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MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Volourn said:
There's no reason for you to know 100% why the machines invade the ME universe since you only interatc with on eof them, and it has nor eason to tell you since it plans to kill you anyways.

Volly the problem is that ME actually told you why they wanted to kill everything. And the reason was "for the lulz" or let's go a biowarian way: "your brain is too small to understand our reasons".
Why have I compared it to TW's amnesia? Because both felt like a lame excuse.
 

Kaiserin

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4,082
Except camera controls, and world interaction controls are the best ever in any game.
l_49c87534788e03f10723c47428b9d59c.jpg
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,939
"Volly the problem is that ME actually told you why they wanted to kill everything. And the reason was "for the lulz" or let's go a biowarian way: "your brain is too small to understand our reasons"."

Actually, those two reasons are very different. the first implies they do it ebcause they enjoy it. the second implies they have reasons but they aren't going to tell you waht it (they) are.

Not the same thing. Tsk, tsk.
 

Annonchinil

Scholar
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
844
Darth Roxor said:
If you told the citizens to fuck themselves and took the witch with you to fight the beast they wouldn't burn her, but I guess you didn't think there are more solutions to this.

No, actually I reloaded the save file to see a different ending. But you entirely missed the point, the whole scene is retarded. Geralt’s short ‘speech’ makes the villagers feel sad and regretful, then he tells them that he wants a fair trial and then when he is not even 20 meters away they burn her and he does nothing.

Darth Roxor said:
No, the magic made him sleep so Odo could murder him. So hard to understand?


What version did you play? Odo states that Abigail cursed him into killing his brother. The way Geralt saw through this is that his brother was sleeping? Does this make sense to you? Aghhh I will see if I have a save file and take pictures of the stupidity.

Darth Roxor said:
It does mean a real fucking lot, because it stands out among all the rpgs that came out for the last couple of YEARS where all the 'choices' would be Biowarian:
(good) OK, YES, I'LL HELP YOU MY DEAR PEASANT, WE NEED TO SPREAD THE LOVE
(bad) Gtfo
(supahbad) I'll help you... IF YOU PAY ME 50 GOLD! MWAHAHAHA!! ó_ó

Really? In KOTOR I could convince a wookie to murder his best friend because he owns me a life-debt or whatever it’s called. Not all the choices are like that but neither are all the choices in The Witcher fully realized.

Darth Roxor said:
and 'all the characters are walking cliches'? Now this is just beyond stupid, unless you think that the sheer fact that you have a witch in the game it makes it cliche.

What? When did I say that about Abigail? But yes you have a crazy conservative priest who is a hypocrite, a fresh faced new recruit, an aging master… how original.

Darth Roxor said:
And you are saying that as a bad thing?

The violence in God of War games is much better than The Witcher, the finishers look tame and boring.

DraQ you are an idiot. Think of all the literature you studied, in how many of those do the authors try to point out that there is no good and evil? It’s as if you are too retarded to realize that you can’t categorize something into ‘no good and no evil’ or ‘only good and evil’ Look at 1984 or Animal farm, they both have strong amoral elements but they are not about ‘how there is no good or no evil in humanity’ In fact they both have categorization of what is good. Most great books focus on themes like redemption or something like a relationship between a mother and child. All that The Witcher has done so far is take something that is ‘good’ and couple it with something that is ‘evil’ Its certainly not black and white but it does not have any depth to it and nor does it really say anything. What I am basically stating is two things;

1) Having no good or no evil does not grant anything depth. For example the Witcher has racism, but does it state anything about it? Granted I have not played that far but the most logical argument against racism is that we (humans) are fundamentally the same, now this is a fantasy setting where all the races are actually different.

2) Arguing that there is no good and no evil is about as dumb as arguing that that the world is split into good and evil. One is the belief of four year olds and the other of teenage Goths. As an example Cordelia from King Lear was good and nearly perfect (too good for the world really), Lear himself made mistakes from being old and wanting too much love, not from 'ends justify the means' or from being cruel and calculating. He is simply old while the characters from TW rely a lot on juxtaposition and contrast.

I mean what made PS:T a good story? Morte ended up on the pillar becuse he simply lied and that led to soemthing he might not have expected, not because he killed people but at the same time thought he was doing the right thing.
 

DraQ

Arcane
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Annonchinil said:
Darth Roxor said:
No, the magic made him sleep so Odo could murder him. So hard to understand?


