Interview Codex Interview with MCA

[DarkUnderlord]

"Fallout 2 had a joke about poo, so I don't have a problem with Fallout Tactics being one big joke about poo."

Well, I guess that explains that then.

 

[Shagnak]

I'm drunk.
And I still think this whole Reno for/against thang is as anal as Gary Glitter.

PS
I think Bryciue and Section8 r hawt can you pleeeeze behave ta thanx bye

PPS KC u owe me a blow

 

[Shagnak]

reno wus fine honest
really there is other dshit that is more worthy of being all menstrual abut
honist

 

[Jason]

 

[bryce777]

Do you think that it is a simple operation to supply alcohol to the entire united states? Or so supply heroin or cocaine? No, it is not. Pablo Escobar owned hundreds of farms used to produce coca leaves, for example. Crime bosses in Russia own as many legitimate businesses as anyone else.

I think his point was that this was too complex for the PA setting.

In China, there was once a pirate fleet with over 80,000 pirates all led by the same pirate queen.

One pirate queen != four competing gangster families.

the ganster setting fitted perfectly with the 50's theme that is an essencial part of fallout.

The gangster period was during Prohibition, in the 30's.

If you complain about new reno because of the sophistication of the crime organizations you should be equally pissed by by gizmo (was that his name?) running a casino in the middle of the radiated wasteland in fallout 1.

One crime boss is not the same as having four competing crime families.

First off, it was me that said all that. Except the gizmo thing.

Four 'crime bosses'. These guys had a dozen or two men, each, at most. The one guy had a total of three fucking henchmen. The other one was an actual family. As someone said it is a sort of tribal setup with the trappings of oldtime gangsters. And not MUCH trappings...most of it is in the fucking perk descriptions, ffs.

Fallout draws from the past, but is not limited to the 50s. Plenty of shit from the 60s. I lived in the 50s and I know. there were no fucking bikers then for instance. Not like you think of today, anyhow.

"I think his point was that this was too complex for the PA setting." Brewing booze is the simplest thing int he universe. Are you seriousl suggesting the master can run a huge fucking factory with the fev virus in order to dip mutants, and a few goombahs in the desert can't distill some motherfucking whiskey?


What annoys me about this is that people are so elitist and full of shit that it's no wonder companies don't bother catering to this crowd; how the fuck can you please people who are this ludicrously finicky?

 

[Mantiis]

"I think his point was that this was too complex for the PA setting." Brewing booze is the simplest thing int he universe. Are you seriousl suggesting the master can run a huge fucking factory with the fev virus in order to dip mutants, and a few goombahs in the desert can't distill some motherfucking whiskey?


What annoys me about this is that people are so elitist and full of shit that it's no wonder companies don't bother catering to this crowd; how the fuck can you please people who are this ludicrously finicky?

You win. Said so much better than I could ever hope to.

 

[Seboss]

Right. You would settle for mediocrity because there are people intelligent and perceptive enough to point out inconsistencies and faults ?

 

[callehe]

Obviously, you can't count the fucking numbers otherwise the encounters alone would say there are 500 bandits for every dirt farmer out there.

exactly. you _have_ see the game as something abstract. if you just count sprites on the screen and extrapolate - then of course you'll find the game inconsistent and flawed in terms of realism.

 

[Mantiis]

Right. You would settle for mediocrity because there are people intelligent and perceptive enough to point out inconsistencies and faults ?

Good arguments have been made to rebuff these "faults" but you and certain people seem to be ignoring them and sticking to your "zomg casinos suck! fallout 2 sux!" guns. Who would possibly think that humans would move on after the bombs drop.

 

[Brother None]

Four 'crime bosses'. These guys had a dozen or two men, each, at most. The one guy had a total of three fucking henchmen. The other one was an actual family. As someone said it is a sort of tribal setup with the trappings of oldtime gangsters. And not MUCH trappings...most of it is in the fucking perk descriptions, ffs.

Aye, and there were only a few dozen people in NCR

Fleet of cars, baby!

Uhm, I mean...the families were big, well-organised organisations. This isn't shown by the actual number of henchman, because Fallout is not "ZOMG big world" like modern CRPGs are obliged to be, but it is implied by the number of henchman shown (roughly equal in number of NCR's guard force) and the influence spread.

Fallout draws from the past, but is not limited to the 50s. Plenty of shit from the 60s. I lived in the 50s and I know.

Then you should also know this cool-style gangster stuff is not from the 50s or 60s, it *is* from the 20s/30s. And while Fallout does sometimes overlap into the 60s past, saying it "draws from the past, but is not limited to the 50s" means sword-fighting knights are fine, as much as gangsters are. What're you limiting it to?

