the 40s, 50s, and 60s as well as the 30s. You can't tell me the khans are not a classic 60s biker gang, period.
I also can't think of anything in fallout 2 that ties NR to the 30s. Nothing. A few goons in pinstripes as bouncers is not enough for me. That is an obvious put-on thing, and none of the lead mobsters or his lieutenants acted like it was the 30s. So, the entire basis of it coming from the 30s is based on watching a few al capone movies, and the art style of a couple of perks. How ridiculous is that? Oh, is it the tommy guns? Those are still used even today, your realize. They are actually far superior to some crappy ak47. Same with grease guns. I have seen both, and it was in either the 60s or early 70s, I do not remember. They also borrow heavily from mad max and road warrior, as well. And in fallout 2, from thunderdome - the whole brahmin shit, kidnap myron, slaves thing. Taht is not set int he 50s, unless I am sorely mistaken.
Most of all, when making a new game, you need something different. You do need some new material. There are only so many issues of Amazing Wonders! Or whatever the magazines I used to read were. Some of them are also far goofier, by far. They could also have chosen to go to outer space, but then I can just imagine the screaming that would have caused. The real complaint is to some extent they had fun with things, and honestly you people would have complained about ANY sequel that had been made, period. As for it not having a story, I find that ridiculous - there is a drawn out questline between ncr, new reno and vault city and gecko, and I thought it was immensely well done.
MF said:I'll drag out an ancient argument against New Reno from the depths of V13.
It's inconsistent with Fallout 1. Blatantly. In many places. Both lieterally very obvious and subtle and obscure. There is an enormous list of cases in point, but I'll pick a few from memory starting with the peeve.
Fallout 1 :
No working cars
Fallout 280 years later)
Car fleet, a garage in New Reno. In fact, it's a 'pimp-my-ride' garage in New Reno. To hell with getting a car to even run (we're not talking about a relatively simple combustion engine. There is no petroleum so the cars are powered by fusion.), let's pimp it.
Fallout 1 :
No post-1960 guns, except for the Desert Eagle. (Let's call that a slip-up) The guns are fictional and generic and not based on real world guns. I loved that, creating a world with a nice fictional weapons industry.
Fallout 2 :
Full of real world guns. I don't care it's a Fabrique Nationale P90. Belgian firearms shouldn't be prevalent in a setting were Europe is just a "bunch of bickering city states". (fallout intro) Generic weapons don't have that problem. Which brings us to New Reno and the Tommy Guns. A Tommy Gun would actually fit Fallout very well, if it was a unique museum piece. Having a bunch of them with ammo to boot is complete nonsense. I can't see anyone argueing against this. "But Thompsons are cool!" is not an argument.
Fallout 1 :
No sign of city-level population density living in relative prosperity. The Hub is the most lively town, the Boneyard is full of pre-war tech hoarders and the Brotherhood of Steel is reclusive and functions pretty much like post-Roman-Empie catholic monks keeping knowledge intact after a collapse of society.
Fallout 2 (80 years later) :
In 80 years, Shady Sands has become a thriving republic with a fleet of cars and cozy homes even though the means are limited. While this is not beyond my ability to suspend disbelief (it's pushing it), the fact that there is a city close by dealing in drugs, prostitution, porn and gambling is. No one is going to synthesize a drug when there are natural products like opium, mescaline and alcohol available when they have no working laboratories. New Reno is economically isolated, but is explained away by parasiting off nearby communities. The only one we see is Redding, which is a ridiculous place all on its own. The existence of New Reno is never justified, there is no background, it just is. Even if it does fit the setting, I'd like that to be explained to me through the game world. There must be a hell of a story to that city if it is the way it is But there isn't. There is no story to New Reno. Just a lot of gimmicks and stuff to do.
The final argument is something hard to comprehend for most people and hard to explain so I won't explain it. I will make it. It doesn't fit the 50's theme. And it is there in Fallout. Brain bots, nuclear families, giant mutations (50's sci-fi), art deco and stream, the car designs, the dawn of communist fears, the die-cast metal design of the power armor, the macrotechnolgy versus microtechnology, the atomic race instead of the space race..etc etc.
If anyone is capable of giving me a synospis for a backstory that makes sense out of New Reno using these elements and reasoning from Fallout (1), I'd love to see it.
