Colony Ship Early Access Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Luckmann]

Did you travel to the other two areas? Or did you deliberately tried to finish as much as possible whithin the first one to prevent more spoiling? In that case - sure, it'd be a dead end.

No, I hadn't traveled to any other area. It had nothing to do with spoiling anything, but was simply the result of me doing things in an order that made sense to me, and the Jonas/Baxter conflict was the last thing I was going to do before going to the next area - presumably by taking the elevator but I have no idea, honestly, since I never got to it.

So, why would one ever support Braxton? It's painfully obvious he set you and Jonas up, and his regulator goons have less combat skill than most gutter trash.
(this is not really an appeal to the devs, more to other players, what's the rp reason to betray the town you grew up in to this asshole?)

The fact that you couldn't raise this with Jonas really irked me. It was one of those "narrative nonsensicals" that I mentioned. If you don't kill the goons supposedly sent by Jonas, the goons will leave and immediately get killed by Baxter and two of his regulators (...but there will be no corpses for some reason). At that point, when you talk to Baxter, if you're intelligent enough (I think.. 8?), you can call Baxter on it. Baxter will then straight-up confess and tell you that he set the whole thing up so as to rally support for ousting Jonas.

At that point, what I wanted to do was to tell Baxter to fuck the fuck off, but what was worse was that when I finally got around to meet Jonas, the entire dialogue seemed to gravitate around his assumption that I was somehow allied with Baxter, which was a bit jarring since I couldn't question even why he assumed that, let alone raise the fact that Baxter straight-up told me that he set it up himself, somehow.

I dunno, it was weird.

One of my first reactions to Braxton asking me, essentially, to help overthrow Jonas was something like "woah, this is moving really fast. Why would I do this, why wouldn't I do this?"

I didn't have context to inform my character's choice. Later, I considered that my character must have been living here his whole life, and maybe this was a critical moment, finally an opportunity to do something, change something, or refuse to engage. But I had to fill that in myself.

Even the little bit you suggest would have avoided that sense of being adrift. It implies an answer to the question: why does the story of this game begin at this moment?

Fallout 1, for example, has a very clear answer to that question.

I didn't feel like I had a grasp of what was going on until I met Jonas, the introduction of which explains his function in the background and contextualizes the conflict a bit more. I think it would be very helpful if you were somehow sent to Jonas *first*, maybe right after meeting the guy that gives you the main quest, even if it's just an infinitesimally minor fetch-quest from the bar and into the saloon, before being sent to Evan.

It would help give a more "A to B" historical review of events, just by the fact that you will have encountered the introductory blurb to Jonas, and this will make the appearance of Baxter more meaningful. My history professor would have balked at such a pedestrian explanation of historical events, but for narrative purposes, it really does help, since we are beasts of linear timekeeping.

 

[Vault Dweller]

At that point, what I wanted to do was to tell Baxter to fuck the fuck off, but what was worse was that when I finally got around to meet Jonas, the entire dialogue seemed to gravitate around his assumption that I was somehow allied with Baxter, which was a bit jarring since I couldn't question even why he assumed that, let alone raise the fact that Baxter straight-up told me that he set it up himself, somehow.

Why he assumed that should be obvious, you were there and there's a good chance you're working for Braxton. As for Jonas, you have 3 options to start the conversation with him, so you aren't railroaded into blindly accusing him.

- You crossed the line. (you're accusing Jonas, either believing Braxton or acting as his agent)
- I'd like to hear your side of the story first (neutral option)
- Hold your horses, Jonas. I don't know what you've heard, but I'm here to warn you that Braxton is stirring up some shit. (either you passed that check with Braxton or decided against siding with him)

 

[Drowed]

Obviously, there are many games where your identity is well-defined. PST is the best example and the way the story revolves around your identity is simply fascinating. [...] Then there are many equally beloved games where the PC's background was left to the player to imagine, so I don't see it as a must-have feature.

