Cow Guru, I too have been banned.

[Lumpy]

But the Russian screenshots did look worse than the final game did.

 

[Darkflame]

But the Russian screenshots did look worse than the final game did.

Hardly. Tell me how this looks worse than the game?
http://www.rpgcodex.com/screenshot.php? ... nian01.jpg

Or this?
http://www.rpgcodex.com/screenshot.php? ... kelf01.jpg

Gee, the face in this one doesn't even have that "radiant" bright yellow glow!
http://www.rpgcodex.com/screenshot.php? ... camp01.jpg

 

[Blahblah Talks]

So just because the screens weren't "doctored up" like the demo video, they are illegal?

No, they are illegal because they are the IP of a company which has not authorized their distribution. Regardless of whether or not they represent an accurate depiction of the final product, the particular piece of software from which those screen shots were generated belonged to Bethesda, and they were under no obligation to release it to the public. Even if it wasn't "leaked," they still have the right to forbid the Russian company from releasing any screenshots or other information to the public. And Bethesda would probably be well within their rights to sue any entity who continued to publish them. Would we be having this conversation if it was source code rather than screen shots?

 

[Darkflame]

So just because the screens weren't "doctored up" like the demo video, they are illegal?

No, they are illegal because they are the IP of a company which has not authorized their distribution. Regardless of whether or not they represent an accurate depiction of the final product, the particular piece of software from which those screen shots were generated belonged to Bethesda, and they were under no obligation to release it to the public. Even if it wasn't "leaked," they still have the right to forbid the Russian company from releasing any screenshots or other information to the public. And Bethesda would probably be well within their rights to sue any entity who continued to publish them. Would we be having this conversation if it was source code rather than screen shots?

Why would Bethesda give their product to a Russian company if they didn't expect it to then be released? Russia is one of the countries with the least enforcement of IP laws.

If a lawsuit were to ensue, it would be Bethesda's burden to show that they took necessary precautions to protect news of their product. Sending it to the Russians doesn't exactly make it seem like they thought the obvious repercutions through very well.

 

[Lumpy]

So just because the screens weren't "doctored up" like the demo video, they are illegal?

No, they are illegal because they are the IP of a company which has not authorized their distribution. Regardless of whether or not they represent an accurate depiction of the final product, the particular piece of software from which those screen shots were generated belonged to Bethesda, and they were under no obligation to release it to the public. Even if it wasn't "leaked," they still have the right to forbid the Russian company from releasing any screenshots or other information to the public. And Bethesda would probably be well within their rights to sue any entity who continued to publish them. Would we be having this conversation if it was source code rather than screen shots?

Why would Bethesda give their product to a Russian company if they didn't expect it to then be released? Russia is one of the countries with the least enforcement of IP laws.

If a lawsuit were to ensue, it would be Bethesda's burden to show that they took necessary precautions to protect news of their product. Sending it to the Russians doesn't exactly make it seem like they thought the obvious repercutions through very well.

What bullshit.
So you're saying that Bethesda shouldn't have sent the game to the russians to translate the game into russian, and it's their fault that the translation team gave the game to some RPG site?

 

[Darkflame]

So just because the screens weren't "doctored up" like the demo video, they are illegal?

No, they are illegal because they are the IP of a company which has not authorized their distribution. Regardless of whether or not they represent an accurate depiction of the final product, the particular piece of software from which those screen shots were generated belonged to Bethesda, and they were under no obligation to release it to the public. Even if it wasn't "leaked," they still have the right to forbid the Russian company from releasing any screenshots or other information to the public. And Bethesda would probably be well within their rights to sue any entity who continued to publish them. Would we be having this conversation if it was source code rather than screen shots?

Why would Bethesda give their product to a Russian company if they didn't expect it to then be released? Russia is one of the countries with the least enforcement of IP laws.

If a lawsuit were to ensue, it would be Bethesda's burden to show that they took necessary precautions to protect news of their product. Sending it to the Russians doesn't exactly make it seem like they thought the obvious repercutions through very well.

What bullshit.
So you're saying that Bethesda shouldn't have sent the game to the russians to translate the game into russian, and it's their fault that the translation team gave the game to some RPG site?

Not quite... I said that Bethesda wouldn't win if they filed suit against the company for posting screenshots, thus implying that posting those screenshots is hardly illegal.

However now that I think about it, I'm not so sure that's true. Because initially I was under the impression that the screenshots constitute a "trade secret" (where, if taken to court, Bethesda would indeed bear the burden of showing that they took reasonable precautions in safeguarding the screenshots, and that the Russian company had gone out of their way to bypass such safeguards in making the screens public)...