Brewing booze is the simplest thing int he universe. Are you seriousl suggesting the master can run a huge fucking factory with the fev virus in order to dip mutants, and a few goombahs in the desert can't distill some motherfucking whiskey?

Brewing booze vs. brewing FEV is not the point, thanks for missing that completely.

The point is organisation and structure.

Crime families do not exist on their own. They exist as leeches to society. They can *not* exist without a seperate state organisation, they never have. Just like without a proper organisation society can not evolve beyond "Me Grunthar!", crime families can not go beyond mobs of highwaymen.

And this is what Fallout 1 expressed where Fallout 2 in the form of New Reno failed. Those hundreds of bandits mentioned elsewhere are all seperate roaming bands, surviving because they leech of trade caravans and hunt animals. Of course their numbers don't match the number of farmers, but we all know there were more people in the Hub "than displayed".

New Reno seems to imply a society that exists only on drugs and alcohol and gambling in a time when most people are probably starving of droughts. This makes no sense. Where's the revenue coming from? Where's the surpluss cash to *invest* into crime? Where's the structured society they can exist on? NCR? NCR hates them, they do not exist within NCR, they exist outside of it.

Fallout 1 understood better that crime exists only within societies, not as a seperate entity. Gizmo lived off Junktown and if he ran Junktown he would've been hardpressed not to push on some legitimate bussiness as well. The Hub wasn't run by outlaws, the outlaws were just there to make a buck of it. Every town exists through agriculture and trade.

So that leaves New Reno, with nothing to trade but drugs and booze which the nearest major powers (Vault City and NCR) have a ban on. Sure you could slip in enough drugs and booze to run a small illegal racket, but found a city on it? Dumbest thing I ever heard of.

Russia is a good example of all the above, if you need proof. Understand Russia's crime mentality, understand that to become as big as they do they have to be integrated into legitimate society rather than just pumping out drugs. Understand, also, that roaming bandits and pirates can much more easily exist within scattered semi-civilised civilizations, because all they do is leech of excess food and cash in a very limited amount, rather than the huge amounts which is required to run a crime organisations properly.

Nope, truth is Fallout's world is not organised enough to support crime of that size. Even with NCR.

 

[bryce777]

Right. You would settle for mediocrity because there are people intelligent and perceptive enough to point out inconsistencies and faults ?

Except that it is ludicrous nitpicking. Obviously, you could not possibly drive around in the area the game takes place in. It is completely impossible with no roads (which do not seem to exist). Yet, no one sreams about this...instead they scream about something obviously perfectly plausible and it is really pretty pathetic.

 

[bryce777]

Four 'crime bosses'. These guys had a dozen or two men, each, at most. The one guy had a total of three fucking henchmen. The other one was an actual family. As someone said it is a sort of tribal setup with the trappings of oldtime gangsters. And not MUCH trappings...most of it is in the fucking perk descriptions, ffs.

Aye, and there were only a few dozen people in NCR

Fleet of cars, baby!

Uhm, I mean...the families were big, well-organised organisations. This isn't shown by the actual number of henchman, because Fallout is not "ZOMG big world" like modern CRPGs are obliged to be, but it is implied by the number of henchman shown (roughly equal in number of NCR's guard force) and the influence spread.

Fallout draws from the past, but is not limited to the 50s. Plenty of shit from the 60s. I lived in the 50s and I know.

Then you should also know this cool-style gangster stuff is not from the 50s or 60s, it *is* from the 20s/30s. And while Fallout does sometimes overlap into the 60s past, saying it "draws from the past, but is not limited to the 50s" means sword-fighting knights are fine, as much as gangsters are. What're you limiting it to?

Brewing booze is the simplest thing int he universe. Are you seriousl suggesting the master can run a huge fucking factory with the fev virus in order to dip mutants, and a few goombahs in the desert can't distill some motherfucking whiskey?

Brewing booze vs. brewing FEV is not the point, thanks for missing that completely.

The point is organisation and structure.

Crime families do not exist on their own. They exist as leeches to society. They can *not* exist without a seperate state organisation, they never have. Just like without a proper organisation society can not evolve beyond "Me Grunthar!", crime families can not go beyond mobs of highwaymen.

And this is what Fallout 1 expressed where Fallout 2 in the form of New Reno failed. Those hundreds of bandits mentioned elsewhere are all seperate roaming bands, surviving because they leech of trade caravans and hunt animals. Of course their numbers don't match the number of farmers, but we all know there were more people in the Hub "than displayed".

New Reno seems to imply a society that exists only on drugs and alcohol and gambling in a time when most people are probably starving of droughts. This makes no sense. Where's the revenue coming from? Where's the surpluss cash to *invest* into crime? Where's the structured society they can exist on? NCR? NCR hates them, they do not exist within NCR, they exist outside of it.

