RTS Creating the ultimate RTS

[luj1]

You need to look at what BW did in endgame, 200unit count wasn't a hard cap because carriers and reavers had their own units too and arbiter recall would result in plenty on screen also.
Then it becomes a sprite vs. polygon problem how you deal with lighting because former doesn't really allow it and you might not want to go all-in on latter because it'd slow to a crawl. It's not easy, btw same holds for ARPG that went stupid with "pack"-s.

Are you suggesting a lower cap is better?

 

[tritosine2k]

...

Are you suggesting a lower cap is better?

BW is etalon and you either can't match it or it will have just as much 2.5D sprite so it doesn't really count 3D anyhow.

ARPG is also chock full of sprite and doesn't look good at all.

 

[Storyfag]

Ammo supply for units, like in Earth 2150? Also, persisting army like in the same game. Persisting bases in conquered territories like in Emperor: Battle for Dune.

 

[Jaedar]

Seeing only one mention of good pathfinding is disgusting.

I am torn on this.

On the one hand, having units get stuck on eachother, or get stuck on the environment, or taking 5x as long going places as they should all suck.

But on the other hand, I feel that having nigh perfect pathfinding is what makes sc2 depend so very heavily on massive deathballs. Because bad pathfinding kinda means that you get the dynamism of having small but nimble armies and big but hard to move armies.

 

[Gahbreeil]

Red Alert 2!

Well, Company of Heroes covers all of that doesn't it? Still, a hot Cold War as the setting?

 

[luj1]

Because bad pathfinding kinda means that you get the dynamism of having small but nimble armies and big but hard to move armies.

True

 

[Beans00]

stuff

"Units should be able to gain ranks"

Agree, but it should be limited. I think the way kknd did it was best. Units turn blue then red, gives them a bonus without making them retarded OP. In kknd it even changed their voice.

"Global powers "

I would say I disagree with this. Maybe for single player it's fine, I've never had a moment in RTS multiplayer where someone hit me/I hit someone with a god ability or a nuke and said 'gee this is fun'.

"Neutral units"

Sort of agree, it can be interesting. Then you had games like war wind where the Neutral units were a bigger threat than the opponents. Or the meta in WC3 being 'farm creeps until you're level 10'.

"Take and hold "

I would say this should be optional on maps.

"Cover "

Not sure I agree on this one. It's hard to balance that type of map interactivity.

"Attack types"

Agree, but I don't have a problem with specific counter units like Pikemen and Skirmishers in age of empires 2

"Reloading system"

Can't think of an RTS where this was implemented. Not sure if RTS lends itself to this type of gameplay unless it's very small in scope.

"Units should have memorable voice lines"

work work

'Units should be readable on the battlefield"

Agree, although thats easier in SC and WC because the battles are generally smaller. In aoe/cnc you had a lot more units on the field.

"Memorable unit sounds"

agree

"Factions should be radically different, yet balanced"

Agree

"No hero units or RPG elements"

Hard agree on this.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Agree, but I don't have a problem with specific counter units like Pikemen and Skirmishers in age of empires 2

That is actually an utterly labyrinthian clusterfuck of multiple damage and armour types resulting in a ton of weird interactions. It's been steadily getting cleaned up over the last couple years but you had shit like camels taking extra damage from towers because towers did bonus damage vs ships and camels used that armour type. Damage vs buildings is still especially opaque. Do not want.

On the subject of creeps- I always liked the sandworms in Dune 2. Making resource gathering risky and require some attention is a good idea I think, at least for one faction.

Also- the ability to run over infantry with tanks or other large vehicles. Dovetails nicely with that whole 'memorable sound clips' thing.

 

[luj1]

On the subject of creeps- I always liked the sandworms in Dune 2. Making resource gathering risky and require some attention is a good idea I think, at least for one faction.

Yeah that's like Visceroids in Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun

 

[BadassNonbinaryPrincess]

I like the Tiberium fields that the harvesters had to dig up the green crystals and precious blue. And if troops went in they would get injured by it and if they died they could turn into a chrome blob creature that was kinda dangerous.

 

[Eisen]

No hero units or RPG elements

The title says it all. We all know this is decline.

I would agree but Warlords Battlecry is the most fun RTS/RPG i've played, although i consider it more an RPG than RTS

 

[deama]

The base building of stronghold would be good, especially seeing your own peasants wonder around doing stuff.

What about battle for middle earth? Anything good can be salvaged from there? I believe it had squad based units, except for heroes and special units like ogres. It also had god powers? Or am I misremembering that?
The base building I remember being meh though. The landscape design/aesthetic wasn't the best either.

There was also that interesting RTS from early 2000s I think, war zero? Zero war? Original War? Something like that. It was kinda like myth and myth2 but more RTS, and I believe they had the units gain levels and specialise more than something like tiberian sun, almost like each unit was a hero.