But one could also argue that the screens do not constitute a "trade secret" since they are hardly advantageous to Bethesda (it isn't the source-code, for instance, which would be a trade secret because it is advantageous to Bethesda to keep it secret). So on second thought, I would consider the screens subject to US copyright law (which as we all know Russia doesn't abide by).

Without knowing all the details, I'd still imagine Bethesda would lose if they brought this to court, which would certainly explain why they have yet to do so. So I would be hardpressed to deem these screenshots "illegal" without more evidence, and given Bethesda's track record in the honesty department, their cries of "illegal" bear little relavance in their decision to autocensor rpgcodex.

 

[Lumpy]

I doubt any company would sue a site for hosting unapproved screenshots. Nevertheless, it was their decision to ban links to those screenshots, and it wasn't wrong in any way.
Besides, I don't think the Codex hosting those screenshots had anything to do with the banning of Codex links on ESF.
I suppose the tubgirls/goatses might also have something to do with it, considering that the ESF is E-rated by the ESRB.

 

[Claw]

ya RLY

 

[Dread]

Override's account hasn't been banned. Clearing his cookies should do the trick.

Hmmm -- and the very 1st thing I did when I couldn't access my account? Like to hazard a guess? Yep, the very same thing I do whenever I can't access someplace... clear down my cookies

So, clearing my cookies didn't help last week, and it hasn't helped today. Care to hazard another guess as to why I can't access my account?

Not that I'm overly bothered: the noise to signal ratio at the ESF is way too high for any sane person. And, even if my account... magically.. became reactivated, I won't be bothering with the ESF until the asinine autocensor decision vis-a-vis the Codex is reversed.

No need for the attitude, I could really care less whether or not you have an open account or not. Just thought I would chime in and let you know that it isn't closed.

If this is in fact your account: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... user=26436

It has never been warned nor has it been suspended for anytime, but if you feel the need to keep up the "I have been Banned too" attitude for your friends then its no skin off my back. Just trying to help out.

 

[Inziladun]

no wai!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Without knowing all the details, I'd still imagine Bethesda would lose if they brought this to court, which would certainly explain why they have yet to do so. So I would be hardpressed to deem these screenshots "illegal" without more evidence, and given Bethesda's track record in the honesty department, their cries of "illegal" bear little relavance in their decision to autocensor rpgcodex.

Even if they did sue and won, there's no way they could collect any winnings or even force the Russian site to do anything. A U.S. civil court has no jurisdiction whatsoever over anything in Russia.

 

[OverrideB1]

Override's account hasn't been banned. Clearing his cookies should do the trick.

Hmmm -- and the very 1st thing I did when I couldn't access my account? Like to hazard a guess? Yep, the very same thing I do whenever I can't access someplace... clear down my cookies

So, clearing my cookies didn't help last week, and it hasn't helped today. Care to hazard another guess as to why I can't access my account?

Not that I'm overly bothered: the noise to signal ratio at the ESF is way too high for any sane person. And, even if my account... magically.. became reactivated, I won't be bothering with the ESF until the asinine autocensor decision vis-a-vis the Codex is reversed.

No need for the attitude, I could really care less whether or not you have an open account or not. Just thought I would chime in and let you know that it isn't closed.

If this is in fact your account: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... user=26436

It has never been warned nor has it been suspended for anytime, but if you feel the need to keep up the "I have been Banned too" attitude for your friends then its no skin off my back. Just trying to help out.

My attittude is no attitude -- that's exactly how I feel.

Even if I could access my ESF account -- which, miraculously, I now can (and one has to wonder exactly how that happened since I've twice cleared my cookies and got nowhere, done nothing for a few days and, lo, my account is suddenly active again: it's a freaking miracle I tells ya!) -- until the twats that administer the board retract their puerile decision to autocensor any mention of the Codex.

I don't care that links to the Codex are verboten -- this site has never exactly been "safe for work". But to lump any mention of the site in with the list of banned words is beneath contempt -- and the chosen replacement just shows how childish and vindictive the site admins really are.

And, FYI, I don't have any reason to lie about my ESF account. I couldn't access it, clearing cookies didn't work, Codexers are being banned left, right, and centre for no reason whatsoever. You do the math, 'cause it ain't exactly rocket science to come to the conclusion I did. That I can, all of a sudden, and with bugger all effort on my part, now access my account only deepens my original suspicion that somebody, somewhere, is playing a game of 'les buggers risables'

 

[hiciacit]

I don't think Bethesda folk were banned from coming here after that either. While MrSmileyFaceDude's last post is January 12 (a day after the screenshots went up), Kathode was still posting here until June. Vault Dweller probably knows more about that then I do though. The short answer is, the Codex doesn't cow-tow to developers and we're being punished for that.

