Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Preview Completely fucking nuts: a Molyneux article

VonVentrue

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
814
Location
HPCE
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
I am speechless. His statement is...ridiculous to say the least. He IS fucking nuts.

Volrath said:
Seriously, how the fuck can it be that this guy was responsible for titles such as Populous, Magic Carpet, Theme Park and Dungeon Keeper?

He's obviously suffering the symptoms of middle age...
 

HanoverF

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
6,083
MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Oarfish said:
Demis Hassabis had a fair bit to do with theme park, not sure about DK. He turned out to be a bit of a shitty designer post Bullfrog too. Republic: The revolution had to be one of the most disappointingly overhyped titles other than Black & White. An original and adult direction, granted, but a stupidly overcomplicated implementation of what was effectively a board game.

Maybe his need to overcomplicate and Moroneux's desire to overly simplify canceled each other out and they managed to deliver quality products.


Theme Hospital was good too
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
4,638
Strap Yourselves In Codex+ Now Streaming!
RGE said:
I think you guys should embrace innovation a bit more. Sure, his new game will probably suck as much as his other games, but at least he's trying some new stuff rather than sucking in the same way all the time. It's like Jackass the Game Development, isn't it?

Uh, not when innovation means dumbing games so much that even my dog would be able to play them....
 

max

Novice
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
9
Typical RPG time spent on combat

Like it or not, combat is at least half of a role-playing experience, probably more like 70%

bioware_2.jpg



BZZZZT, WRONG AGAIN MOLYNEUX!

PS. I know this 'time spent' report is from Bioware, but at least they do actual user focused testing on their games instead of using made up figures... In fact, I'll bet that for a classic (non-Bioware) RPG the combat element would be even less significant.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,890
Location
Lulea, Sweden
I love the figure for "optional minigames". 0 minutes :D

Molyneux seems to cater to people who don't like games at all or people who says "i don't understand my computer". the rest actually want a game where complexity in combat isn't based around ... Well who do I talk too? he is just fucking nuts.
 

Globbi

Augur
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
342
Maybe he referred to something more of an RPG, like Dungeon Siege.

Anyway, his thinking is simply idiotic. While he considers combat the most important part he wants to dumb it down as much as possible and provide depth with music.

I wonder how will mainstream journalists report on what he says. It's a bit unbelieveable that someone would agree with him, but I guess I'm lying to myself.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
RGE said:
I think you guys should embrace innovation a bit more. Sure, his new game will probably suck as much as his other games, but at least he's trying some new stuff rather than sucking in the same way all the time. It's like Jackass the Game Development, isn't it?

What innovation? By "innovation" he is trying to dumb down the game to new, unimaginable hights so it would sell even more. Hes not innovating and his not making any real games, he is just following the orders of Microsoft to milk as much money as possible.

He is a fucking subhuman driven by greed alone. Even Todd and Pete, though powerful demons that they are, are nothing compared to him. His sole desire, as he stated, is to sell 5 milions of copies, not to make a piece of art that would be played after decades of its release.
 

Cycloptis

Scholar
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
127
Location
Dead
It makes you wonder how his team feels about being associated with this nutcase.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Syndicate_screenshot.png


I weep. That was a *good* game. It was so good I will use my infamous hyphens. It was -great-.

Maybe he has a tumor. :(
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Jasede said:
I weep. That was a *good* game. It was so good I will use my infamous hyphens. It was -great-.

Maybe he has a tumor. :(
It is. I played it just a few days ago.

I subscribe to the hypothesis that the environment at Bullfrog and the input of other developers had a significant effect on the design of the great games he worked on.


RGE said:
It's like Jackass the Game Development, isn't it?
Nah, his ideas ain't even funny anymore.
 

Vival

Erudite
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
230
Remember, this is a role playing game; all the different weapons have different music sounds and give a very individual feel to the combat

Maybe it let's you play the role of a weapon. That would be even more original than a dog-user interface.
 

Keldryn

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
1,053
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Re: Typical RPG time spent on combat

max said:
Like it or not, combat is at least half of a role-playing experience, probably more like 70%

bioware_2.jpg



BZZZZT, WRONG AGAIN MOLYNEUX!

PS. I know this 'time spent' report is from Bioware, but at least they do actual user focused testing on their games instead of using made up figures... In fact, I'll bet that for a classic (non-Bioware) RPG the combat element would be even less significant.

That graph looks about right for a Bioware title.

I can't agree that "classic" RPGs would have an even less significant combat element. They would have a way lower dialogue element, and if they have any sort of random battles, that combat element would skyrocket. Molyneux may very well be talking more about console RPGs, and in that case random battles take up way more time than exploration. Unless the game in question is Xenosaga, in which case you can spend 45 consecutive minutes of not having to touch the controller at all because you're watching cutscene after cutscene (which he also criticizes in his article).

