Incline Colony Ship Combat Beta Thread

[Deleted Member 22431]

I apologize for the laziness, but how many APs are required to open the inventory and replace items. Is it even possible to switch gadgets during combat?

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

elevator fight was rather easy, especially if you play a rifleman since you get an energy rifle from the muties.

It is not the hardest fight. I didn't beat it because I wanted to try different builds. I died only two times and quit. What is the point, anyways? You beat the fight and there is nothing afterward.

 

[Technomancer]

elevator fight was rather easy, especially if you play a rifleman since you get an energy rifle from the muties.

What is the point, anyways? You beat the fight and there is nothing afterward.

For challenge mostly. Gotta finish all fights solo for it to count. You get some small lore fragments on endings too. Also, you can loot Winfield in combat to check out his militray-grade gear that was created for actual combat, not repurposed paramilitary stuff you have.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

For challenge mostly. Gotta finish all fights solo for it to count. You get some small lore fragments on endings too. Also, you can loot Winfield in combat to check out his militray-grade gear that was created for actual combat, not repurposed paramilitary stuff you have.

But then the game ends.

 

[Latelistener]

You don't have any cover...If the elevator was bigger and had some cover

But you do have cover in the elevator. It is not good but you have it. Did you try to use invis gadget?

Technically you do have two cover spots, but practically you don't. There is one invis gadget, but three party members. You choose one and the others are dead after the first turn 90% of the time.

For example, during the fight with Carter, if you place yourself on one special tile in the beginning he will throw a smoke grenade as usual, then move himself behind the cover and... won't shoot you until the next turn.

I know what you are talking about but it felt logical. Bots try to outflank you or just go for cover for better position on the next turn. They choose what to do based on your current position. By moving in that spot he chooses cover but he has no AP left to shoot you.

I don't think you know what I'm talking about because if you choose nearby tiles he will do absolutely the same thing, but will also shoot you. If you choose this tile, he won't. You think I would mention this otherwise?

 

[Elhoim]

I apologize for the laziness, but how many APs are required to open the inventory and replace items.

No AP to open, I think it's 4 for placing something, 6 for replacing.

Is it even possible to switch gadgets during combat?

No, the same goes for body armor. Regarding gadget, it's for balance reasons, but imagine them as something that has to be installed and calibrated to your body, and not like a phone you take out of your pocket and press a button to activate.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I've completed the demo and have some mixed feeling about the combat system. It tries to move from RNG, but in the end it's more RNG than AoD was.

I disagree, AoD gives you a huge amount of THC boosters through itemization and trainers, here, you can get exactly the same thing depending the weapons you use, SMG have huge THC penalties but very high damage output while Sniper rifles have high THC but average damage.
So there is more difference between weapons than in AoD, in my book, it's a good thing.

Basically, most of the fights are deadly to the point that if you don't do something exceptional on your first turn you're pretty much done. What's the point in selecting a type of RNG then? You have to kill at least one of the enemies or do a head crit. So, we have a heavy crit dependence. Also, you'll always have to move first or you're also done, so you need initiative. "The victory is definitely within your grasp"... if you reload 250 times to get a perfect row of rolls.

I agree with that, initiative is powerful and necessary if you don't go for high HP/evade builds.
Is this a bad thing though ?
I like when initiative matter, when you go for a high dex build, there's only one fight when the enemy attacks before you (max i had was 9 dex + the ini +4AP on first turn feat) and this guy uses a smoke grenade ... Dick move!

But it's fun and by then you have one eye gear to cancel the smoke debuff.

Also, enemies being dangerous and killing you on the spot, good thing too in my book, i agree it can seem hardcore or unfair at times since they almost always have better gear than you but there's always a way and if you don't always do exactly the same thing when reloading, you'll notice they're changing their tactics too, sometimes to your advantage.

Then the reaction. If you managed to get an interruption in JA2 you'll also need some AP left from your last turn, otherwise you won't be able to do anything. Here though, it's free and it can be deadly and ruin everything, but it's also RNG and unreliable.

I grew-up on UFO myself with the same save Time Units for reaction fire gimmick but i don't mind a different approach.

Then we have the arenas. The last fight elevates everything said above to the max. You don't have any cover, there is no tactic to help you so it's a completely and totally luck based. If the elevator was bigger and had some cover, you would probably have some chances after the first turn, but as of now it's a head crit and a lot of prayers. And I think the elevator being bigger will do much more than having a few crates for cover as they are mostly useless. Apparently having a shield is much better than being behind a few rows of steel

There is two covers in the elevator's side and if you didn't notice yet, anyone behind someone else is a "blocked" target until the enemy moves to a flanking position so there's room for more.
This fight was not the hardest, if you have a rifleman or a gunman, you should use one of the energy weapons with high damage output, if you don't, you probably don't even need them.