Fallout 1 understood better that crime exists only within societies, not as a seperate entity. Gizmo lived off Junktown and if he ran Junktown he would've been hardpressed not to push on some legitimate bussiness as well. The Hub wasn't run by outlaws, the outlaws were just there to make a buck of it. Every town exists through agriculture and trade.

So that leaves New Reno, with nothing to trade but drugs and booze which the nearest major powers (Vault City and NCR) have a ban on. Sure you could slip in enough drugs and booze to run a small illegal racket, but found a city on it? Dumbest thing I ever heard of.

Russia is a good example of all the above, if you need proof. Understand Russia's crime mentality, understand that to become as big as they do they have to be integrated into legitimate society rather than just pumping out drugs. Understand, also, that roaming bandits and pirates can much more easily exist within scattered semi-civilised civilizations, because all they do is leech of excess food and cash in a very limited amount, rather than the huge amounts which is required to run a crime organisations properly.

Nope, truth is Fallout's world is not organised enough to support crime of that size. Even with NCR.

I realize, obviously, that capone was from the 30s, but there were still gangsters later on as well - OR WHY WOULD I MAKE THAT FUCKING POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE? Also, NONE of the gangsters act like 30s gangsters and this is what really gets me about all the bitching. As for what belongs there, I would think Tim Cain, the guy who came up with fallout and came up with the idea for New Reno, would have a better idea what fits the setting than you me or serge.

As for the city, again there are two points you seem incapable of grasping - they are NOT gangsters in the traditional sense. When the gangsters take total power they are more than gangsters. In russia, they have almost total control of huge parts of the country. When a gangster is a billionaire he ceases to be a gangster in most people's minds, but at heart he is the same fellow. A king is is little different than a bandit unless he has power. As I said only a million fucking times, games have the same exact organization as a primitive tribe - which is EXACTLY the kind of organization that would come about at first after an apocalyptic event. And, just because you do not see every little town and every outlying farm does not mean they don't exist. Why the fuck would you want to talk to all the farmers, though? There are obviously more people, but I doubt it is even in the thousands - vault city, after all, has a population of 109.

 

[damaged_drone]

Right. You would settle for mediocrity because there are people intelligent and perceptive enough to point out inconsistencies and faults ?

 

[Jack_Deth]

Read the interview and it was mentioned talking about non-linear games and KOTOR and PT being linear. What RPG is totally non-linear, I don't remember any, they all have to follow some story that comes to an end at some point with something happening.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Read the interview and it was mentioned talking about non-linear games and KOTOR and PT being linear. What RPG is totally non-linear, I don't remember any, they all have to follow some story that comes to an end at some point with something happening.

Every story has a beginning and an end, just like your life begins and ends. The question is what happens after it begins and where and how it ends. Planescape is linear because B always follows A, and C always follows B. Fallout, for example, is non-linear, because you, not the story, choose what the next point is: B, C, D, or Z. Other examples are Arcanum, Wizardry 8, ToEE, Prelude to Darkness, Gearhead, Geneforge, etc.

 

[MF]

Fuckin' anti NRs are morons! NR symbolizes the true greatness of the FO series. It is awesome, and is pure FO. Anyonw who dislikes it is a FAKE Fallout fan.

Period.

A fake Fallout 2 fan, maybe. Which is no big deal, considering 70% of Fallout 2 was bullshit.

 

[AlanC9]

Problem is, it's a post apocaliptic world. People have to focus on survival. A small casino like Gizmo's may exist. But there aren't enough rich people in the wasteland, to justify a town FULL of casinos and prostitutes. People can't live off Jet, you know. They have to work sometimes, not be high all day. All right, some may steal, but from whom? From each other? From the prostitutes?

Reading this, it occurs to me that the real divide here is how bad you think the world is doing at the time of FO2. It's been a long time since the bombs dropped. We already saw towns and trade revived by the time of FO1. You could get a lot of population growth in 80 years, assuming you've got reasonably good agriculture.

Is it really a wasteland anymore?

 

[Walks with the Snails]

So basically you are saying "I don't think New Reno fitted in and you can't see that but you are wrong so it doesn't matter".

Awesome, I want to be you.

You should. Then you might be worth my time. This is just a boring and overdone argument that you and bryce are throwing a lot of energy into and then turning around and calling everyone else losers for caring too much when you're the only ones I see taking this all that seriously.

I liked new reno, I also believe it fitted in and this is the first I have heard of people not liking the place. The casinos I thought were there before the bombs dropped (I dont live in the US) so I thought the people living there just reused the left over buildings.

All you have said is "nukes dont belong in DnD so big casinos dont belong in fallout"; the arguments provided regarding new reno fitting into the fallout world are valid whether you like it or not, if you cannot give a rebuttal that isn't along the lines of "I'm right you are wrong" then possibly, just possibly you may be wrong and cannot see the whole picture.