We do have games with vague background. And obviously, you are not creating a story as in PST and that is not my argument. My point is that in games where the game does not offer a big background, it makes up for this with a great motivation - the famous call-to-action. These storytelling tools do not exist by chance. As in the Fallout examples, you don't know details about your character, but usually you know enough to justify the main hook for the game's story. You have implicit reasons to care about what you are doing. Why don't you just leave the Vault (or village) and go live in the wasteland, fuck everyone there? Because your character cares about his place of origin and you can infer this from the context of the situation. You can even claim that Fallout didn't do this perfectly, and would I agree, but some justification for caring is more than no justification at all. Well, maybe not in the case of Fallout 3/4, but still.

In AOD and CSG you simply take a job, and jump from one job to another one. What is... Fine, I guess, but you could have provided opportunities for your character to express opinions during the game itself about the factions before dealing with them. The early game "CYOA" is an attempt to set some basic motivations for your character, but this is usually much more powerful when it can be done in the game itself. In a way, it reminds me of Tyranny: the events and choices you make early in that game seem like things that would be much more interesting to play than to read about. Why did I have to read about the interesting things I did in the past? I wish I had actively done them in the game, chosen them and participated in them. Likewise, from a story-building standpoint, it is important that you give the player the opportunity to form an opinion about the locations, NPCs and events before he has to deal with the events themselves. When you are put on the spot and told, "CHOOSE A OR B" but you haven't even had a chance to learn more about A or B and other people's opinions about it, that choice may even have consequences, but to you it was meaningless. You weren't weighing options, you just took one.

But for me, the most glaring situation is Faythe's case. As a companion, and given that companions in your new game have their own personalities and are not simply generic characters, there was a whole setup for her quest. Even more so than PC, she was undoubtedly a character who could have a long arc, exploring her views throughout the game. (And it didn't have to be anything dramatic, it could be quick conversations here or there, in situations where the commentary would flow naturally.) If instead of the solution to this quest being immediate, this was something that wasn't going to happen until the middle or near the end of the game, you could have several moments foreshadowing how she would act when finally reaching her goal. She might join your party because you had access to areas of the ship that she for some reason did not, so it would be a give-and-take: she would help you with your jobs and in return you would be her passport to getting her revenge. And in that building of a character arc is where you give some depth to them. But her whole arc is literally resolved in the next 10 minutes, and I assume (and may be wrong) that the same will happen with the other NPCs.

The only place a character's depth can come from is his motivations. And his motivations can only be explained or justified by his experiences, or his past. That's why to move a character convincingly, you either create a compelling and interesting background, or you create an impactful event in the narrative to give a great motivation - a great goal, something he wants very much to achieve. If he has neither... He has nothing. He is a cement block that is being carried by events. Obviously interesting events and a creative setting are already great motivators to follow a story (as is the case with AOD and, I believe, will be the case with CSG). No doubt these are merits of both games, but we are not talking here about what the game does very well, but what it could have done differently.

 

[Whisper]

So how should we answer these very important questions? Should I give your character a dramatic story full of twists and turns? Give you another questionnaire?

My parents:

1. Are dead. Orphaned at a young age I ... (go page 12).
2. Are very supportive, especially uncle Jim. I visit them every week and we have tea made from fresh rust shavings.
3. Are estranged. I've never forgiven them for bringing me into this world.
4. Sold me to a traveling circus and bought a nice apartment in the Habitat. One day I will find them and ... (go to page 14).

You didnt answer Nerd Commando main points: Why you hate Christianity and why in your game it is more profitable to be egoistic hero who cheats people and steal from them.

Did you even watch his last video?

 

[Vault Dweller]

As in the Fallout examples, you don't know details about your character, but usually you know enough to justify the main hook for the game's story.

Yeah, you drew the short straw. They sent you out and refused to let you back in (if you try to go back right away). Pure poetry.

What about your family? Siblings? Friends? Lovers? The game is silent because it's not relevant to the story.

You have implicit reasons to care about what you are doing. Why don't you just leave the Vault (or village) and go live in the wasteland, fuck everyone there? Because your character cares about his place of origin and you can infer this from the context of the situation.

Or because the main quest is about finding the water chip and you have a timer to remind you about it.