The vast amount of time spent in "exploration mode" could be positive or negative. If It's a game like Ultima VII, Okami, Fallout, or a Legend of Zelda where the world is filled with interesting things to see and do, then that's awesome. If it's like Daggerfall where the world is utterly devoid of anything worth seeing, then it's definitely a negative. I love free-form exploration in games, but there had better be cool and hidden things to find, or it's simply a waste of time.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
Whoever said that satire died when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace prize was wrong. Sure, it took a body-blow, but satire has now been well and truly wiped out by Peter Molyneux.
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
Patron
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,871,810
Location
On Patroll
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I don't think the guy is nuts. He's just thinking creatively with the limitations of the mass market. Most games coming out nowadays have some level of retardation to cater to the mass market. But it's badly done, it doesn't really embrace the mass market because publishers and developers also want to cater to the hardcore, and want to keep a semblance of dignity. They don't want to be overtly seen as doing stuff for the lowest common denominator, they want to be the leaders in the game market, the elite, and want to maintain some self-respect. All in all, they don't go all the way. But if you really want the mass market in your pockets, you have to make a game they'll like. And for this, I think Molyneux is doing all the right things. It's retarded, backwards, but it's the genius kind of backwards.

The man is embracing the mass market mindset and being innovative within its limitations. People just want to start the game and get instant rewards and coolness. RPGs are, for the masses, nothing but an ego trip. The more ego the better. So Molyneux is right when he says that games are mechanically too difficult, because he is considering the masses. They want fun, and learning something complicated before the fun starts is just too much of a hassle. That's why he is focusing on accessiblity. His combat system is accessible, stupidly and simply so, but that is what is asked for by the masses. Then, he adds a motivation for the player to learn how to control the combat better: added coolness! The perfect motivation for a guy on an ego trip. I mean, just add some rythm to your pushing of the button, and you get music, and effects, and camera cuts. The shit is ON! Instant reward. Same is done for death, you don't want to die, because the consequense is decreased coolness. But if you do die, it's not so bad, because you can escape the terrible outcome by paying the ferryman. Accessiblity wins. Nobody on an ego trip wants to play a game where you coud somehow become less cool. The genius of Molyneux's approach is undeniable. I bet that if the development goes well, this is a hit.


So what does this tell us? It tells us that the more you want to please the masses, the more retarded the product has to become. It's not Molyneux that's nuts, it's the whole fucking world that has flushed its brains down the drain. Sad state of affairs, but hasn't it always been like that? Only it's now becoming apparent in computer games, that are being more and more directed towards the mainstream and shuffled in with the console. Long live the indies, I guess. The only really sad thing is that minds with potential are using their creativity to keep the dumb ones dumb instead of enlightening them up a bit. But hey, it's entertainement, where everyone just wants to turn their brains off and have some fun, right? The entertainement business has taken the place of the church of old.


This is all just another failure of the free market. :lol:
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone
I actually like Molyneux because he's not afraid to develop new concepts. In fact he's one of the last few people in the industry who still dream about new innovative gaming mechanics. Problem is that he's generally really off base with what some of us currently jaded folks think about Role Playing games and the direction of gaming as a whole. It's almost an entirely different medium once he's done fiddling with it, but that's ok. As I get ready to dawn my first Might and Magic game, as there's simply nothing left that appeals to me on the market, some of his ideas are interesting even if blatantly wrong in some cases.

Still, a lot of RPG's are shit. There's more bad apples in this basket then good. I don't see how we can argue that differently. The amount of old video games that a lot of people play is becoming a trend. Most of my gamer friends turn to games that are decades old over this new wave of bullshit because it's just not fun anymore. It's about Technology and Graphics rather then gameplay and mechanics. Thus, since gameplay and mechanics are the core of all roleplaying games, RPG's have taken a back seat. The ratio of Sports, FPS, Racing games to RPG's is completely off balance in terms of modern consoles, and let's face it, that's where the money is at. I'm always astounded by the people who think they can have all aspects of game design. They want it all, but the reality is much different. Design costs Prevent that from happening. You have to balance things out, but gamers are too stupid to understand. Id be curious what a sensible "Hardcore" gamer could design if put in the shoes of Peter Molyneux for a single game. I bet it would be amazing!

Anyway, it's nice to have a developer who isn't afraid of trying out new things, even if said developer is slightly crazy, offbase, and generally wrong about good gaming concepts. Lol, maybe he'll get one of his games right. Not holding my breath.

It's a shame that modern games have become so "Surface" in that what you see is what you get. That's all that's there. No sense in critically thinking about anything, it's all nicely laid out without any mystery. It's games that go beyond the surface, what a lot of older roleplaying games did with character/group progression/design, quest branching/pathing, loot, story, difficulty, etc that give us the "Depth" we've been lacking in this new generation. These games are soulless.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,703
Location
Ingrija
Playing fable was an equivalent of watching gay porn.

Playing fable 2 looks likely to be an equivalent of acting in gay porn.

I'd rather try Oblivion or All-out 3.
 

Section8

Cipher
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
4,321
Location
Wardenclyffe
I'm getting a getting a crazy, "Pink Floyd is me bitches!" Roger Waters vibe from Molyneux. There's this back catalogue of fairly incredible work, of which the main credit is attached to him, but when his ego grows too big and his ideas are left unchecked, they're rubbish. Maybe he's been this raving lunatic all along, and his development teams just took his ludicrous ideas and made them palatable.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
"Remember, this is a role playing game; all the different weapons have different music sounds and give a very individual feel to the combat."
Roleplaeeeeeing? Weapuuuns heeey... Does it mean we will finally be able to fuck these precious swords?! YAY!
And you can do this by clicking the whole ONE button too!

it's quite an emotional thing to see that with everybody laying into you.
Emokids are pleased, Master!
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom