Incline Colony Ship Combat Beta Thread

[Technomancer]

Speaking of new XCOMs, the one thing I really miss is the ability to hunker down. Seem like a natural thing to do when you outnumbered heavily and want to reduce RNG dependency on not dying on the first turn. It could work like evasion buff that scales on amount AP that you have left on this turn and it disables reaction shots.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

well I remember like guy with rifle has 30 something hp, but he has super powerful weapon and I think some armor. invis guy also has no hp, but he is invis and hits hard. and some other guy has, again, no hp but he has energy shield but that means he has weak base DR.

all that just melts to shotguns and some other builds that can just do hurr raw damage (even extra damage on graze is kinda useful there); but then I had a lot of trouble with weapons which don't.

and yeah they have good ini maybe.

honestly they look like a party of glasscanons I would make

I playing with a 10/10/6/6 or 7?/4/4 build tank. Now that I have heavy armor the fights look completely different. The enemies do everything they can to land a few hits with graze. It feels like desperation because they do nothing. Shotguns, rifles and melee can do some damage thou.

 

[Fenix]

A bunch of random thought before I forget them.

Implants category called like bodyparts, except one called Armor - what? It should be Skin.

About skin pigmentation - on such ship there will be not anough illumination to give or to keep skin pigmentation.
Pigmentation for asiats and negroes is a thing that happened in natural living conditions, in village life.
Modern asiat city denisens not much yellower then white europeoid, negroes doesn't look like coal too - their skin quickly loosing their natural pigmentation.
So, at least add pale-white skin color, and at best remove all deep skin colors - they are simply impossible insuch enviroment, on a ship where saving energy should be main imperative.

Next is Feat names - maybe make them less generic like Lone Wolf and instead add some thematic flavor, Lone Wolf -->something like Star Tramp or Starfafer, or something? I think it could be cool.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Those feat names sound corny as hell and mean nothing. Lone Wolf's meaning is immediately obvious —provided you're comfortable enough with the language—, that's why it works.

Your might have a point about skin colour provided the lore justified it by saying the ship's been cruising for the necessary centuries/millenia for such a mutation to take place. But that bullshit about negroes or asians changing it after a couple of generations in the city? You need to go outside more. Not right now tho, maybe in a couple of months.

 

[Shadenuat]

Silent Storm and modded X-com both had small maps while still having (superior) LOS based mechanics.

They were tactical games, dumbfuck. CAN'T YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE? In a full-fledged cRPG the developer needs to invest in writing, quests, reactivity, exploration... you know, all those things you don't have in a tactical game. This cRPG doesn't play like a tactical game because it was never intended to be one.

It's not even that. A game like Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm can give you a huge map filled with enemies, point at the distant target and let you fight your way there. It's loads of fun but can't really work in a proper RPG, the best way to illustrate it is the difference between Fallout 1-2 and Fallout: Tactics.

how about giving us 1 mission at least with big map where u need to storm enemy HQ, kill lots of guys, F:T style?
test the combat system in big scale

don't want to wait for Colony Rats.

 

[Latelistener]

Anyway, what solution would you propose? Someone has to shoot first. We can lower the enemies' THC but that would make the game too easy. We can lower damage but that would be a war of attrition. A gadget or energy armor seems to be the best solution.

I'd say that the main problem is the map design, but it's a bit more complex than that. There isn't any tactic that would involve careful positioning and use of terrain and LOS (as someone mentioned on previous pages). There is not a single place in the arena that can block enemy LOS from one direction or another. That elevator fight just "elevates" all those problems to the max and that's why I mentioned it. The only tactics that could potentially help you there as of now are a good prayer and a lot of reloadings.

It's not tactical strategy like JA2 or Silent Storm or Fallout: Tactics where you have huge maps with plenty of natural cover, so we can't rely on terrain and LOS alone. There will be plenty of combat in close quarters (you enter a bar, a whorehouse, headquarters, warehouse, etc and a fight starts).

But where exactly is the problem? For example, if the elevator would have been bigger with more tactical options, it would be much better. What exactly the game loses? It's just an ordinary cargo lift with some boxes lying around. The same can be said about any other location. It can be designed that way so it feels natural but also provides a few tactical options so it wouldn't just be based on initiative, prayers and flashbangs.

 

[Fenix]

Those feat names sound corny as hell and mean nothing.

They mean that language of people who lived through 200 years on spaceship with complete lack of connection with Earth culture changed much, which is obvious and unevitable outcome.
What is Wolf for them?
They have no idea about wolfs and cows and such.
Is it not for them but for players directly?
It's a bit unimmersive isn't it then? All I propose is to make feat's language match in-game language, cause I think naturally langauge there will try to represent crew's absence of Earth culture.

Your might have a point about skin colour provided the lore justified it by saying the ship's been cruising for the necessary centuries/millenia for such a mutation to take place.

Millenia? Dude, do you think MILLENIA have passed for asiats to make their skin white from Indastrial era? It was barely one century.

But that bullshit about negroes or asians changing it after a couple of generations in the city?

Dude you are completely out of the loop. Read things, think harder.

 

[Technomancer]

It's a bit unimmersive isn't it then? All I propose is to make feat's language match in-game language, cause I think naturally langauge there will try to represent crew's absence of Earth culture.

This is a part of space western/frontier theme they are going for. I doubt they will change it. The colonists language is still american mostly, the cultural heritage they took with them from old Earth is not so easily eroded anyway. Some sayings stay with humanity for eons.

What is Wolf for them?

What is Jesus to them?

They have no idea about wolfs and cows and such.

They don't need to. To them, wolf is a mythical creature from Earth stories known for his solitary attitude.

 

[Vault Dweller]

how about giving us 1 mission at least with big map where u need to storm enemy HQ, kill lots of guys, F:T style?

There will be fights like these in the game (in the Factory) but we don't have the levels yet and won't have them for a while. The current priority: the Pit and the Armory (almost ready), the Hydroponics (we only have the basic layout), the Mission Control (haven't touched), then the Factory.

Anyway, what solution would you propose? Someone has to shoot first. We can lower the enemies' THC but that would make the game too easy. We can lower damage but that would be a war of attrition. A gadget or energy armor seems to be the best solution.

I'd say that the main problem is the map design, but it's a bit more complex than that. There isn't any tactic that would involve careful positioning and use of terrain and LOS (as someone mentioned on previous pages).

No, there isn't, which doesn't mean there are no tactics there at all. Terrain and LOS are merely one tactical aspect out of many.

It's not tactical strategy like JA2 or Silent Storm or Fallout: Tactics where you have huge maps with plenty of natural cover, so we can't rely on terrain and LOS alone. There will be plenty of combat in close quarters (you enter a bar, a whorehouse, headquarters, warehouse, etc and a fight starts).

But where exactly is the problem? For example, if the elevator would have been bigger with more tactical options, it would be much better. What exactly the game loses? It's just an ordinary cargo lift with some boxes lying around. The same can be said about any other location. It can be designed that way so it feels natural but also provides a few tactical options so it wouldn't just be based on initiative, prayers and flashbangs.

The elevator fight was meant to be a test of many close quarters fight with limited or no cover. Obviously, we can't (meaning shouldn't) make every indoor place big and spacious and with plenty of tactical options. Basically, the fight at the O.K. Corral rather than Seal Team 6 missions.

 

[Technomancer]

Obviously, we can't (meaning shouldn't) make every indoor place big and spacious and with plenty of tactical options.

Making more covers in the elevator is a moot point anyway. Surely a hardboiled enforcer like Winfield is prepared for a possibility of you being hostile. It is reasonable for him to ambush you to make his proposal difficult to refuse.

 

[Twiglard]

What's the keyboard shortcut for switching characters outside turn based mode?

Edit: it's 'Q'.

 

[jackofshadows]

And 'E'.

 

[Essegi]

At last i managed to finish that demo... Solo bladed melee (chopper FTW), never ever equipped a firearm.

My build:
https://i.imgur.com/cbTZX3e.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CXUWndK.jpg

I lost countless hours against:

Spoiler

Church guys... No matter what i did, always got rekt. Then i noticed stasis bomb. I bought it, used it, won at first try.
Also battle after that was hard.
I raped mutants at first try and very last fight at second try, power armor was an huge asset

I had fun.
I bought batteries for gadget, i didn't understood how they work tho.

 

[Fenix]

Click gear icon on it, then click on parts with 1 - that mean there is new part you can plug.

 

[orcinator]

which doesn't mean there are no tactics there at all.

The problem is the only viable tactic is tossing a stun grenades at whatever cluster has the biggest guns and hoping you don't whiff your attacks and/or that smg guy doesn't hit you with reaction fire anyway, then reloading because it turns out that enemy in the corner was the one that's packing his own grenades. This also seems to be the only real tactic in pretty much every other difficult encounter.