 

[razvedchiki]

early winner

"I really do not care what you fan boys and developer think but shutting down people who are saying this games combat is unbalanced has convinced me not to buy this game. I got the other 2 games from this developer but this game is for hardcore gamers not for people who play for enjoyment...no buy!!! There are so many other games here on steam that are better for players like me!"

the "combat unbalanced" was him mentioning that enemy riflemen can fire at range 1 (which is obvioulsy wrong).

https://steamcommunity.com/app/648410/discussions/0/3581993464537854486/?ctp=2

 

[Technomancer]

There is one invis gadget, but three party members. You choose one and the others are dead after the first turn 90% of the time.

That's why you go solo! But if you have 3 members this should be easy enough. 3 members - 3 different gadgets. Shield and cloak in cover, invis wearer in the open. Throw a stasis to freeze some bodies, divide and kill. Unless of course your initiative is so low that all enemies go first. Even then, you can activate gadgets on the deployment phase. Use stims on the wounded but since it is the last fight it doesn't really matter if your pawns actually survive it.

But then the game ends.

Well, what did you expect? It's not the game, it is a combat demo.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I don't think you know what I'm talking about because if you choose nearby tiles he will do absolutely the same thing, but will also shoot you. If you choose this tile, he won't. You think I would mention this otherwise?

That's why you go solo! But if you have 3 members this should be easy enough. 3 members - 3 different gadgets. Throw a stasis to freeze some bodies, divide and kill. Unless of course your initiative is so low that all enemies go first. Even then, you can activate gadgets on the deployment phase. And since it is the last fight it doesn't matter if your pawns actually survive it.

You get 2 flower shaped shields, these are quite good, you can even upgrade one through the eastern store.

The armor/shield is also pretty good and you don't even have to activate it.

And then the stealth ball.

Let me count on my fingers, 2 + 1 + 1 = 4 ...

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

The armor/shield is also pretty good and you don't even have to activate it.

What?

 

[Fenix]

Basically, most of the fights are deadly to the point that if you don't do something exceptional on your first turn you're pretty much done. What's the point in selecting a type of RNG then? You have to kill at least one of the enemies or do a head crit. So, we have a heavy crit dependence.

Looks like so. For example that notorious 4th fight as rifleman - If you miss you will die. You need to hit Sharpshooter twice and take his rifle or die.
Melee guy will tear you apart, if you eliminate him first smg guy will shred you, and if spend turns trying to do all of that, in she end Sharpshooter will hit you once or twice.
Of course, first you need to strangle your greed in the cradle and buy and use these stimulants because sometimes those 10 hp is what you need for win and such.
So it loks like more RNG dependent or the same, but then again maybe I just didn't get the grasp on system.

AI does some crazy things and sometimes is painful to watch. For example, during the fight with Carter, if you place yourself on one special tile in the beginning he will throw a smoke grenade as usual, then move himself behind the cover and... won't shoot you until the next turn.

Haven't seen that Carter guy yet, but in fight with Brotherhood gun thugs one of them have axe of something, and sometimes he is switching to it while sitting in cover, and do nothig.
Buy the way much easier then 4th fight lol.

 

[AdolfSatan]

The armor/shield is also pretty good and you don't even have to activate it.

What?

There's an armor on the muties that provides a 40hp force shield around you, I reckon he's talking about that one. It eats up your gadget slot but it's always active, saving you those 2AP to turn it on during the preparation phase.

 

[Elhoim]

Of course, first you need to strangle your greed in the cradle and buy and use these stimulants because sometimes those 10 hp is what you need for win and such.

DISCLAIMER: The following statement does not imply the game balance is perfect.

I think most of the difficulty in the demo comes from us players being cheap bastards. We want to win without using consumables, even if we have at least one grenade for each fight. I'm always "save before fight, try to win without using consumables, fail, reload, use grenade, steamroll".

 

[jackofshadows]

So it loks like more RNG dependent or the same, but then again maybe I just didn't get the grasp on system.

You're just talking in terms of solo rifle run which is a whole different difficulty level, make it more clear for everyone else. If you're know what you're doing and use companions - demo is very easy and does not depend on RNG at all.

 

[Latelistener]

I disagree, AoD gives you a huge amount of THC boosters through itemization and trainers

RNG here has little to do with your THC. It's a lot of other things like reaction combined together, which can give you a completely different outcome.

I like when initiative matter

I like too, but here it not just matters, it's a mandatory. If for example in the fight with the laser pistol guy you won't move first, chances are he will kill you in his first turn (or his buddies).

There is two covers in the elevator's side and if you didn't notice yet, anyone behind someone else is a "blocked" target until the enemy moves to a flanking position so there's room for more.

Have you actually tried sitting behind them? One good rifle/smg burst and your party member is dead. "Blocked" target by the way is another weird mechanic. What would, theoretically, stop me from shooting "through" an enemy? Should I be upset if I accidentally hit one who stands in the way?