He probably forgat to use his alt. Kathode's second last post was made Januari 11.

 

[Monica21]

And, FYI, I don't have any reason to lie about my ESF account. I couldn't access it, clearing cookies didn't work, Codexers are being banned left, right, and centre for no reason whatsoever. You do the math, 'cause it ain't exactly rocket science to come to the conclusion I did.

While I somewhat sympathize with the issues you raised, I just think you're wrong about codexers being banned. I use the same forum name here that I do there, and I have no warnings, and have had rather civil conversations with moderators and devs and no threat of a ban. I express my dislike of Oblivion repeatedly. Vault Dweller is the most prominent codexer posting on the ESF and he still seems to have an active account. So does whitemithrandir. So, people are either lying about their accounts (which wouldn't be the first time) or there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. People do harass the moderators and do call them names and continuing shit like that will get you warned and/or banned.

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

 

[Lumpy]

And, FYI, I don't have any reason to lie about my ESF account. I couldn't access it, clearing cookies didn't work, Codexers are being banned left, right, and centre for no reason whatsoever. You do the math, 'cause it ain't exactly rocket science to come to the conclusion I did.

While I somewhat sympathize with the issues you raised, I just think you're wrong about codexers being banned. I use the same forum name here that I do there, and I have no warnings, and have had rather civil conversations with moderators and devs and no threat of a ban. I express my dislike of Oblivion repeatedly. Vault Dweller is the most prominent codexer posting on the ESF and he still seems to have an active account. So does whitemithrandir. So, people are either lying about their accounts (which wouldn't be the first time) or there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. People do harass the moderators and do call them names and continuing shit like that will get you warned and/or banned.

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

Perhaps codexers are being banned left and right because they can't understand the concept of a forum where you can't say whatever you want, and insult anyone whenever you want, immediately labeling it as 'fascist', etc. Freedom of speech is good, but ESF is an official forum, so it can't afford having people insult each other, no matter how much they deserve it.
Whenever I see a thread about something related to the codex, like "Oblivion Propaganda" or "Age of Decadence", it contains a fair number of insults and auto-censor bypasses. Which don't appear in threads where forum regulars, who like or dislike Oblivion, argue. And this might also explain why said posters who dislike Oblivion don't get banned, while codexers do.

 

[OverrideB1]

And, FYI, I don't have any reason to lie about my ESF account. I couldn't access it, clearing cookies didn't work, Codexers are being banned left, right, and centre for no reason whatsoever. You do the math, 'cause it ain't exactly rocket science to come to the conclusion I did.

While I somewhat sympathize with the issues you raised, I just think you're wrong about codexers being banned. I use the same forum name here that I do there, and I have no warnings, and have had rather civil conversations with moderators and devs and no threat of a ban. I express my dislike of Oblivion repeatedly. Vault Dweller is the most prominent codexer posting on the ESF and he still seems to have an active account. So does whitemithrandir. So, people are either lying about their accounts (which wouldn't be the first time) or there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. People do harass the moderators and do call them names and continuing shit like that will get you warned and/or banned.

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

As you know, I use the same forum name there as here. So I'm not exactly hiding my light under a bushel when I go to the ESF.

As to the playing of 'buggers risable' -- all I can say is that I tried to access the ESF, couldn't. Cleared my cookies -- which is always the first thing I try -- and still couldn't gain access. I come here to find a thread by people who have Codex and ESF accounts stating they've been banned, often without warning or cause. What is my natural reaction to that fact, coupled with the fact I can not access the ESF?

I don't harrass mods, or admin, and only call people an idiot when the label is apt. I'm vigourous in my dislike of Oblivion, and point out it's many, many failings in threads where there seems to be a blindness concerning what a RPG is all about, or when purblind idiots rave about its wonders and totally disregard its failings.

Needless to say, this latest episode of fuck-wittedness has convinced me that it's far better to avoid the ESF for the sake of my sanity and temper. Too much noise, not enough signal. Far better to stay over here where people have an understanding of exactly what a RPG is than over there where it equates to riding around on horseback, dismounting, and then hitting stuff with a sharpened lump of metal before rinsing and repeating... ad infinitum.

@Lumpy:
I'm perfectly aware of the social conventions at the ESF, and never troll, needlessly flame, or swear -- except when the idiotic auto-censor does something stupid like converting "snigger" to "sI am a racist". Which, coincidentally, is the only time I've suggested to an admin that perhaps they should take courses in the Queen's English before they start fucking around censoring stuff. And before you have an "AH-HA" moment, that was sometime last year and neither earned me a warning, a ban, or -- come to think of it -- an apology for the inference inherent in the auto-change.