Definitely camera controls of SupCommander or the like. I really hate it when RTS games just force you into a specific zoom level.

Also a good campaign with varying/interesting missions.

 

[luj1]

What about battle for middle earth? Anything good can be salvaged from there?

Nutmeg believes so

 

[luj1]

Guys any thoughts on Ground Control 2? I really liked that game, it's a little underrated IMO.

 

[luj1]

This game is $0.69 on Steam right now, by the way. Cheaper than Redaxium.

 

[The Nameless One]

Guys any thoughts on Ground Control 2? I really liked that game, it's a little underrated IMO.

Bruv that's an RTT not an RTS.

Anyways, to the point: A great RTS would be a mix between C&C 3 and Earth 2150, without the latters jank.

 

[Dark Souls II]

Two ways to make a good RTS in the current year:

- make a hypermodern, realistic game focused on drone warfare, EW, artillery, missiles, mines etc.

- just give up, make the most generic Warcraft II-esque RTS that's just elfpussy vs orcpussy

 

[luj1]

Bruv that's an RTT not an RTS.

So are most RTS, then.

 

[The Nameless One]

Bruv that's an RTT not an RTS.

So are most RTS, then.

RTT lacks base building, resource management and focuses solely on micro management. The meta is small and is based solely on the units management.

 

[Lagi]

"Units should be able to gain ranks"
this is good because its promote preservation of units.
could be bad if experienced vastly overwhelm greenhorn units (any MMO rpg allow you to taste this in pvp). Also in Tzar it leads to cheese stuff like training on dummies to have powerful army, instead gaining xp from combat.

"Neutral units"
Neutrals are great map decorations. Would be neat to be able to gain their favour, intead only being seen as enemies.

"Cover"
Cover could also hide your units. Grant them invisibility (till they not attack).

"Attack types"
and armour/size types. This would have to fit the game. F.ex. in space RTS there could be bio, mech, energy... hard/fragile (aircraft)... small / big.
While in medieval setting: heavy armoured or not (different weapons - mace is generally worse, but do well vs armored knights compare to sword that is useless), mounted, on foot, flying + obvious magic/fire/elemental etc

"Units should be readable on the battlefield"
limit zoom out. or fixed camera.

"No hero units or RPG elements"
Hero units in Warwind (this game is trash, but have some clever ideas) were obtained when player was losing. Neat rubber band mechanic, as difference in player skills tend to end games prematurely.
"just get gut noob"
Not sure if you realize, but towers (defensive structures) are rubber band mechanic too. That force the rushing player to tech up to siege equipment. Otherwise, RTS games will end in minutes.

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"Total Annihilation / Supreme Commander RTS lineage"
Loathe conga lines gameplay with almost no-micro (and i generally dont like micro, APM etc).

but this games have such a lovely scope - water, submarine, land, crawling over mountains etc. compare to limited games like Godsworn.

Also BAR UI is a masterpiece. Learning new ways to control your units there is an absolutely brilliant experience.

Recycling (resurrecting) corpses. Shooting resources (plasma guns, D-gun use your energy as ammo).

Water gameplay. Nukes gameplay (counter nukes).
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"Myth and Myth 2: Soulblighter RTS lineage (I remember they had some cool features)"

Gore.

Competent melee units.

Physics of grenades.

Legendary ambient, narrator voice, and mission fluffs. It is gamified black company (glen cook).

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Here's a thought: Awesome base building.

Building a large, labyrinthe, well-defended base should totally be an option. Not allowing players to build walls or trenches is a mistake, there's a reason that in every single RTS with no walls, players make do anyway and use buildings to improvise some (coff coff Starcraft and Warcraft III). Just let me build a damn wall, Blizzard.

One of my problems with AOM and AOEIII is that building a fortress of a base is simply not as worth as it was in AOE and AOEII.

Some people seem to think Turtling play should be punished like it's a crime against the Heavens, but it should be as valid as anything else.

Another thought: Air units which actually behave like air units that aren't helicopters

Most air units on RTS seem to be essentially helicopters or hoverships - slow flyers which can hover in place. I would love to see something more like Warzone 2100's VTOL units, which do quick attack runs and run back to base. This even creates a niche for an Osprey-style VTOL which can switch between helicopter-mode and plane mode.

I dunno, both radically asymmetric and mostly-symmetric factions work - compare Starcraft vs Age of Empires

...

A sub-faction system could allow for both, allowing the player to choose his sub-faction according to his playstyle.

That's interesting but what are the examples?

I gave it to you, Age of Mythology.

 

[Dr1f7]

the ultimate rts, WC3, already exists

 

[vota DC]

Some EA C&C had reloading system. They used clipsize, delay between shots and then reload.


Also Dark Reign had cool concepts ike units burrowing....they could just use two layer system like armies of exigo to implement this better.