But for me, the most glaring situation is Faythe's case. As a companion, and given that companions in your new game have their own personalities and are not simply generic characters, there was a whole setup for her quest. Even more so than PC, she was undoubtedly a character who could have a long arc, exploring her views throughout the game. (And it didn't have to be anything dramatic, it could be quick conversations here or there, in situations where the commentary would flow naturally.) If instead of the solution to this quest being immediate, this was something that wasn't going to happen until the middle or near the end of the game, you could have several moments foreshadowing how she would act when finally reaching her goal. She might join your party because you had access to areas of the ship that she for some reason did not, so it would be a give-and-take: she would help you with your jobs and in return you would be her passport to getting her revenge. And in that building of a character arc is where you give some depth to them. But her whole arc is literally resolved in the next 10 minutes, and I assume (and may be wrong) that the same will happen with the other NPCs.

Like I said earlier, writing and especially scripting take time. There's a reason why in games like Pillars or KOTOR party members are given to different writers. I can spend two weeks writing and scripting a slow arc but this time will reduce time allocated to other tasks. Anyway, her quest and the reason to have her in the party are in the Mission Control ruins.

You didnt answer Nerd Commando main points: Why you hate Christianity...

I don't.

...and why in your game it is more profitable to be egoistic hero who cheats people and steal from them.

It's a stupid question.

Did you even watch his last video?

I'm too busy to watch 3-hour long videos.

There are plenty of people who like the game. We can focus on their feedback and on making the game better for them or we can focus on making the game better for that one guy who hates pretty much everything about it. Tough choice.

 

[Whisper]

p.s. I like AoD and Colony ship writing. I never skipped it, even wishing for more text. Something i rarely want usually.

 

[Elhoim]

The system feels far more metagamey than AoD, this learn-by-doing stuff makes it way worse.

Instead of spending SP to pass a check you backtrack through areas to get them, and every encounter feels like a puzzle to solve to squeeze out the maximum.

That's an issue we are working on, and it's more about the implementation of the checks rather than system per se. AoD was even as much metagamey there with the stealing that gave civic SP.

Often I'd rather kill everyone right off, but there is XP to be gained by talking first (not even speech XP), so you feel happy when you find a way to ultimately fail the dialogue checks after getting what you can.

I don't get exactly what XP in particular you are talking about. I guess you mean the electronics/computers in Sharpface? It's an odd one, and not critical. I wouldn't even give XP in that case, since it's more of a knowledge check, but we currently have an editor limitation there.

In any case, here's what I said last time about trying to game the dialogue via talk then fight:

- Chains have the same amount of nodes, maybe for a few exceptions.
- If you don't tags the speech skills, there's only so far you can get with this method.
- Failing the checks gives an initiative penalty in combat.
- Succeeding the checks give extra speech XP.
- Attacking before the checks gives an initiative bonus and a bonus feat when used many times.
- You don't get diplomacy reputation, which would close quest paths later on in the game regarding speech.

Basically, you are free to do that, but it's definitely not a clear cut optimal way to play.

 

[Parabalus]

I don't get exactly what XP in particular you are talking about. I guess you mean the electronics/computers in Sharpface? It's an odd one, and not critical.

That's the one.

Failing the checks gives an initiative penalty in combat.

So it's extra XP gated behind harder combat, which is fine mechanically.

If you don't tags the speech skills, there's only so far you can get with this method.

In the current chapter doing this even without tagged speech skills is enough to get to pass speech checks, dunno what the hardest are but it's enough for e.g. Mercy. Also found it useful to get Jed early.

a bonus feat when used many times.

Where's this detailed?

You don't get diplomacy reputation, which would close quest paths later on in the game regarding speech.

These reps should have more feedback in the dialogue window or log.

E.g. Mercy, how is rep split if I do 2 successful checks before the 'kill 'em all'? Is it affected at all? If not, why wouldn't I?
You have no idea beforehand that there won't be any useful skills hidden in the dialogue, or what will even happen in the scene.

 

[Savecummer]

There are plenty of people who like the game. We can focus on their feedback and on making the game better for them

They find the dungeons large, could be a place to save company resources, cut a level. And maybe even remove the "traps"

MRY , did you get an advanced build?