 

[Lumpy]

I don't harrass mods, or admin, and only call people an idiot when the label is apt.

Which is still too much for the ESF.

 

[Monica21]

As to the playing of 'buggers risable' -- all I can say is that I tried to access the ESF, couldn't. Cleared my cookies -- which is always the first thing I try -- and still couldn't gain access. I come here to find a thread by people who have Codex and ESF accounts stating they've been banned, often without warning or cause. What is my natural reaction to that fact, coupled with the fact I can not access the ESF?

I'm not questioning whether you could access the ESF or not, I'm only stating that people do lie about their accounts, for whatever reason. Since moderators are not allowed to discuss other users' accounts, you only ever hear one side. You never know the backstory behind why someone was banned. You only ever know what the user is telling you. I know users lie. I don't know if users are specifically lying in these cases, but I do know that codexers are not being targeted just for being codexers, or I wouldn't still be posting in both places.

 

[Darkflame]

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

You do?

 

[OverrideB1]

I wasn't having a dig Monica21 -- I was simply stating my experience and the conclusion I drew when what I'd experienced trying to get onto the ESF was equated to this thread. I still think the PTB over at the ESF are playing silly buggers with the accounts of known Codexers -- I can think of no other reason why my account would be inaccessible and then -- suddenly and without any action on my part other than posting about it here -- be accessible again.

We already know the admins at the ESF are puerile -- one only has to witness the 'Codex' = 'I love Oblivion' nonsense to realise that -- so Les Buggers Risable with certain accounts is not a game I'd put it past them to play. Whether they are, or not? Sodomy non Sapiens

Besides which, as I've stated before in this thread, my ability to access the ESF is a moot point. Perhaps, when they decide to run the hyperbole-engine that is their PR mouth for FO3, I might return. (If they nerf it like I suspect they're going to, then I will most definately make my opinions known... forcibly... and in no uncertain terms)

 

[Monica21]

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

You do?

Oh, indeed. Believe it or not, those quotes have shown up on Oblivion General at least a half dozen times.

 

[Darkflame]

To be honest, moderators have better ways to spend their time than to track down codexers and ban them on site. Just like I have better ways to spend my time than reading a multi-page thread titled "Which dev lied the most?"

You do?

Oh, indeed. Believe it or not, those quotes have shown up on Oblivion General at least a half dozen times.

lol, of course I believe it; I'm the one who assembled the list in the first place and posted it there, and each time I do so I get banned. Not quite sure what rules these quotes break, seeing as how every word comes straight from a Dev's mouth. Regardless, I certainly think people should be held accountable for selling claims that they can't deliver, and potential fans have a right to know before getting ripped off.

 

[Dread]

My attittude is no attitude -- that's exactly how I feel.

Even if I could access my ESF account -- which, miraculously, I now can (and one has to wonder exactly how that happened since I've twice cleared my cookies and got nowhere, done nothing for a few days and, lo, my account is suddenly active again: it's a freaking miracle I tells ya!) -- until the twats that administer the board retract their puerile decision to autocensor any mention of the Codex.

I don't care that links to the Codex are verboten -- this site has never exactly been "safe for work". But to lump any mention of the site in with the list of banned words is beneath contempt -- and the chosen replacement just shows how childish and vindictive the site admins really are.

And, FYI, I don't have any reason to lie about my ESF account. I couldn't access it, clearing cookies didn't work, Codexers are being banned left, right, and centre for no reason whatsoever. You do the math, 'cause it ain't exactly rocket science to come to the conclusion I did. That I can, all of a sudden, and with bugger all effort on my part, now access my account only deepens my original suspicion that somebody, somewhere, is playing a game of 'les buggers risables'

Understandable, I simply felt like posting here to let you know that I saw nothing on your account that would cause it to be banned. No other reason than to try and be helpful.

 

[Proweler]

VD's message that "any mention of the Codex will be deleted" I'm pretty sure that's not the case anymore.

Actually that one's still in place, I had two messages deleted recently. They took them away without a word so I didn't even notice untill I checked back. Bloody Gestapo.

 

[Monica21]

VD's message that "any mention of the Codex will be deleted" I'm pretty sure that's not the case anymore.

Actually that one's still in place, I had two messages deleted recently. They took them away without a word so I didn't even notice untill I checked back. Bloody Gestapo.

I meant that I'm not sure about people getting banned for actual reasons, although, I should probably retract that. The "I love Oblivion" thing is a lot of nonsense and is unbelievably petty, but who knows what else is happening?