What version did you play? Odo states that Abigail cursed him into killing his brother. The way Geralt saw through this is that his brother was sleeping? Does this make sense to you? Aghhh I will see if I have a save file and take pictures of the stupidity.
*facepalm*

Odo says that he killed his brother (due to alleged curse) when he was working in the field, Geralt says that Odo's version doesn't hold water, for a warrior would easily defend himself against Odo if he was awake.


DraQ you are an idiot. blah blah... good and evil?
Thank you for saving me the hassle of showing how retarded are you, but really, saying "I am a moron, forgive my excessive stupidity." would suffice.

That game is devoid of clearly defined and cleanly separated good and evil only enriches it. Witcher isn't devoid of moral choices, but none of them is of the simplistic biowarian kind.
 

Annonchinil

Scholar
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
844
So Odo could only kill his brother in his sleep? As we all know it’s impossible to knife a person when they are not looking...and Odo needed Abigail's help to make his brother sleep? I also remember that the doll was mentioned to look like Odo. The scenarios do not make sense;
-Odo did it alone, but that does not explain the doll
-Odo saught Abigail's help, well this one is just stupid
-Abigail cursed Odo into it, but apparently its impossible to kill a person when they are not looking

Anyways I could not find a save file but here is an example of what you have to deal with in the English Witcher;

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007/11 ... ript-ever/

It’s a lot harder to make sense of things when you are dealing with some situations that are more confusing than that.

As for my point about good & evil

1) Lets see I never stated that the other alternative is to paint the world into entirely black and white. If we use The Forever War as an example, there are two sides fighting each other one of them can be said to be good, but the book is not really about that. Its about the idea that if soldiers fight for five years and then do to the physics of space travel 50 years have passed on earth. When they finally do return they would no longer able to connect and have no choice but to re-enlist, hence the name 'Forever War'. It’s not about painting the world into black and white or that there is no good and evil but about alienation.

2) Two authors with the same theme will come up with work of varying value. Take two idiot 14 year olds and tell one to write a story about good and evil and the other about how there is no good and evil. Both of them will likely suck. That’s why simply going 'there is no good and evil' proves nothing.

3) Many authors have good and evil in their stories. I used King Lear and Shakespeare as an example and yet no one is going to argue that there is no depth to it. The problem is when people think 'good and evil' they think it’s just black vs. white when it does not have to be like that. Look at Crime & Punishment, Rodion’s action was 'evil' and yet no one thinks Dostoyevsky believed that the world was black vs. white. Also how can anyone forget Lord of the Rings? It’s good vs. evil and yet is still considered to be a great book with dept.

4) I did not mean that the Witcher is devoid of complexity. What I meant was that it was devoid of ideas and themes. I also acknowledged that I only am at Act 2 and am waiting for the enchanted edition. My original point was that simply going; 'there is no good and evil, therefore its good' is a poor argument. I also stated that juxtaposition is a poor for of development. To use the Abigail example, is it really a moral choice or is it one based on information? For example Odo, Priest and the bald guy are in it for money or power, Abigail might be an evil cultist and probably also likes money, between what two aspects of morality are you choosing when both sides represent a similar one? You could argue that it is about justice but the option that leads to a trial is simply a joke. Also you never fully find out the truth to anything, if you read the lengthy 'is Abigail evil?' thread in The Witcher forums, most of the posts are about trying to make sense of what has happened, not discussions on morality. Now complexity and mystery are not automatically exclusive to plots with 'grey morality.' Going back to Abigail it just seems like she was better developed than the others and you can say that because she was mistreated she had a better 'reason' than them for doing what she did. But the mystery is not why the characters did what they did but is instead clearly focused on what they actually did.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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Annonchinil said:
-Odo saught Abigail's help, well this one is just stupid
-Abigail cursed Odo into it, but apparently its impossible to kill a person when they are not looking

Why is the first one stupid? He knew he couldn't do it alone, so he didn't supernatural help.
As for the second - do you imagine a murder attempt by a clumsy fat guy such as Odo, who probably ever used his knife only to cut vegetables?

the option that leads to a trial is simply a joke.

Huh? And why is that? You have a mob of uneducated, savage peasants led by a fanatic, self-righteous preacher - do you really expect them to offer a WITCH who is supposed to be the source of all their problems to have fair trial by them, just because a wandering mutant outsider told them to do so?
 

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