Oh yeah and I guess in the full game you'll be able to get overpowered and not give a shit but I wouldn't call that a distinct tactic.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Went with a bladed guy (STR/INT dumped) and 2 followers. Got to the last fight but kind of fatiqued out... Did not bother to try it much, because i was pissed i cannot go back to the shops before it (or can i?).

Have to say that while you can follow some strategy, tough fights are just a massive reload fest. The outcome can range from "total party defeat" to "confident victory" just from lucky/unlucky rolls alone (and freebies from reaction). Sometimes AI decisions/positioning can also turn the tide of battle heavily.
I had fun for sure. Don't know how to improve the reloading bit, game design is hard. Also have to admit, Vince is right about grenades/gadgets and such. This can give you the required edge. But how common stuff like stasis grenade would be? Will we have some wiggle room or will we hoard this stuff for the "finale"?

 

[Essegi]

Click gear icon on it, then click on parts with 1 - that mean there is new part you can plug.

Ok, i get it now, thanks! I saw gear icon on gadget and 3 squares for each battery. If you have a battery you see a 1 on central square, clicking it you see the "1" moving to left... I already did that, but that time i observed better, for example on distorion field EM defletctor Mark 1 increase range penalt ftom 35 to 55... I just needed to check gear stat on left figure... That would have been handy.

EDIT: i tried again with batteries against the hardest match for me (Church guys), well... I made it at first try. Believe me, before using stasis nade i retried that way too much times and that time i didn't use it... Still used poison and flashbang (both low grade) but just 1 each and no smoke...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Went with a bladed guy (STR/INT dumped) and 2 followers. Got to the last fight but kind of fatiqued out... Did not bother to try it much, because i was pissed i cannot go back to the shops before it (or can i?).

Have to say that while you can follow some strategy, tough fights are just a massive reload fest. The outcome can range from "total party defeat" to "confident victory" just from lucky/unlucky rolls alone (and freebies from reaction). Sometimes AI decisions/positioning can also turn the tide of battle heavily.
I had fun for sure. Don't know how to improve the reloading bit, game design is hard. Also have to admit, Vince is right about grenades/gadgets and such. This can give you the required edge. But how common stuff like stasis grenade would be? Will we have some wiggle room or will we hoard this stuff for the "finale"?

Stasis grenades (like any Earth-made tech) will be extremely rare. In most fights (9 out of 10) you'd have to rely on ship-made stuff. For the record when testing difficulty I've never used such grenades.

Luck/RNG. If you always hit, you don't have to worry about luck. If you don't, then the lower your THC is, the bigger role luck plays by default. Naturally, the new player would have the lowest THC and thus feel that it's too random and the only way to beat a fight is to reload 20 times. People say that about AoD too, yet Honorable Eyestabber beat it ironman style.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

h yeah and I guess in the full game you'll be able to get overpowered and not give a shit but I wouldn't call that a distinct tactic.

 

[Twiglard]

Do you have to kill the Brotherhood guys in order to legitimately beat the demo?

That positively reminds me of "you're the guy who killed Dellar".

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

What makes this game more demanding is definitely the learn by use system. In AoD you had generic SPs you could use on top of the combat SPs, and invest everything in combat. Here, you are restricted by what you do.

 

[orcinator]

h yeah and I guess in the full game you'll be able to get overpowered and not give a shit but I wouldn't call that a distinct tactic.

Reading a guide so you know what order to do the quests in for maximum skill gains that will make you too swole to control isn't a tactic.
It's a strategy.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Oh yeah and I guess in the full game you'll be able to get overpowered and not give a shit but I wouldn't call that a distinct tactic.

Reading a guide so you know what order to do the quests in for maximum skill gains that will make you too swole to control isn't a tactic.
It's a strategy.

How does it feel to write to yourself ?

 

[Essegi]

Yesterday i was bored so i redid the solo bladed run and recorded fights:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBYlPEjR3FUz5bbJ0wLT6niL8gR0I2vEc

Sometimes i still forced rng, but with experience and knowing ahead all matches it's not that hard.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Played the demo a bit, went solo sniper, it was tough but very rewarding. Stopped playing because its very addicting, and i generally do not play early access and demos. Will wait for a full release on GoG, and its a D1 purchase for me.

All of this got me reinstalling AoD and DR again

Good times