This guy here

 

[lukaszek]

how many bonus feats are there and what are they?

 

[Pink Eye]

Eight melee runs later and I still can't get enough of it. So fucking good.

Spoiler

I just like the animations, man. They're so satisfying. The melee animations for attacking and dodging, are awesome!

 

[Savecummer]

how many bonus feats are there and what are they?

in the first build that got released that i extracted, there were only the known neuro, thief/assassin and init (init gives like +20 init if i remember correctly)
(i dont remeber regulator being in the feats folder... bonus feats are named differntly, they stand out)

there were also files for implant upgrades but they dont seem to be in the game
squad leader, i think, had 2 paths, mil police and riot something? one of them gave like +5 acc to companions and something else

 

[lukaszek]

how many bonus feats are there and what are they?

in the first build that got released that i extracted, there were only the known neuro, thief/assassin and init (init gives like +20 init if i remember correctly)
(i dont remeber regulator being in the feats folder... bonus feats are named differntly, they stand out)

there were also files for implant upgrades but they dont seem to be in the game
squad leader, i think, had 2 paths, mil police and riot something? one of them gave like +5 acc to companions and something else

thief/assassin is companion exclusive, neuro is from quest, then I guess its about init, also fits the theme

 

[Parabalus]

You only get the option to sneak into Mercy's fort if you fail your speech checks - there needs to be an option of leaving the negotiation manually. Or deciding to do that from the get-go.

 

[Efe]

so if i was acting tough against fayth she would get assassin instead of thief?

how am i supposed to get good at killing if game doesnt allow me to kill civillians?

 

[Jaedar]

it is more profitable to be egoistic hero who cheats people and steal from them.

This is just VDs/Iron towers philosophy. And in some sense it makes sense: RPG protagonist aren't the kind of people who stick around to suffer the consequences of being known as an unreliable actor and a crook, or gain the benefits of being known as upstanding.

I think it is a refreshing change from most RPGs where being the good guy is the correct choice unless you like to cackle maniacally while stroking cats.

 

[lukaszek]

my melee character cant access melee vendor since starting

thought there is some flag but my other character with same stats but pistols instead was able to access stock from start. Here is my save
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtR_aYYk-ORHi9QrynFlqFKsCZ1WfA?e=sfcNHo


EDIT:
also, bullfrogs attacks are not real attacks? Logs show them weirdly, you never react to misses, im not sure evasion is doing much and so on

 

[lukaszek]

anyone else was doing solo pistolero run and run out of bullets? Merchants are not restocking...

 

[Technomancer]

But it is not fine to say: "You recognize this place: it's the Armory," and then give a dialogue option, "What is this place?"

Kinda happens in the game like that sometimes. Like you can talk with Samuel and from dialogue, it becomes clear that player character and Samuel know each other or at least are acquainted, not surprising, both living in the same "city" and player having a scav background. Yet when Braxton asks PC to kill Samuel, your character suffers sudden amnesia fit and can ask who is Samuel? Obviously, it is there for players who don't pay attention or never met him but still.

 

[lukaszek]

infinite money through ammo trick fix now makes it hard to buy ammo through drag n drop and using slider. When you try to get whole stock you get message that you dont have enough money. When you click like crazy to get full stack you can trade fine

 

[Parabalus]

All mobs disappearing after you sneak past them is hilarious.

 

[jackofshadows]

All mobs disappearing after you sneak past them is hilarious.

They don't forget to devour the corpse with its loot in the armory beforehand either.

 

[Parabalus]

All mobs disappearing after you sneak past them is hilarious.

They don't forget to devour the corpse with its loot in the armory beforehand either.

Why can't you takedown frogs? No animations yet or just reasons?

Though in that armory scene sneak is useful since you can position yourself in the narrow corridor before starting combat, and they come 1 by 1.

 

[Pink Eye]

You can't takedown the frogs, because human player doesn't know where to strike to kill frog!

 

[AdolfSatan]

Is there some clear indication of having arrived to the end of the chapter, or should I assume it finished after I've ran out of quests to do?