That's why you go solo! But if you have 3 members this should be easy enough. 3 members - 3 different gadgets. Shield and cloak in cover, invis wearer in the open. Throw a stasis to freeze some bodies, divide and kill. Unless of course your initiative is so low that all enemies go first. Even then, you can activate gadgets on the deployment phase. Use stims on the wounded but since it is the last fight it doesn't really matter if your pawns actually survive it.

You explaining something that so painfully obvious, while I'm talking about a completely different thing. If I had tactical troubles with this fight I would ask for an advice. The problem is not in that, the problem is that your party is a bunch of sitting ducks in this elevator. The only thing that could save your lives is initiative and a good prayer that a rifle/smg burst won't kill your comrades from the first turn, because without at least one of them you cannot win this. If you play alone, you will end being 7 lvl, but you will only have 5 lvl if you have two other party members. For the record, if it's not clear enough, I already completed it several times to see the endings and it is the reason for complaints.

 

[orcinator]

Played it a bit, got bad wasteland 2 flashbacks in addition to the memories of AOD early game fights that boil down to who can get a crit off first. Also eye strain.
Think I'll just go full talker in the full game unless someone tells me where the "speed up animations" setting is.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I like too, but here it not just matters, it's a mandatory. If for example in the fight with the laser pistol guy you won't move first, chances are he will kill you in his first turn (or his buddies).

Unless you activate a gadget or fall back.

Anyway, what solution would you propose? Someone has to shoot first. We can lower the enemies' THC but that would make the game too easy. We can lower damage but that would be a war of attrition. A gadget or energy armor seems to be the best solution.

 

[orcinator]

I like too, but here it not just matters, it's a mandatory. If for example in the fight with the laser pistol guy you won't move first, chances are he will kill you in his first turn (or his buddies).

Unless you activate a gadget or fall back.

Anyway, what solution would you propose? Someone has to shoot first. We can lower the enemies' THC but that would make the game too easy. We can lower damage but that would be a war of attrition. A gadget or energy armor seems to be the best solution.

Greater reliance on terrain and LOS so there's more to the fights than praying to RNGesus and deciding whether it's worth it to use up some bolas flashbangs.
You know like in those games with good turn based combat.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I like too, but here it not just matters, it's a mandatory. If for example in the fight with the laser pistol guy you won't move first, chances are he will kill you in his first turn (or his buddies).

Unless you activate a gadget or fall back.

Anyway, what solution would you propose? Someone has to shoot first. We can lower the enemies' THC but that would make the game too easy. We can lower damage but that would be a war of attrition. A gadget or energy armor seems to be the best solution.

Greater reliance on terrain and LOS so there's more to the fights than praying to RNGesus and deciding whether it's worth it to use up some bolas flashbangs.
You know like in those games with good turn based combat.

It's not tactical strategy like JA2 or Silent Storm or Fallout: Tactics where you have huge maps with plenty of natural cover, so we can't rely on terrain and LOS alone. There will be plenty of combat in close quarters (you enter a bar, a whorehouse, headquarters, warehouse, etc and a fight starts).

 

[orcinator]

There will be plenty of combat in close quarters (you enter a bar, a whorehouse, headquarters, warehouse, etc and a fight starts).

Silent Storm and modded X-com both had small maps while still having (superior) LOS based mechanics.

 

[jackofshadows]

It's not tactical strategy like JA2 or Silent Storm or Fallout: Tactics where you have huge maps with plenty of natural cover, so we can't rely on terrain and LOS alone. There will be plenty of combat in close quarters (you enter a bar, a whorehouse, headquarters, warehouse, etc and a fight starts).

That's it. By some wild chance, in a casual manner it was officially confirmed that CSG is a unreservedly a decent RPG already.

 

[thesecret1]

It might be just me, but compared to AoD, the ranks in weapon skills feel really lacklustre. In AoD, I really felt each and every rank in weapon skill or dodge, but here I had no such impression, instead feeling as though the stats did all the heavy lifting. Might just be a psychological effect of getting to put points into stats but not skills, but I'd still like to know how it compares to AoD model.

 

[Black Angel]

It might be just me, but compared to AoD, the ranks in weapon skills feel really lacklustre. In AoD, I really felt each and every rank in weapon skill or dodge, but here I had no such impression, instead feeling as though the stats did all the heavy lifting. Might just be a psychological effect of getting to put points into stats but not skills, but I'd still like to know how it compares to AoD model.

As someone mentioned in the this thread (or the other, forgot which one), it's because the gears also got a part in doing the lifting. You can gain THC (plus or malus), crit chance, aimed chance, reaction, penetration etc etc from your weapons. And then there's also the implants, and its upgrades. And then you also have other utilities and consumables, so I think the devs did it right by toning down the results you can gain from skills alone.

 

[Fenix]

Guys, are there consequances of allowing Vasquez to join you? If yes - which ones?