Edit: and how were the casinos "Glitzy, busy"? They looked pretty run down to me.

They had functional lighting. For the period, it was rather nice. Who's making new lightbulbs, etc.? Carpet ain't gonna hold up for 160 years with traffic. Isn't the whole crux of the New Reno argument that there are supposed to be all these invisible people that don't matter, anway?

Except that it is ludicrous nitpicking. Obviously, you could not possibly drive around in the area the game takes place in. It is completely impossible with no roads (which do not seem to exist). Yet, no one sreams about this...instead they scream about something obviously perfectly plausible and it is really pretty pathetic.

Oh, bullshit. The car thing has been done to death, and most of the purists didn't think the car really fit, either. Just because you're getting to the argument 6 years late doesn't mean none of this has ever been discussed.

 

[bryce777]

So basically you are saying "I don't think New Reno fitted in and you can't see that but you are wrong so it doesn't matter".

Awesome, I want to be you.

You should. Then you might be worth my time. This is just a boring and overdone argument that you and bryce are throwing a lot of energy into and then turning around and calling everyone else losers for caring too much when you're the only ones I see taking this all that seriously.

I liked new reno, I also believe it fitted in and this is the first I have heard of people not liking the place. The casinos I thought were there before the bombs dropped (I dont live in the US) so I thought the people living there just reused the left over buildings.

All you have said is "nukes dont belong in DnD so big casinos dont belong in fallout"; the arguments provided regarding new reno fitting into the fallout world are valid whether you like it or not, if you cannot give a rebuttal that isn't along the lines of "I'm right you are wrong" then possibly, just possibly you may be wrong and cannot see the whole picture.

Edit: and how were the casinos "Glitzy, busy"? They looked pretty run down to me.

They had functional lighting. For the period, it was rather nice. Who's making new lightbulbs, etc.? Carpet ain't gonna hold up for 160 years with traffic. Isn't the whole crux of the New Reno argument that there are supposed to be all these invisible people that don't matter, anway?

Except that it is ludicrous nitpicking. Obviously, you could not possibly drive around in the area the game takes place in. It is completely impossible with no roads (which do not seem to exist). Yet, no one sreams about this...instead they scream about something obviously perfectly plausible and it is really pretty pathetic.

Oh, bullshit. The car thing has been done to death, and most of the purists didn't think the car really fit, either. Just because you're getting to the argument 6 years late doesn't mean none of this has ever been discussed.

Other places have power and lights. You can argue whether you think this is realistic, but it not totally unfeasible. There is something called trade, you know. I am sure vault city or ncr could make lightbulbs.

The point of the car is that even though it's out of place, who the fuck cares? In a truly realistic game, the world would be completely destroyed and you would not be able to play at all.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

It matters because it's just stupid and unnecessary to throw in assinine crap when you don't need to. Some poetic license in the name of smooth storytelling is acceptable, then there's just poorly thought out tripe some dude came up with on the crapper and never bothered to polish. Was The Core a great movie because they utterly ignored basic geology and physics? Was The Net awesomesauce with a side of bacon because it made anyone with a smidgen of knowledge about computers groan? A little bending of the rules is fine, taking a sledgehammer to suspension of disbelief because you'd rather fall back on cliches and hope nobody notices rather than think things through isn't.

 

[bryce777]

It matters because it's just stupid and unnecessary to throw in assinine crap when you don't need to. Some poetic license in the name of smooth storytelling is acceptable, then there's just poorly thought out tripe some dude came up with on the crapper and never bothered to polish. Was The Core a great movie because they utterly ignored basic geology and physics? Was The Net awesomesauce with a side of bacon because it made anyone with a smidgen of knowledge about computers groan? A little bending of the rules is fine, taking a sledgehammer to suspension of disbelief because you'd rather fall back on cliches and hope nobody notices rather than think things through isn't.

It is only your OPINION. get over it. Your socalled arguments are ridiculous, and you cannot seriously claim to be the expert on fallout over tim caine. I can see that the yakuza do not fit, but they are not central to new reno let alone the game itself.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I like those "reaction to someone we posted" threads:
http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=40439

 

[bryce777]

I like those "reaction to someone we posted" threads:
http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=40439

Everyone in that thread seems to be a retard.

 

[bryce777]

Especially grmnir. Wow, how did I not notice what a twit he is before now? It must be because I usually fall asleep during the first sentence of whatever nonsense he is posting.

 

[Volourn]

Awww... You poor babies cna't handle others making fun of you. Silly hypocrites that you are. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!


P.S. If everyone in that thread is an 'idiot' that would include VD, RP, and other Codex Defenders. LOLLERS!