CRPGs with deep character system but simple loot & combat?

[nomask7]

I mean something where your success depends mainly on how good you are at building your characters rather than depending on loot or any sort of grind-to-win, or on tactical combat skills for that matter.

The game would probably have to involve some sort of fast-paced and simple combat but with a party rather than one character. It would probably need level-scaling, at least to some extent, because otherwise you could just grind to win.

It can even have just one-player character if the focus is on character building and the character system is interesting enough.

So far I'm thinking maybe Wizardry 7 and some Japanese Wizardry clones, but I'm not sure these aren't grind-to-win, or that they're all that deep.

Thoughts?

 

[Telengard]

The prime modern example would be Blackguards. Were it not for the puzzle battles, you could power build your way through every fight, and there's no grinding available.

Any game where you can mid-tier wizard blast your way through the entire game also ticks all those boxes, so Dragon Age also qualifies.

 

[nomask7]

The prime modern example would be Blackguards. Were it not for the puzzle battles, you could power build your way through every fight, and there's no grinding available.

Any game where you can mid-tier wizard blast your way through the entire game also ticks all those boxes, so Dragon Age also qualifies.

I was looking for something intelligent, something that requires a lot of testing and experience if you want to succeed at building an optimal party. Like you hear about people having to restart Wizardry 6 multiple times before they have the kind of builds that can get you through the whole game.

I'm not looking to hear about your pet-peeves. This is a thread about games with a focus on deep character systems. If you don't like those kinds of games, there are many other threads here that suit you better.

 

[Viata]

While I can't think one example now, ignore the japanese wiz-clones, they only copy wiz 1~5 and you are not going to find it in them.

 

[octavius]

Wizardry 6.

 

[deuxhero]

Any real time with pause game. The character building options will be huge, but the combat will be impossible to control beyond the broadest strokes.

 

[valcik]

Arcanum.

 

[nomask7]

Any real time with pause game. The character building options will be huge, but the combat will be impossible to control beyond the broadest strokes.

I've played pretty much all the official NWN and BG content, and the character building system in those games is laughably bad and/or boring, at least in the case of any character that isn't a wizard, and even then just too cliche by now to offer much in terms of challenge.

Wizardry 6.

I once played this half-way through. I'm a little wary of playing it again due to the lack of auto-mapping. While I enjoyed mapping it back then, I'm looking for something a little different now.

 

[Lilura]

Temple of Elemental with Co8/TemplePlus, but keeping the lvlcap at 10.

Swordflight for NWN.

Roll with spellcasters and monks. You aren't getting far with shit builds in those campaigns, especially if you don't rely on itemization and crafting.

 

[octavius]

Any real time with pause game. The character building options will be huge, but the combat will be impossible to control beyond the broadest strokes.

Only if you're bad at it.

 

[V_K]

Dragon Wars is probably your best bet - leveling is very slow, so grinding is not an option, and there's very little room for mistake. I don't remember how important loot is, though.
Lords of Xulima probably qualifies too, for similar reasons, although grinding options are much more abundant (and not optional on higher difficulties).

 

[octavius]

Dragon Wars is probably your best bet - leveling is very slow, so grinding is not an option, and there's very little room for mistake. I don't remember how important loot is, though.

Not much. Also no random loot at all, which is why Dragon Wars is not among my favourites.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I guess Drakensang would fit. Competency in combat demands that you understand how the DSA ruleset seems to work. Actual combat can be dealt with by occasional spell flinging and lots of brute force.

 

[DraQ]

So, an RPG that plays itself?

Didn't DN3D teach you anything?

Spoiler

Actually, way too many cRPGs have way too simple loot and combat, but they are dominated by levels rather than builds, so it's even worse.

 

[ragnor]

In Expeditions: Conquistador you can't directly outfit your characters, skills you gave them are more important than the points you allocated for their equipments. There isn't much in character development either but everything depends upon how you use your characters skills and special equipments like traps and barricades so tactical element is strong. Though you want something fast paced, it is a turn based combat game, so it is slow but most combats aren't so big, they won't take much time to finish and there wasn't much need for grind. You can grind some but you definitely don't need to.

 

[Dorateen]

So far I'm thinking maybe Wizardry 7 and some Japanese Wizardry clones, but I'm not sure these aren't grind-to-win, or that they're all that deep.

Thoughts?

The only example I could think of is Demise: Ascension, and that's because of its real-time automated combat. But even there, as you fight more dangerous enemies, you have the ability to pause combat and need to get more tactical.

I don't agree with throwing Crusaders of the Dark Savant into consideration. Wizardry 7 is one of the largest and most complex cRPG in the genre, including combat and loot. Specifically the trap disarming system to get at said loot.

 

[Grauken]

Wizardry 6.

I once played this half-way through. I'm a little wary of playing it again due to the lack of auto-mapping. While I enjoyed mapping it back then, I'm looking for something a little different now.

Play the SNES version, it has automapping and is almost identical to the PC version apart from a few graphical updates

 

[Doktor Best]

Wizardry 6.

I once played this half-way through. I'm a little wary of playing it again due to the lack of auto-mapping. While I enjoyed mapping it back then, I'm looking for something a little different now.

There is a mod that includes automap, works similarily to Eye of the Beholder

http://www.moddb.com/mods/wizardry-6-automap-mod

 

[nomask7]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll be checking out these games.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Two Worlds

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Two Worlds Two too?

 

[nomask7]

Two Worlds

Would be rather interesting if it didn't have all sorts of caps and restrictions on how you can build your character. Still more fun than most games and worth playing. You can do a few relatively interesting things with character building in it.

The best diablo clone I've played is Din's Curse. Apropos of this thread, it has an unusual amount of freedom in character building, I don't mean you can choose between many different but obvious builds, but rather you can do some unexpected things and you have complete freedom regarding where you put your points, like if you want to wait a few levels in the beginning to purchase a high level skill, you can do that but it will take a lot more currency points than low level skills.

Sacred 2 has some fun super builds you can discover, but it has much too much hiking for my taste. Din's Curse is incredibly economical and just beautiful in comparison. You really feel like you're playing an actual game, a gamey game rather than some sort of simulation or loot-gathering hobby.

 

[Lurker King]

JA2, obviously.

 

[aweigh]

Wizardry.

Oh, and also Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Emily]

Drakesang river of time